Gulli: ATI has done something about Linux drivers, they released documentation to x.org. Try the Ubuntu 10.04 alpha CD, the stock X11 radeon open-source driver runs Compiz better than the ATI proprietary driver, with far better 2d performance(and this on a mobility Radeon 880g IGP).
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You heard it here first: Black Friday 2024 has arrived!
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hundredislandsboy
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Okay, so what if financially Nvidia has a stronger history. Look what happaned to GM and the huge banks that went under. There's no guarantedd that Nvidia will be the GPU leader 5 years from now. I'm all for fair healthy competition because when that happens, the consumers win. But on seeing that AMD beats Nvidia at performance per price points, I'm going with the trend that AMD's future keeps looking while Nvidia is often more looking over their shoulder as the competition closes in.
that's what happens when a company doesn't charge an arm and a leg for a video card, trying to compete with cheaper consoles. I purchased 2 video cards in the last 2 years and sold one of them long after. they even retain their value for a long time these days. I'd never spend $600 on a video card, mine were both under 160 bucks each and they work great.
alextheblue
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[citation][nom]m-manla[/nom]Tired of hearing about Fermi. Come out with it already! And release a model around $200.[/citation]Fermi is HUGE - it won't hit the $200 price point any time soon. Too expensive to manufacture. Eventually they'll release a cut-down version to reach lower prices.
[citation][nom]hotsacoman[/nom]Have ya read this?http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/0 [...] unfixable/[/citation]
After reading Anand's story on the background of ATI/AMD's Cypress (RV870) chips, that makes a lot of sense. Particularly this page:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=8
ATI figured out how to cope with TSMC's new process with the RV740 (4770). They still didn't have everything perfect for the Cypress launch, but it was a lot better and now they are pumping out tons of working Cypress parts.
Nvidia is going to run into the same issues ATI did (defective vias, excessive transistor channel length variation), only its going to be even worse with a larger chip. They're going to have a hard time getting heat and power consumption under control, at least in the short term.
[citation][nom]hotsacoman[/nom]Have ya read this?http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/0 [...] unfixable/[/citation]
After reading Anand's story on the background of ATI/AMD's Cypress (RV870) chips, that makes a lot of sense. Particularly this page:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=8
ATI figured out how to cope with TSMC's new process with the RV740 (4770). They still didn't have everything perfect for the Cypress launch, but it was a lot better and now they are pumping out tons of working Cypress parts.
Nvidia is going to run into the same issues ATI did (defective vias, excessive transistor channel length variation), only its going to be even worse with a larger chip. They're going to have a hard time getting heat and power consumption under control, at least in the short term.
Gulli
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[citation][nom]schizofrog[/nom]I love it. You claim 'Fanboyism' is the only reason for buying nVidia and then go and demonstrate pure 'Fanboyism' for ATi. As mentioned so often on here, gaming based GPUs are only a small percentage of either companies revenue income, so there are still plenty of reasons to be with nVidia. It also depends on the companies support to large scale business customers and not just on the latest serial number and supposed DX11 support. I wish people would just shut up about DX.. support. Developers are consistant stating that support for current consoles is massive and they have to support DX9. DX10 and DX10.1 both failed to move things forward and DX11 will still be minimally supported for at least another year or two.@hannibalFermi is not late. nVidia claimed it would be released in Q1 2010 with an estimate of March. But even if they don't hit March they are still on time as they use the Fiscal year which gives them until the end of April before thigs are actually late.[/citation]
But why do companies support a brand that is more expensive for them and the customer? That's what my post was about, you didn't answer that, you just stated a lot of people and companies support Nvidia, not why.
But why do companies support a brand that is more expensive for them and the customer? That's what my post was about, you didn't answer that, you just stated a lot of people and companies support Nvidia, not why.
sonofliberty08
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[citation][nom]rags_20[/nom]Why would people buy current Nvidia cards when ATI DirectX cards are already out and Nvidia's Fermi cards are just around the corner?[/citation]
good question , same like tons of noobs still pick P4 when Atlhon64 out performance half the way
good question , same like tons of noobs still pick P4 when Atlhon64 out performance half the way
hundredislandsboy
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If you don't have a need for the latest DirectX, still using XP for example, the older highend and midrange videocards can run framerates just as fast. This then begs another question, why do people still use XP? If you're getting what you need from your current OS (running all the apps you need just fine), then why go through the hassle of upgrading the OS? I still have a couple of shirts and jeans that are over ten years old, perhaps even closer to 15 years old, no holes, a little worn look and they still serve their purpose so why throw them out?
Thanks to Tom's Hardware and the word spreading that AMD and ATI provide more value, more performance per dollar, less and less Noobs are picking P4, less are picking Nvidia.
manwell999
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I have an answer to why Nvidia posted a profit: Consumers are stupid. I frequent my local computer shop which carries the "rebranded" GT200 series. A person walked in to get the "Best Graphic Card for Windows 7" I I immediately pointed out the 5XXX series. He said that he only picks Nvidia, ended up walking out with a re-branded 9800 GTX, a two or three year old card. People are moronic when it comes to buying things that they don't understand.
Mousemonkey
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Perhaps that person had scouring the internet forums before coming to your shop and all the posts concerning the grey screen issues had put them off the HD 5 series.
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Cause Direct 11 doesn't matter at this point. Looking at THG's review of Dirt 2 for example we are given little discernable difference in the game experience for a "colossal" hit on performance. If ya have an old box that ya wanna stretch a year or so, it's a sound choice.
I am dispointed to see that falling behind the technology curve isn't hurting nVidia. AMD should be stomping them out of the market, but it seems only a precious few of us even care about the work AMD has done to bring DX11 to the market.
I fear many of Tom's readers either don't care about DX11, or don't feel it has arrived until it comes with an nVidia sticker on it
I fear many of Tom's readers either don't care about DX11, or don't feel it has arrived until it comes with an nVidia sticker on it
spoofedpacket
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- Jun 13, 2009
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[citation][nom]rhino13[/nom]I am dispointed to see that falling behind the technology curve isn't hurting nVidia. AMD should be stomping them out of the market, but it seems only a precious few of us even care about the work AMD has done to bring DX11 to the market.[/citation]
The gaming segment is really small for PCs these days and DirectX11 is still on the first generation of cards.
Might I remind you how horrible DX9 was for the people who ran out and bought a card for it in the early days of its release? Poor, poor performance compared to what rolled out six months later. After experiencing this, there is no way I am getting a DirectX11 card until there is more game support and it doesn't cause a massive hit in frame rate.
People on this forum seem to just want to bandwagon up against some evil empire instead of rationally thinking about how the industry works.
The gaming segment is really small for PCs these days and DirectX11 is still on the first generation of cards.
Might I remind you how horrible DX9 was for the people who ran out and bought a card for it in the early days of its release? Poor, poor performance compared to what rolled out six months later. After experiencing this, there is no way I am getting a DirectX11 card until there is more game support and it doesn't cause a massive hit in frame rate.
People on this forum seem to just want to bandwagon up against some evil empire instead of rationally thinking about how the industry works.
Mousemonkey
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rhino13 :
I am dispointed to see that falling behind the technology curve isn't hurting nVidia. AMD should be stomping them out of the market, but it seems only a precious few of us even care about the work AMD has done to bring DX11 to the market.
I fear many of Tom's readers either don't care about DX11, or don't feel it has arrived until it comes with an nVidia sticker on it
I fear many of Tom's readers either don't care about DX11, or don't feel it has arrived until it comes with an nVidia sticker on it
How many games have you played in say the last five years that start with an ATi logo flashing across your screen?, it could be little things like that which help breed the apathy towards ATi's cards.
hundredislandsboy
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Are you saying it's more about mindshare than market share, that the gaming masses have been brainwashed to blindly follow NVidia?
Gulli
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[citation][nom]lucid_lynx_or_GTFO[/nom]Gulli: ATI has done something about Linux drivers, they released documentation to x.org. Try the Ubuntu 10.04 alpha CD, the stock X11 radeon open-source driver runs Compiz better than the ATI proprietary driver, with far better 2d performance(and this on a mobility Radeon 880g IGP).[/citation]
It's not that ATI drivers on Linux don't run stuff, they just perform a lot worse than their counterparts on Windows. I have the latest drivers for my HD 5870, but my screen will go black for a second or two whenever I open a video and when playing the video the rest of the system is noticeably slower than on Windows, even adjusting the volume sometimes causes hickups. My cpu is a core i7 920, so ATI has absolutely no excuse for this poor performance, especially since Nvidia cards don't have these problems on Linux. But as I said, if you're not on Linux, ATI rules (my HD 5870 eats Crysis for breakfast on Windows and ATI offers more bang for buck at every pricepoint).
It's not that ATI drivers on Linux don't run stuff, they just perform a lot worse than their counterparts on Windows. I have the latest drivers for my HD 5870, but my screen will go black for a second or two whenever I open a video and when playing the video the rest of the system is noticeably slower than on Windows, even adjusting the volume sometimes causes hickups. My cpu is a core i7 920, so ATI has absolutely no excuse for this poor performance, especially since Nvidia cards don't have these problems on Linux. But as I said, if you're not on Linux, ATI rules (my HD 5870 eats Crysis for breakfast on Windows and ATI offers more bang for buck at every pricepoint).
Gulli
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[citation][nom]HundredIslandsBoy[/nom]Are you saying it's more about mindshare than market share, that the gaming masses have been brainwashed to blindly follow NVidia?[/citation]
Yes, that's exactly what's going on.
It's a fact that ATI offers more bang for buck at every price point, as it has for years. And, for the time being, ATI even delivers more bang where price is no concern (it has both the fastest single GPU card and the fastest double GPU card).
Yes, that's exactly what's going on.
It's a fact that ATI offers more bang for buck at every price point, as it has for years. And, for the time being, ATI even delivers more bang where price is no concern (it has both the fastest single GPU card and the fastest double GPU card).
Mousemonkey
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brendano257
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[citation][nom]vaughn2k[/nom]"Fermi - A unit of length equal to one femtometer (10e15 meter).""Fermi energy- is often, confusingly, used to describe a different but closely-related concept, the Fermi level (also called chemical potential).[1] The Fermi energy and chemical potential are the same at absolute zero"Potentially a 10 to the -15 sales this year, or absolute zero sales...[/citation]
Enrico Fermi, a (English?) mathematician and scientist who experimented with approximate calculations, usually only concerned with answers of X * 10^n.
Enrico Fermi, a (English?) mathematician and scientist who experimented with approximate calculations, usually only concerned with answers of X * 10^n.
Mousemonkey
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[citation][nom]rhino13[/nom]I fear many of Tom's readers either don't care about DX11, or don't feel it has arrived until it comes with an nVidia sticker on it[/citation]
The game I want to play using DX11 is Stalker CoP. I can play DX10.1 (not maxed) on my 4850 at 1920x1200 at decent framrates. If I want to turn on all eye candy and tesselation at that resolution the only thing that will pull it off with enough performance is the 5970, a $650 card.
So, if the DX11 parts are incapable of delivering awesome DX11 performance then why buy one? If I must spend $600+ (or deal with dual card problems) to play the way I want there is no reason not to wait and see what Nvidia has up it's sleeve. ATI made a very nice card so don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's a very powerfull card when it comes to DX11.
The game I want to play using DX11 is Stalker CoP. I can play DX10.1 (not maxed) on my 4850 at 1920x1200 at decent framrates. If I want to turn on all eye candy and tesselation at that resolution the only thing that will pull it off with enough performance is the 5970, a $650 card.
So, if the DX11 parts are incapable of delivering awesome DX11 performance then why buy one? If I must spend $600+ (or deal with dual card problems) to play the way I want there is no reason not to wait and see what Nvidia has up it's sleeve. ATI made a very nice card so don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's a very powerfull card when it comes to DX11.
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