News Nvidia RTX 5080 suffers from similar missing ROP defect as 5090 and 5070 Ti: Report

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Some of the latest leaks show performance near/at the RTX 5080 in certain instances.
Keep the hope alive!
Yeah, problem is companies cherry-picking benchmark results. And AMD never claimed 5080-level competition, which means either these cards won't compete, or AMD somehow underestimated their own hardware, which is not likely. But on the optimist-side of the argument... maybe AMD didn't underestimate their own hardware, but OVER-estimated Nvidia's. So, yeah, there's that possibility.
 
People need to start lawyering up for class actions and start an independent investigation into Nvidia’s practices, everything from marketing, AIB policies to R&D. The potential for price fixing(or failure to bring it under control), artificially creating a supply-demand issue by paper launching a product while prioritizing other sectors(greed), knowingly supplying under spec’ed parts as full spec’ed parts, duplicit terms, ambiguous/fake advertisements, incompetence, pushing the 12VHPWR spec knowing it isn’t up to par while potentially causing bodily harm and safety endangerment, the list goes on and on.
When companies become a monopoly everything else follows. We’ve seen it with Intel before and now Nvidia going down the same path knowing AMD won’t compete in the upper echelons for some time to come. They think they could get away with it. Consumers need to stand up to these malpractices and bring them to heel no matter their importance or size.
 
I wonder where the primary failure is here. Tsmc, Nvidia, or third party? Seems like it would mostly be a tsmc thing first then everyone down the line missed it or passed it off. Will be interesting to see who missed what checks on this.
 
I suppose it comes down to who did the binning. Could be as simple as a few trays meant to be held back got sent along instead. That could easily be hundreds to thousands of chips. That they weren't checked at any point is a bit disconcerting, but also interesting that GPU-Z has to be up to date to even see the ROP count. Could be that they also didn't have access to software tools yet to check, at least at the factory.
 
On the plus side: there's no real reason for anybody to upgrade their GPUs, considering the abysmal state of the game industry.

What do you want to do with a 5080 this year, play Civ 7 at 250 fps? I think it's safe to assume that Doom: Preternal is going to run amazing on everything - although playing through Doom Eternal again, I think I completely loathe that game - so hopefully they swing back toward the design of Doom 2016.
 
I wonder where the primary failure is here. Tsmc, Nvidia, or third party? Seems like it would mostly be a tsmc thing first then everyone down the line missed it or passed it off. Will be interesting to see who missed what checks on this.
It's 100% on NVIDIA.
Having chips with defects on a production wafer is a normal occurrence. Defective parts on chips regularly get fused off and the chip gets binned down to a lower tier GPU (or CPU) die.
 
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On the plus side: there's no real reason for anybody to upgrade their GPUs, considering the abysmal state of the game industry.

What do you want to do with a 5080 this year, play Civ 7 at 250 fps? I think it's safe to assume that Doom: Preternal is going to run amazing on everything - although playing through Doom Eternal again, I think I completely loathe that game - so hopefully they swing back toward the design of Doom 2016.
There are many games of the last 10 years that can still challenge the 5070/5080 at max settings and 4K resolution. By challenge, I mean keep the 1% lows above 60FPS.
 
People need to start lawyering up for class actions and start an independent investigation into Nvidia’s practices, everything from marketing, AIB policies to R&D. The potential for price fixing(or failure to bring it under control), artificially creating a supply-demand issue by paper launching a product while prioritizing other sectors(greed), knowingly supplying under spec’ed parts as full spec’ed parts, duplicit terms, ambiguous/fake advertisements, incompetence, pushing the 12VHPWR spec knowing it isn’t up to par while potentially causing bodily harm and safety endangerment, the list goes on and on.
When companies become a monopoly everything else follows. We’ve seen it with Intel before and now Nvidia going down the same path knowing AMD won’t compete in the upper echelons for some time to come. They think they could get away with it. Consumers need to stand up to these malpractices and bring them to heel no matter their importance or size.

I'm no lawyer, but I happen to know some things.... So I guess take this as a "trust me bro" Lol.

I think it would be very hard to launch a class action. I think what you would be more looking at is for the appropriate watchdog to launch their own investigation into NVidia. Price fixing happens when companies phone eachother up and agree to set prices high so they both benefit. I could see NVidia doing something like this. But I dont think this is something AMD would do. One company alone doesn't "price fix".... its a scheme amongst all competitors to stuff eachothers pockets at the expense of competition.

I dont know if NVidia is artificially creating a supply-demand issue. It could just be that their isn't enough silicone to keep scalpers at bay because most its going to enterprise. I dont think that's illegal. I think it makes business sense as most of NVidias revenue will come from business deals/contracts, and not some kid trying to push 240FPS on video games. Ya, it's greed. I get it, but I don't think it's illegal. If there's only so much silicone, then it is what it is. Even if they are intentionally keeping supply low, that wouldn't benefit them. That would only benefit the scalpers, and maybe the board partners. NVidias price is their price and I dont think they are selling their own cards through their own portals above MSRP so I dont know if you would have a case there.

The whole ROPs thing.... I don't think that was intentional, as they wouldn't do that knowing full well it would get noticed right away. It was probably a production glitch somewhere. Even if it was intentional, while highly unlikely, it would be impossible to prove. NVidia has already said they will RMA all cards, so they are already making it right. So I dont think you would have a case

Fake adverts: If you're refering to the "4090 performance for $500" thing. Ya, they stated on that slide at the keynote that it was done with MFG/DLSS. They aren't lying about it. Ya, the whole fake frames thing. I get it. They are stretching the truth, but they aren't lying as they did put the disclaimer, so I don't think you would have a case there.

I think the real class action needs to be over the power connector. That class action is long overdue. I personally will not buy anything above a 4080S. People for years were bootlicking GN in agreement with their "user error" garbage. I have been telling every person under the sun for the last 3 years that this never has been and never will be user error. I got laughed out of more forums than I can count. "jUsT pLuG iT iN pRoPeRlY nExT tImE". Thank gawd, with all the coverage on it now, people are finally starting to get it now. I'm starting to feel vindicated. Watch der8auer's video, and the sequel (buildzoids video) .... covered this very well. This has always and will always be an NVidia problem. Users never did forget how to plug in a plug into a socket when the 8-pin was replaced. That was all a hoax. Building and using a PC should always be a safe & anxiety-free experience, no matter which components you get. Unfortunately, it's not the case. The 12VHPWR connector is a fire-hazard. It is unsafe, and should not be allowed to be sold to consumers. It always has been a firehazard day 1, and no amount of blame deflection will change that fact. I will not buy anything above a 4080S until it's fixed. I am not risking my house over a GPU. No one should even hafta think about that at all when building a PC. It is absolutely absurd, and the consumers have a very strong case against NVidia on this.
 
You forgot scalpers
One of the most effective ways to deal with scalping issues is to allow backordering, as well as unit restrictions that limit addresses and payment methods. For example, for the first 2 months of release, allow backordering as well as limit it to 1 card per person (blacklisting the address and payment source from further purchases during the first 2 months. This means that everyone who wants 1 card early into the launch, can get their order in at MSRP.
Then quantity limits can start to be eased up (though keeping backorders in place).

From a business standpoint, it will also improve sales. For example when I need to do repairs and maintenance around the house, some less common parts can often be sold out when I want to order them. The store that ended up getting my business was one that allowed backorders, where I placed an order for everything I needed and once they were in stock, they immediately shipped it out. The stores that didn't offer backorders, did not get my business because I didn't want to have to check multiple times per day for stock.
 
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One of the most effective ways to deal with scalping issues is to allow backordering
Couldn't agree more. And the stupid thing is, Newegg (for example), already has a backordering feature, and it'll be enabled on some products, while most others simply say "Out of stock." Why the difference I wonder?
 
Lets see here: Black screens, BSODs, DOA/Bricked GPUs, faulty drivers, PCIe 5.0 issues, fake MSRP prices for fake frames, 4 month shipping ETA's, melting connectors, exploding power stages, missing ROPS. Talk about a botched launch, holy crap. These 50 series owners just cant catch a break. Welp, I won't be letting go of my 4080S any time soon. At this rate, this dumpster fire will continue all the way up until the 60 series.
Also, Nvidia quietly dropped 32-bit PhysX and CUDA support with the 50-series. So practically all games that used hardware PhysX will no longer support the feature on these cards. There's a software fallback, but it tends to result in crippling performance, making some of these games unplayable, at a fraction of the performance offered by a comparable 40-series card.

"Although Nvidia confirmed that some of its GB202 and GB203 graphics processors are configured with a lower number of ROPs than it officially set for its GeForce RTX 5070 Ti, RTX 5090, and RTX 5090D products, it never revealed actual reasons why this happened.
The parts may have been known to be defective, but just shipped anyway, since they knew supply would be tight and that the vast majority of users are not going to have any clue that a portion of their card is disabled, or notice a ~4% difference in performance. Unless someone follows tech sites, they will be unaware of the issue, or that their card doesn't perform quite as advertised. Most likely, any cards sent back to the manufacturer will just get re-sold as new hardware to someone unaware of the issue.
 
Lets see here: Black screens, BSODs, DOA/Bricked GPUs, faulty drivers, PCIe 5.0 issues, fake MSRP prices for fake frames, 4 month shipping ETA's, melting connectors, exploding power stages, missing ROPS. Talk about a botched launch, holy crap. These 50 series owners just cant catch a break. Welp, I won't be letting go of my 4080S any time soon. At this rate, this dumpster fire will continue all the way up until the 60 series.
and these cards will be sold out no matter what nvidia shovels them.

when AMD comes in with 5070ti performance on the 9070xt and at the $550 pricepoint team green will release the 5070, at about 30% less performance then the 9070xt in everything execpt for ray tracing where it draws close to even, they'll charge 650 MSRP for it (800 in actuality), and those will sell out in moments while the amd cards sit on the shelves for 550.

because nvidia has convincing the gaming public their brand is a status symbol.
 
don't say that, you're gonna jinx it... :anguished:
this lol.. in a race of the bottom.. AMD has even failed at it a few times.


I'd like to say that AMD can use NVIDIA's dumpster-fire GPU launch to their advantage and really have a 1080 Ti moment with the release of the upcoming 9070 XT, but AMD has been able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on so many past occasions that I am currently just cautiously optimistic.
Imagine if they pull a switcheroo and release a dual gpu version to compete with the 5080l...
 
and these cards will be sold out no matter what nvidia shovels them.

when AMD comes in with 5070ti performance on the 9070xt and at the $550 pricepoint team green will release the 5070, at about 30% less performance then the 9070xt in everything execpt for ray tracing where it draws close to even, they'll charge 650 MSRP for it (800 in actuality), and those will sell out in moments while the amd cards sit on the shelves for 550.

because nvidia has convincing the gaming public their brand is a status symbol.

I understand what you're saying. I dont think these 550$ GPUs sitting on the shelves has anything to do with status. I think its a combination of 3 things. #1) AMD has always had driver issues. #2) NVidia has native CUDA cores, and video editors/work stations love CUDA technology, some gamers also do video editing. #3) AMD cards can't ray-trace worth a damn. Even the 7900XTX is like.... a 2070 for ray tracing. Its really bad. So I think these 3 things are why someone will take a 5070 for 650$ over a 9070 XT for $550
 
I understand what you're saying. I dont think these 550$ GPUs sitting on the shelves has anything to do with status. I think its a combination of 3 things. #1) AMD has always had driver issues. #2) NVidia has native CUDA cores, and video editors/work stations love CUDA technology, some gamers also do video editing. #3) AMD cards can't ray-trace worth a damn. Even the 7900XTX is like.... a 2070 for ray tracing. Its really bad. So I think these 3 things are why someone will take a 5070 for 650$ over a 9070 XT for $550
I'm currently on a 7900GRE, its the first AMD card i got since the GTX970 (I've had several nvidia cards since then), and i don't know what driver issues you're complaining about. whatever issues amd has with drivers is long dead and over.

That said it's not like amd is perfect, their FSR is awful, but then so is NVIDIA DLSS, it's just dlss is less awful. that doesn't mean i'd ever play with either feature enabled.

as for raytracing, call me when more then 3 games use it in a way i can notice it. the current list of games in which ray tracing is obvious when turned on are Forza, Cyberpunk (especially modded), and Wuthering Waves. while the number of games which boast ray tracing is significantly more, most have such small implementation they fact of the mater is you'll never notice it.

nvidia has disabled physx on the 5000 series. so the main advantage to cuda cores is basically gone.
 
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The die size of Navi 48 (9070/XT) is 390mm.
GB203 (5080/5070Ti) is 378mm
GB205 (5070) is 263mm
Navi 31 (7900XTX/XT/GRE) is 529mm
Navi 32 (7800/7700/XT) is 346mm
But critically, Navi 31/32 are MCM, where as Navi 48 is monolithic, just like nvidia.

I'm quite sure AMD won't sell their chips at a loss, but Navi 48 is larger and more expensive to produce than a down binned 5070Ti.
 
I'm currently on a 7900GRE, its the first AMD card i got since the GTX970 (I've had several nvidia cards since then), and i don't know what driver issues you're complaining about. whatever issues amd has with drivers is long dead and over.

That said it's not like amd is perfect, their FSR is awful, but then so is NVIDIA DLSS, it's just dlss is less awful. that doesn't mean i'd ever play with either feature enabled.

as for raytracing, call me when more then 3 games use it in a way i can notice it. the current list of games in which ray tracing is obvious when turned on are Forza, Cyberpunk (especially modded), and Wuthering Waves. while the number of games which boast ray tracing is significantly more, most have such small implementation they fact of the mater is you'll never notice it.

nvidia has disabled physx on the 5000 series. so the main advantage to cuda cores is basically gone.

The drivers thing is just constantly parroted by people who probably never had AMD. This isn't the Rage 128 days when drivers was a valid argument. Sure there are problems from time to time but they get fixed. Nvidia certainly isn't immune. Case in point, Black(screen)well.
 
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I think it's safe to assume that Doom: Preternal is going to run amazing on everything - although playing through Doom Eternal again, I think I completely loathe that game - so hopefully they swing back toward the design of Doom 2016.

From the info they have released that seems to be the case. Doom 2016, play it the way you want. Doom Eternal, play it the way we want you to play it. Force you to use certain weapons and attachments. Lots of platforming just because!
 
The die size of Navi 48 (9070/XT) is 390mm.
GB203 (5080/5070Ti) is 378mm
GB205 (5070) is 263mm
Navi 31 (7900XTX/XT/GRE) is 529mm
Navi 32 (7800/7700/XT) is 346mm
But critically, Navi 31/32 are MCM, where as Navi 48 is monolithic, just like nvidia.

I'm quite sure AMD won't sell their chips at a loss, but Navi 48 is larger and more expensive to produce than a down binned 5070Ti.
well, sadly the latest rumour is that they are hinting below $700, which is likely $699 for 9070XT, aka the good old $50 below Nvidia strategy, so seems like the good old AMD is still around, just to not miss an opportunity to...
 
It's 100% on NVIDIA.
Having chips with defects on a production wafer is a normal occurrence. Defective parts on chips regularly get fused off and the chip gets binned down to a lower tier GPU (or CPU) die.
In the end Nvidia will hold the bag but I wonder who does the checks and have a feeling TSMC might be partly to blame. These should all be binned by them before going to Nvidia, so if they were improperly binned it could be a both screwed up situation. Will be interesting to see where it turns out the failure was, but either way most people will just blame Nvidia and in that way they should have double checked everything.