Nvidia Responds to GeForce 600 Series V-Sync Stuttering Issue

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[citation][nom]Hetneo[/nom]Wrong, because of vsync basically. Monitor is refreshed every 1/60th of second, or 72nd or 75th or 120th depending the settings of monitor 60, 72, 75 or 120 Hz, it's controlled by crystals in it and there is no arbitration in it's frequency. Vsync makes sure that frames that are not in sync with refresh rate are not displayed at all, that's how vsync works. If you have screen tearing with vsync on, then there's something very odd going on with your monitor and people who know what they are talking about call such monitors by one pretty and short word, "broken".[/citation]
I think you misread what I wrote or you misunderstood.

I was talking about when v-sync is not on, you can get screen tearing, even when your FPS are lower than the refresh rate.

You also do not understand how refresh rate works with LCD's. While they are solid state, and only change when told to, monitors are forced to refresh the state or at least check their state, once every refresh. The monitor will look at a block of memory designated as the monitors buffer, and display it to the screen. Without v-sync on, the video card can be in the middle of updating that buffer at the same time the monitor is updating its image, resulting in screen tears.

As far as v-sync only ignoring the extra frames, again, this is wrong the vast majority of the time. You may find this functionality in benchmarks so that it can still measure how many FPS your card can perform, without tearing, and this sort of functionality can be programmed into a game, in an attempt to avoid tearing and not limit FPS, but this is not how the setting v-sync normally behaves, and never the way it behaves when you turn it on in your Nvidia or AMD control panels. Normally it renders a frame, and if the monitor is updating the screen, the GPU is instructed to wait until it is done before sending that image to the screen buffer.

Try turning on a FPS monitor sometime and test a variety of games. You'll see the FPS get capped at your refresh rate in almost every case. I have seen an exception twice, so I'm not saying you are always wrong, but most the time you are.
 
[citation][nom]redeye[/nom]not true blazorthon ... only problem is that tom's in effect excoriated AMD for a paper launch of the 7970, and they did not do the same for the GTX 670... which they said was the greatest thing since sliced bread!... when a spade is a spade call it a spade, not a heart. question is... is it two weeks after the launch of the gtx670?... Yes?... are there any available?... no!.. AMD had units available two weeks after the launch date.... excuses on Nvidia's part do not cut it, no availablilty means PAPER Launch... and tom's conclusion of the AMD 7970 article smacked of nvidia "love" or hatred over the fact that they had to work harder because the launch date was moved up...[/citation]

There is availability. If it was a paper launch, then there would be no GTX 670s at all. Unlike AMD's launch of the 7970 in December, there were GTX 670s at launch time. There were ZERO 7970s when it first launched. There weren't a lot of 670s, but there was SOME, so it's not a paper launch. Beyond that, unlike the 7970, the GTX 670 has one of the best performance for the money ratios of any graphics card, especially in the high end, whereas the 7970 had poor performance for the money when it launched.

Beyond that, Tom's has continually ridiculed Nvidia for their poor availability and praised AMD for keeping their cards in supply once they got them in supply. They aren't being zealous about it, but they do mention it in numerous articles.

Also, to get a Kepler card, you simply go on Newegg's email listing (or that of another site) and you'll be told when they are in stock (which happens at least a few times a month, especially when new models come out). When you get the email(s), you simply go to the web site and buy the card that you want. You need to be quick, but it can be done and it's not particularly difficult, especially if you have a phone or something else that gives you notifications when you get a new email.

Tom's isn't biased for telling us how it is. You're the one whom took a biased point of view here.
 
[citation][nom]SkyWalker1726[/nom]Kinda miss amd ... a Driver each Month[/citation]

Agree. I used to run both Nvidia and AMG products in my various builds; now settled on AMG as -overall- they seem to give me less of an installation and maintenance problem.
 
[citation][nom]julianbautista87[/nom]that's for those who said that AMD's drivers suck. I have a hd 6850 and I haven't had the first driver issue.[/citation]
try playing return to castle wolfenstein or other old id games based on opengl - you'll find em
 
V-sync is only used to prevent screen tearing while panning.It synchronizes the vertical refresh rate signal of your display with your gpu.Triple buffering can help while v-sync is enabled to bring your cpu into the mix and thus have smoother framerates while using v-sync, i.e. Display+Gpu+Cpu working in a more asynchronous mode.With high refresh rates you don't need v-sync as opposed to a display only capable of 60hz.At 60hz your cpu+gpu can easily go past this number in terms of frames per second, so your 60hz display will need for you to slow stuff down, i.e. use v-sync or else you get tearing.True 120hz displays don't have this problem, so you can just turn v-sync off and let the frames per second run as they please.Kind of like the days of CRT monitors only with better image quality.
 
I'm so glad NVidia responded to this. I just got the GTX670 and noticed stuttering in Diablo 3 when with V-Sync on. I was a little concerned that it was my new system or something else I installed (like a driver for something else.) These days it's hard to get a corporation admit to any problems. I can live with the issue knowing there's a driver update in a month or two. I'll just use the frame rate target instead for now.
 
[citation][nom]dragondale13[/nom]V-sync is only used to prevent screen tearing while panning.It synchronizes the vertical refresh rate signal of your display with your gpu.Triple buffering can help while v-sync is enabled to bring your cpu into the mix and thus have smoother framerates while using v-sync, i.e. Display+Gpu+Cpu working in a more asynchronous mode.With high refresh rates you don't need v-sync as opposed to a display only capable of 60hz.At 60hz your cpu+gpu can easily go past this number in terms of frames per second, so your 60hz display will need for you to slow stuff down, i.e. use v-sync or else you get tearing.True 120hz displays don't have this problem, so you can just turn v-sync off and let the frames per second run as they please.Kind of like the days of CRT monitors only with better image quality.[/citation]

Mostly everything said was untrue.

Triple buffering has nothing to do with your CPU. Normally, at least before more recently, games used a two buffer system. One buffer where the monitor updates its image from, and another that the frame is rendered on and then copied to the monitors buffer for viewing. Triple buffering adds one more for rendering, so that if the v-sync is on, and the monitor is updating, the GPU can hold onto its image, start a new one on a 3rd buffer until the monitor is done updating. The GPU will continue to just render every other frame on its two buffers with the 3rd buffer having a copy of the finished products.

Also, you still get screen tearing on 120hz monitors, because without v-sync, images can still be updated on the monitor at the same time a rendered frame is copied to the screen buffer. I have a 120hz monitor, and I do get screen tearing. However, you won't have as much tearing when the FPS are lower than your hz. You'll never get multiple tears when your FPS are below your refresh rate, but tearing still occurs depending on the game.
 
[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Mostly everything said was untrue.Triple buffering has nothing to do with your CPU. Normally, at least before more recently, games used a two buffer system. One buffer where the monitor updates its image from, and another that the frame is rendered on and then copied to the monitors buffer for viewing. Triple buffering adds one more for rendering, so that if the v-sync is on, and the monitor is updating, the GPU can hold onto its image, start a new one on a 3rd buffer until the monitor is done updating. The GPU will continue to just render every other frame on its two buffers with the 3rd buffer having a copy of the finished products.Also, you still get screen tearing on 120hz monitors, because without v-sync, images can still be updated on the monitor at the same time a rendered frame is copied to the screen buffer. I have a 120hz monitor, and I do get screen tearing. However, you won't have as much tearing when the FPS are lower than your hz. You'll never get multiple tears when your FPS are below your refresh rate, but tearing still occurs depending on the game.[/citation]

If triple buffering lets the monitor update while the GPU renders a separate frame, then shouldn't triple buffering at least alleviate tearing when your frame rate is lower than the monitor's refresh rate?
 
Looks like it seems to be an adaptive v-sync issue (software related) nVidia may need to do some more twekaing of their drivers. I have a 670GTX and run v-sync and have no problems what so ever.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]If triple buffering lets the monitor update while the GPU renders a separate frame, then shouldn't triple buffering at least alleviate tearing when your frame rate is lower than the monitor's refresh rate?[/citation]
I'll say this again. Screen tearing continues to happen when v-sync is not on, regardless of how low your FPS are.

Since there is no synchronization between when the video card sends an image to the screen buffer and the monitor updating the screen, there is nothing preventing the video card from updating the screen buffer when the monitor is part way through updating the image on the screen. It's complete random luck if there is no tearing. Now I do believe some game engines may attempt to sync up the process, even without v-sync on, but many games do not (I'm not 100% sure if the games that don't tear are just a product of luck or not). Screen tearing when your FPS are lower than your hz are generally less pronounced due to generally being every other frame getting a tear.
 
[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]I'll say this again. Screen tearing continues to happen when v-sync is not on, regardless of how low your FPS are.Since there is no synchronization between when the video card sends an image to the screen buffer and the monitor updating the screen, there is nothing preventing the video card from updating the screen buffer when the monitor is part way through updating the image on the screen. It's complete random luck if there is no tearing. Now I do believe some game engines may attempt to sync up the process, even without v-sync on, but many games do not (I'm not 100% sure if the games that don't tear are just a product of luck or not). Screen tearing when your FPS are lower than your hz are generally less pronounced due to generally being every other frame getting a tear.[/citation]

I didn't say ELIMINATES tearing, I said ALLEVIATE (meaning lessen, not get rid of completely) and even then, only with tearing that is caused at frame rates lower than your monitor's refresh rate. You didn't even address my question. If you hadn't answered, that'd be fine, but you didn't even answer it properly when you replied. Also, if triple buffering doesn't help whatsoever, then what good does it do?
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]I didn't say ELIMINATES tearing, I said ALLEVIATE (meaning lessen, not get rid of completely) and even then, only with tearing that is caused at frame rates lower than your monitor's refresh rate. You didn't even address my question. If you hadn't answered, that'd be fine, but you didn't even answer it properly when you replied. Also, if triple buffering doesn't help whatsoever, then what good does it do?[/citation]
Sorry, I misunderstood the meaning of alleviate. I thought you basically meant remove or cure.

No, triple buffering would have no effect without v-sync on. It'll still update the screen buffer at the exact same times it would otherwise. The only difference is it alternates which buffer is copied to the screen buffer, but it's not a negative either, so nothing is hurt leaving it on, other than stealing a little bit of extra vram.
 
I agree with blppt, I don't currently have two machines with each gpu in them, however, I have used 2 different AMD and 3 different NVidia cards in my system so far, I noticed that since after 11.8 catalyst drivers, AMD have been buggy and I experienced lots of issues. I have had far less issues with my Nvidia boards, my 570 was hands down better. I haven't gotten 680 yet, so can't comment and hope I don't end up as the unlucky group that experiences stutters, only time will tell. both amd and nvidia make good cards, but I think nvidia simply has more people working on drivers because they have the budget for a large software team. peace
 
[citation][nom]stilldasolda[/nom]I agree with blppt, I don't currently have two machines with each gpu in them, however, I have used 2 different AMD and 3 different NVidia cards in my system so far, I noticed that since after 11.8 catalyst drivers, AMD have been buggy and I experienced lots of issues. I have had far less issues with my Nvidia boards, my 570 was hands down better. I haven't gotten 680 yet, so can't comment and hope I don't end up as the unlucky group that experiences stutters, only time will tell. both amd and nvidia make good cards, but I think nvidia simply has more people working on drivers because they have the budget for a large software team. peace[/citation]

AMD's Catalyst 12.6 and 12.7 drivers are extremely stable, at least with Radeon 7000 cards. Also, Nvidia has released drivers recently that are supposed to fix the issues that are stated in this article (among a few others) and they are supposedly extremely stable like they should be, but I can't confirm because I don't have a GTX 600 card right now.
 
I quit playing video games. I am completely heartbroken about this video card. gtx 670 has a terrible stutter in most games. esp diablo3 diablo 3 is unplayable its so bad. i dont even know if stutter is the right word for it. by stutter I dont mean throttling of fps I mean visually the image locks up and is overall jerky. I had a 660 with the same issue before.. I get smoother game play on a 4850... Im almost certain its a hardware issue at this point. and nvidia should be ashamed of them selves for not addressing the issue and trying to disguise it as being vysnc issues.. shameless decoy tactics.
 
look a the dates for gods sake. its almost been a year and they have yet to fix the issue.. Im going to mail this pos video card to nvidia with a letter calling them out... telling them to try it for them selves.
 
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