News Nvidia RTX 40-series allegedly getting down-binned GPU updates — certain 4060 and 4070 class cards to use larger, harvested chips

[Admin]

The latest GeForce driver reportedly ushers in support for GeForce RTX 4060, GeForce RTX 4060 Ti, and GeForce RTX 4070 with different dies from the original.

Nvidia RTX 40-series allegedly getting down-binned GPU updates — certain 4060 and 4070 class cards to use larger, harvested chips : Read more

 

[Eximo]

"Silicon that doesn't make the cute for the GeForce RTX 4080 is passed down to the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super"

 

[Eximo]

Should be interesting. Maybe get a 4070 that accepts a 4080 GPU waterblock. Pointless cost wise, but useful for SFF builds perhaps.

 

[TechLurker]

I'm sure the answer is "yes" in both cases, but I wonder if they are actually fusing off perfectly usable sections simply because they don't clock well at a given efficiency target, or if they're fusing off the unusable sections, all to prevent old-school GPU lotteries, where defective portions were technically usable and could sometimes result in a card being faster than baseline thanks to an extra bit of memory or raster cores that aren't entirely defective.

I remember a time when certain ATI and NVIDIA cards were valued due to both companies having not bothered to completely fuse off/kill the defective sections, so someone could end up with a non-standard number of cores and memory that usually performed better than baseline. In rare cases, having the same amount as a card one step up but just clocked lower due to power issues (and the resulting deliberate OC'ing of voltage to make it match at the expense of energy cost).

A more recent example was with Ryzen; IIRC, AMD had an unintended CPU lottery during the Ryzen 2000 era where some partially defective CCUs weren't fused off, so people got Ryzens with a non-standard number of cores or memory.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

The present choice for the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti is the AD106 silicon. However, AD104 dies, which don't meet the requirements of the GeForce RTX 4070, will start finding their way into the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti. MEGAsizeGPU didn't specify whether the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16GB, which employs the same AD106 die, will face the same transition.

First off all, the original Tweet by the leaker doesn't seem to show up (this page doesn’t exist ?). Did he mention that only the 8GB variant would be affected by the change in silicon die, and not the 16GB card ?

I can't find any info, and without any proof or backup, it is hard to trust this leak.

Because it doesn't make any sense, since BOTH the 4060 Ti 8GB and 16GB cards use the same GPU silicon, albeit with a slightly different code, "AD106-351-A1" vs "AD106-350-A1".

"351" die is being used in the 16GB SKU. So most likely he was referring the 16GB variant, since the 8GB RTX 4060 Ti card has been a hard sell, so Nvidia most likely won't give importance to this card.

 

[tamalero]

I'm sure the answer is "yes" in both cases, but I wonder if they are actually fusing off perfectly usable sections simply because they don't clock well at a given efficiency target, or if they're fusing off the unusable sections, all to prevent old-school GPU lotteries, where defective portions were technically usable and could sometimes result in a card being faster than baseline thanks to an extra bit of memory or raster cores that aren't entirely defective.

I remember a time when certain ATI and NVIDIA cards were valued due to both companies having not bothered to completely fuse off/kill the defective sections, so someone could end up with a non-standard number of cores and memory that usually performed better than baseline. In rare cases, having the same amount as a card one step up but just clocked lower due to power issues (and the resulting deliberate OC'ing of voltage to make it match at the expense of energy cost).

A more recent example was with Ryzen; IIRC, AMD had an unintended CPU lottery during the Ryzen 2000 era where some partially defective CCUs weren't fused off, so people got Ryzens with a non-standard number of cores or memory.

Wasnt it the legendary 9700 non pro that could be unlocked to full pro with a bios update?
or AMD, where some of its cpus that used a pencil tip to enable the other core and overclocking?

 

[pixelpusher220]

I'm sure the answer is "yes" in both cases, but I wonder if they are actually fusing off perfectly usable sections simply because they don't clock well at a given efficiency target, or if they're fusing off the unusable sections, all to prevent old-school GPU lotteries, where defective portions were technically usable and could sometimes result in a card being faster than baseline thanks to an extra bit of memory or raster cores that aren't entirely defective.

Absolutely hate that the literally damage the cards to sell them cheaper. Almost should be illegal.

Silicon Lottery could be a hella marketing and good will exercise. Wouldn't affect new sales much at all as it's just the lower binned stuff off a SKU

 

[russell_john]

Silicon that can't cut it for 4080 Super get cut down and used on 4070
Silicon that can't cut it for 4070 Super get cut down and used on 4060

It's a common thing to not waste silicon that's only slightly under spec by pushing it down the stack. I don't think it really has anything to do with when a new generation is coming but it might .... or it might be they have a lot of chips that just can't make the cut and don't want to waste them. Their A100 and H100 sales are still pretty strong and it could be they are doing this to juggle manufacturing time so they can concentrate on making H100's which are so profitable they can afford to take a slight loss on the consumer GPUs by down binning chips they already have stocked so they don't have to make more 4070 and 4060 chips and can concentrate on pumping out the H100

 

[Co BIY]

Absolutely hate that the literally damage the cards to sell them cheaper. Almost should be illegal.

Silicon Lottery could be a hella marketing and good will exercise. Wouldn't affect new sales much at all as it's just the lower binned stuff off a SKU

They literally do additional work to the damaged parts to make use of them in products for sale. If they allowed the crippled units to sell "as is" in lower priced products they would likely also have to create firmware to match each possible configuration.

This is like a house builder salvaging something from a piece of damaged wood on a construction site. They cut off the damage and shorten it to the next needed length. They don't call the architect up and tell them to change the plans to accommodate a couple of extra "board feet".

 

[Co BIY]

It's a common thing to not waste silicon that's only slightly under spec by pushing it down the stack. I don't think it really has anything to do with when a new generation is coming but it might .... or it might be they have a lot of chips that just can't make the cut and don't want to waste them.

Wouldn't surprise me if it has more to do with the workload of the engineering teams. At the mature end of a product cycle they can "glean the field" by reviewing the reject bins and make a plan to systematically integrate them into the product line.

 

[FoxTread3]

March 23, 2024 - It's nice to read an article that is positive about GPUs for once. It also shows how stupid I am rushing out to buy the newest latest thing. I'm glad that people that have waited to buy GPUs could benefit from down binning. I hope to hold out from buying a new GPU until the next generation of Nvidia GPUs is released. Then I'll buy a mid range GPU like the RTX 4070 Super Ti when I need it.

 

[pixelpusher220]

They literally do additional work to the damaged parts to make use of them in products for sale. If they allowed the crippled units to sell "as is" in lower priced products they would likely also have to create firmware to match each possible configuration.

This is like a house builder salvaging something from a piece of damaged wood on a construction site. They cut off the damage and shorten it to the next needed length. They don't call the architect up and tell them to change the plans to accommodate a couple of extra "board feet".

They had a 'working' complete card - just at less than desired/guaranteed performance specs. Anything else is expense they are incurring to active *prevent* users from getting silicon lottery part in a lower SKU'd card.

 

[TechLurker]

Wasnt it the legendary 9700 non pro that could be unlocked to full pro with a bios update?
or AMD, where some of its cpus that used a pencil tip to enable the other core and overclocking?

I was referring more to the 9700 and similar, where using the BIOS of the Pro version or the GPU one step up allowed unlocking of the semi-defective cores since they were only BIOS killed, rather than being fused off at the factory. There were a lucky few who even had a technically functional top-end version, but required some overvolting to get it to perform as such.

Would be kind of nice to see that happen again, but NVIDIA definitely won't do it, and Intel probably wouldn't do it either, since their focus is trying to get their GPUs stable for the mass market. While AMD did occasionally do that in the past and don't seem to mind it when it does occasionally happen, AMD has become too efficient with their binning processes that basically everything is repurposed towards another role (even the defective PS5/X1SX cores found new life in project boards). That said, it'd be kind of neat if AMD did occasionally release lottery samples directly from their shop; letting the hardcore try their luck with flashing a higher-end BIOS and working with the defective sections of a CPU or GPU.

 

[tamalero]

I was referring more to the 9700 and similar, where using the BIOS of the Pro version or the GPU one step up allowed unlocking of the semi-defective cores since they were only BIOS killed, rather than being fused off at the factory. There were a lucky few who even had a technically functional top-end version, but required some overvolting to get it to perform as such.

Would be kind of nice to see that happen again, but NVIDIA definitely won't do it, and Intel probably wouldn't do it either, since their focus is trying to get their GPUs stable for the mass market. While AMD did occasionally do that in the past and don't seem to mind it when it does occasionally happen, AMD has become too efficient with their binning processes that basically everything is repurposed towards another role (even the defective PS5/X1SX cores found new life in project boards). That said, it'd be kind of neat if AMD did occasionally release lottery samples directly from their shop; letting the hardcore try their luck with flashing a higher-end BIOS and working with the defective sections of a CPU or GPU.

I think there was another one as well.
One that when flashed was "transformed" from a GT to XTX levels. But it depended entirely on the quality of the chip (all chips were unlocked in that model, but not all were stable)
Perhaps it was the 970?


*edit*
I think it was the 800GTO to PRO/XT from Sapphire.
I remember buying one unlocked from the a local reseller.