News Nvidia Reportedly Revamps Ampere Silicon To Stop Ethereum Mining For Good

[btmedic04]

I think it's dubious at best to expect the mining lock to be implemented on the 3060 ti, 3070, 3080 and 3090 skus. If Nvidia does this, they open themselves up to a class action lawsuit from miners. What I foresee Nvidia doing is implementing the lock on the ti series of refresh cards when those are released as they can announce the lock and not be sued for removing an established level of performance.

 

[Giroro]

Why even care about it in the first place? If production was up to snuff, miners and gamers alike should be able to buy cards. I say the problem lies in bots and the website platforms that can be abused, not the hardware.

Because Nvidia can charge WAY more for a mining card than they can charge for a gaming card.

Gamers generally can't justify spending $3k on a scalped 3090 just to have a slightly nicer toy.
If Nvidia nerfed their gaming cards and sold a cut-down 12GB 3090 direct to miners with the same hash rate and slightly higher efficiency for $4k... then they would sell out their entire stock and have the giant industrial miners scratching at the door, begging for more.
Even if they did figure out a way to effectively segment the market like that, it still won't improve gaming availability until crypto crashes again. Nvida would just divert all their silicon to the massively more profitable mining division.

 

[Giroro]

I think it's dubious at best to expect the mining lock to be implemented on the 3060 ti, 3070, 3080 and 3090 skus. If Nvidia does this, they open themselves up to a class action lawsuit from miners. What I foresee Nvidia doing is implementing the lock on the ti series of refresh cards when those are released as they can announce the lock and not be sued for removing an established level of performance.

As far as I know Nvidia doesn't make any marketing claims about the mining performance of their gaming cards so I don't see what they could be sued about. If they come up with a nerfed firmware, then miners don't have to install it. If they come up with nerfed hardware, miners don't have to buy the nerfed skus, even if it's the same type of cards on the market. They can't exactly sneak into a mining farm at night to swap out silicon that they've already sold.

 

[digitalgriffin]

I think it's dubious at best to expect the mining lock to be implemented on the 3060 ti, 3070, 3080 and 3090 skus. If Nvidia does this, they open themselves up to a class action lawsuit from miners. What I foresee Nvidia doing is implementing the lock on the ti series of refresh cards when those are released as they can announce the lock and not be sued for removing an established level of performance.

Blah ha ha ha ha ha ha class action blah ha ha

Does that mean I get to sue ford for only going 125mph on a car that will 160?

You are right. Nerfing existing cards is risky. It's a nuclear option. But any cards released in the future don't have to claim mining support.

They own the product. They get to dictate the performance when you buy it. You are buying into an agreement.

 

[Giroro]

Yeah... I've never been a fan of sloppy seconds.
Wonder how long I'll be able to keep that up...

Miners will buy up warehouses full of anything they can get their hands on, so long as they see profit in it. Old cards are still profitable, they just have to buy a lot more of them to get the same revenue. It's not going to stop until people stop paying them to do whatever mining accomplishes. Launder money, I guess.

 

[Nemesia]

"Stop Ethereum mining for good"

Nice joke.

 

[InvalidError]

Old cards are still profitable, they just have to buy a lot more of them to get the same revenue.

Old cards have much worse hash rate per watt, which is horrible for time to break-even or worse, the difficulty rate thanks to all of the new GPUs coming online could rise too quickly to ever achieve ROI on your new-to-you old GPU. That's why serious miners are willing to pay top dollars for newer GPUs, much faster return on investment despite the inflated up-front cost.

 

[GenericUser]

Actually there is. But if they use the option I think they could use, then it would be a nuclear option and piss off a lot of people if they bought the card for mining purposes. It would render them permanently useless.

Could you elaborate?

 

[Nemesia]

Old cards have much worse hash rate per watt, which is horrible for time to break-even or worse, the difficulty rate thanks to all of the new GPUs coming online could rise too quickly to ever achieve ROI on your new-to-you old GPU. That's why serious miners are willing to pay top dollars for newer GPUs, much faster return on investment despite the inflated up-front cost.

Not for a RTX 3090 or 3080. They are so high priced that you will not make your money back before 10 months.

110MH/s for a RTX 3090. It makes around 275 dollars a month. The card cost 2000+. Takes a year to get your money back. It's ridiculous.

 

[spongiemaster]

It will be the norm until all the new 5-7nm fabs come online and churn out millions more chips per months. Then miners will snatch all of the 5nm stuff they can get their hands on for improved power efficiency while the rest of us get to have reasonably priced 7nm new-in-box oldies miners no longer want.

You know this isn't going to happen. I'll quote you as evidence:

With even the GTX1050 selling at close to double its MSRP today, you would need to look at old-old-old-gen cards (900-series) to start seeing more decent prices.

You have to go back a number a generations to reach semi reasonable pricing. A 4000 series release is not going to lower demand for 3000 series cards, especially if Nvidia lowers/discontinues production of highend 3000 GPU's. If anything, Nvidia will continue producing Ampere and make them all mining cards which they will be able to sell for more than if they were still marketed as gaming cards. That's basically what they are doing now, bringing Turing GPU's back as mining cards.

 

[Nemesia]

You cannot make money by mining right now if you're not buying close to MSRP GPU's.

You cannot buy a 2000/2500 dollars GPU and mine with it. It's totally pointless and you lose money. Even after a year.

It's 1400 dollars for a RTX 3060 TI at 60MH/s. That's 135 dollars a month mining Ethereum. Still 10 months + to repay the RTX 3060TI.

 

[spongiemaster]

You cannot make money by mining right now if you're not buying close to MSRP GPU's.

You cannot buy a 2000/2500 dollars GPU and mine with it. It's totally pointless and you lose money. Even after a year.

It's 1400 dollars for a RTX 3060 TI at 60MH/s. That's 135 dollars a month mining Ethereum. Still 10 months + to repay the RTX 3060TI.

That's not necessarily how the math works. If you're a gamer and were willing to spend $450 on a 3060Ti, then you're only trying recoup the additional cost above what you were already willing to pay. At $1400, it would take about 7 months, which is still a while, but more than 30% less time. If you have no interest in gaming, and only plan to mine, then you do have to use the entire cost as your break even point.

If you could actually find a 3090 for "only" $2500, you'd recoup the cost above MSRP in only 2 to 3 months right now.

 

[Nemesia]

That's not necessarily how the math works. If you're a gamer and were willing to spend $450 on a 3060Ti, then you're only trying recoup the additional cost above what you were already willing to pay. At $1400, it would take about 7 months, which is still a while, but more than 30% less time. If you have no interest in gaming, and only plan to mine, then you do have to use the entire cost as your break even point.

If you could actually find a 3090 for "only" $2500, you'd recoup the cost above MSRP in only 2 to 3 months right now.

You're right. If you pay 2500 for a RTX 3090 that's 1000 dollars over MSRP and with a RTX 3090 it seems you can mine around 350 dollars a month with it depending on the pool etc obviously. So yeah 3 months. It's not bad but I seriously think buying RTX 3060TI at 60MH/s at 450 dollars would be a lot better but we can't find them at 450 dollars unfortunately.

I'd like to try a small mining rig myself but here in Canada that's like "you want a GPU? Give me your right arm".

 

[InvalidError]

If anything, Nvidia will continue producing Ampere and make them all mining cards which they will be able to sell for more than if they were still marketed as gaming cards.

While Nvidia may be attempting to foist old GPUs on miners, Ampere is still the preferred mining GPU due to better power efficiency. The only reason Nvidia is able to sell Turing to miners is because it cannot come close to meeting demand with what it can currently get out of Samsung.

That hopefully won't be the case anymore once the upcoming round of new 5-7nm fabs come online.

 

[sizzling]

You're right. If you pay 2500 for a RTX 3090 that's 1000 dollars over MSRP and with a RTX 3090 it seems you can mine around 350 dollars a month with it depending on the pool etc obviously. So yeah 3 months. It's not bad but I seriously think buying RTX 3060TI at 60MH/s at 450 dollars would be a lot better but we can't find them at 450 dollars unfortunately.

I'd like to try a small mining rig myself but here in Canada that's like "you want a GPU? Give me your right arm".

The other thing to consider is what strategy you are playing with Bitcoin, are you gambling long term. There are many that speculate that Bitcoin by 2025/2026 will be worth $500k-$1,000k each as they get closer to exhausting supply, it is finite. Many who mine Ethereum seem to be doing so to buy Bitcoin. I have a friend who about 4-5 years ago bought $4k of Bitcoin which he got a few coins for (he doesn’t say how many) and he is sitting on it and does not intend to sell until 2025/26. He has already made a massive profit if he were to sell today but he is convinced it’s value still has a long way to go. He strongly expects a lot of peaks and dips over time but the long game is to see >$500k a coin.

 

[InvalidError]

The other thing to consider is what strategy you are playing with Bitcoin, are you gambling long term. There are many that speculate that Bitcoin by 2025/2026 will be worth $500k-$1,000k each as they get closer to exhausting supply, it is finite.

The number of BTC isn't quite finite: the network could theoretically agree to raise the cap, just like it could theoretically agree to change just about anything else.

My bet is that the next crypto crash will be from governments cracking down on on it.

 

[teodoreh]

Well, if there was some kind of competition, NVidia would never dare, sabotaging their GPUs for doing a particular job.
Ethereum ecosystem should address this issue to the appropriate authorities, a hardware constructor CAN'T sabotage its own products in order not to work for a certain job/software.
"But they are GRAPHICS PROCESSING UNITS" you may say. You may also claim that if someone wants to mine he should buy the CMP or a PRO card that was not intended to be used for other things than gaming.
In that case, every AI code, every Photoshop acceleration, every 3D rendering software and even some music software, should NOT use GPU for their work. But not only it does, but this happens with NVidia's blessings!

Can you see the paradox? NVidia does something BAD, and nobody seems to care because most people hate mining.
A couple of law-suits would fix the issue once and for all, but who has the money and the balls to do so?

 

[excalibur1814]

I wouldn't be surprised if the rise in second hand card prices is just simply... because so many kids are at home and they're bored out of their skulls.

 

[Krotow]

Why? Crippling one crypto-something in hardware will sprung on development of another similar thing. Plus introduce hardware and driver complexity and unwanted bugs. Cryptobabbling must be solved in international level somehow. Let financial institutions issue their digital money and ban DIY cryptocurrencies.

Also if GPU makers want to push GPUs for triple+ prices to gamers, they can go to Hell. I believe there will be not much people willing to pay such ridiculous amount for a card. Particularly now single RTX 3070 cost more than the rest of my system. Until I will not be able to purchase same 3070 for original MSRP + VAT (I live in Europe) then screw them. I can wait.

 

[Krotow]

I wouldn't be surprised if the rise in second hand card prices is just simply... because so many kids are at home and they're bored out of their skulls.

Already happened. Mid-high end GPUs now cost like 10 years old car. About kids... time to teach them about different activities outside home.

 

[average joe]

I'm still waiting for Intel's Xe card in September. I'm hoping to never buy AMD or Nvidia again after there obvious market manipulation they dont deserve your loyalty, although Old Intel doesn't either. Let's see what the new guy does.

 

[average joe]

Intel is delivering all its products at MSRP and will have AI GPU's for HPC a full year before Nvidia with allegedly 3X tflops. Xe for gaming is supposed to be a 3070 level card for 400 bucks and it will be 400 buck and available.

 

[Krotow]

Xe for gaming is supposed to be a 3070 level card for 400 bucks and it will be 400 buck and available.

I have bad feeling about this. Either it will turn out real slowpoke in reality or it will suddenly found as suitable for mining with understandable consequences. And don't expect that this GPU will be cheap (400$, really?). After flop in desktop CPU garden Intel need money too.

 

[InvalidError]

I'm still waiting for Intel's Xe card in September.

Intel's Xe will be made on TSMC's 7nm, which means little to no chance of high-volume DG2 availability at least until everyone's new fabs come online. I doubt Xe will have a meaningful market share until DG3 possibly on Intel's own 7nm.

 

[digitalgriffin]

Could you elaborate?

Why would you want to know? The more details I list the greater the chance nvidia or miners will take my ideas and run with them.

Not my monkeys, not my circus.