teh_chem :
Same old story from the Tegra line year after year at tech shows. Blazing benchmark results in demo devices vs. existing processors, little-to-no details on the platform, then lackluster comparisons to current processors by the time its released. Let's just see how it pans out. Tegra 1-4 were overhyped. Where are all of these Tegra 4 and 4i devices? So far, relatively few tablets are using Tegra4 despite being out for 4-6 months, and 4i apparently still hasn't deployed to devices. And now allegedly "Tegra5" still won't have on-chip LTE support. I'm curious what Nvidia's internal direction with Tegra really is.
I'm sure some fool will say TL
😀R but they can feel free to ignore it, and move along as it's relevant product info directly refuting your comments at points. All good info for people wanting any of these and probably not knowing about the (just as you seem to be ignorant of their existence. This chip is very good as the EVGA shows at laptopmag and here at toms K1 article. It clearly trades blows and as REAL games fire up this year I think we'll see NV separate from the pack. Not sure why NV doesn't do a better marketing job for all these or buy a few models an ship them to reviewers. But I don't see over-hyped as T3's cpu still holds up in many things which is why it's just an amped up version for T4i which I'd guess will beat S600 and come close to S800. It's running 500-600mhz faster and a newer A9 rev which should bring perf very close to OLD A15 which is par or better with S800.. GPU should be on par with S600 or faster probably in many things (depends on gpu clocks) which is perfect for phones. T1-4 were basically Tablet only with no modems vs. Qcom. That's over now with a product for each market, and probably later this year (20nm model?) ONE model with or without modems. Unless NV's new strategy is a product for both markets going forward. Direction seems simple currently. A better product for two distinct markets: one low power phone with near top end perf at <$300, and one gaming tablet with the best they can shove into it.
Most of the list below was compiled 4-5 months ago and I'm probably missing some but you should get the point. I just updated it with a few new ones, but not exhaustive search. None of your claims hold much water, as each was good the day they arrived (well maybe not T1) and all have been dissected with "deep dives" like any other chip. Also T4 as shown here performs very well TODAY even late vs. S800 as the links show and this article we're commenting on. It wins 1/2 the benchmarks vs S800 tablet to tablet and the xiaomi mi3 is very impressive also linked below (xiaomi bragged about T4 version of this phone NOT Qcom...Hmmm). I don't know why review sites seem to ignore the list of devices below. The toshiba's/hp's have been out for months. How was T4 over-hyped? Perf is there, just lacking a modem keeping it out of phones which is what T4i is for. Doesn't over-hyped mean blown away by the competition as you come up short from claims?? That isn't happening. They claimed it would beat S800 in many things and it does. Or you're saying laptopmag and tomshardware are just liars? Antutu4 shows T4 Evga smacking 2.3ghz S800 here in K1 article. Xiaomi
As for T4i the modem just got certified last month for ATT so no surprise phones are not out yet. You can't put a phone out without the cert unless you go with a different company's modem which isn't ideal. But from this point on they will have that done and can include it in all future chips. It's already demoed ages ago at 150mbps which is the coming LTE standard (are any networks fully rolled out yet?). Software update-able too, so they may be able to do even more as the 150 was had with a firmware update only months after the 100mbps demo at MWC.
http://www.pcper.com/news/Mobile/NVIDIAs-i500-SDR-LTE-Modem-Achieves-150Mbps-Throughput-During-CITA-2013-Demo
I expect some phone announcements this Q for T4i now that some companies can use the modem, before that how do you announce a product for a modem that isn't PROVEN? You can't really. But the xiaomi mi3 benchmarks show T4i is very impressive if it really gets into $100-200 phones and even $300 would be a decent chip. Considering the much larger T4 is already in $199 devices I don't see why a 1/2 size T4i can't do the same with a mostly software modem. MI3 is $327 IIRC so even T4 can nearly get into a $300 phone. They've certified 2 modems (i400, i500) now in 18 months. Not bad for a gpu company, Icera was a good move.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/03/toshiba-launches-tegr...
2 toshibas with T4 (and a 3rd with a T3)
Vizio has a T4 (and T3) coming also that they showed at CES last year (not sure of model names or when).
Asus Transformer Pad Infinity (TF701T),
HP SlateBook x2
HP AIO device Slate 21-K100 ($399) not to mention
HP slate 7 extreme ($199)
HP slate 8 pro ($239), clearly you can get into $200 devices with T4.
Mad Catz MOJO
BungBungame's Kalos tablet uses T4 also
Kobo Arc10 HD
Shenzen SXV Home Fly One 7in tablet
Xiaomi Mi3 handset
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Xiaomi-Mi3-scores-highly...
Looks like T4 owns the top of the list right? Xiaomi phone is impressive. Why has nobody benchmarked this vs. S800 version yet? They make a model with both with exact specs except for the S800/T4. I guess it gets ignored since it's not a USA phone yet (if ever?).
http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/1949/acer-prepping-tegr...
Acer with TA272 HUL (27in AIO)
Of course we can't forget SHIELD either which will rev yearly as Jen said and gain more and more on consoles as more android games get gamepad mapping and I'm sure more and more will be made with this in mind since Samsung will be shipping their next top phones with gamepads out of the box. Basically 50-100million samsungs will have gamepads next year most likely and that isn't counting everyone else doing gamepads on mobile now. Clearly we are about to migrate from touch crap games to REAL console type stuff even for touch devices.
Surface RT rev2 (I think RT kills anything, but it's another device)
Couple those with Ouya, gamepop, wikipad etc and I think tegra 3/4 has a pretty good year lined up even before the T4i hits in a few weeks or so. Hp, Toshiba, Microsoft, Asus, Acer all showing tegra 4 support.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/NVIDIAs-rumored-Tegra-4-...
ZTE also has Geek U988S & Geek CDMA N988 phones coming. I'm sure I'm missing a few devices but these are already coming. I think both of the phones are 1.8ghz so clearly a T4 can run in these (mi3 is the same 1.8ghz I think).
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=4460&c=zte_geek_cdma_n988
specs for the u988s on that site also and others.
Tegra tab7's from PNY, EVGA, Gigabyte now also.
Wexler.Terra in 7in & 10in for Russia:
http://wexler.ru/news/94fa77be-a5cd-e211-9a79-002590198349
64GB and 1920x1200 (My dell 2407 res...jeez). Why can't we get more of this in USA. No reason to go above this or 1080p on such small screens and all it does is kill the gaming to run 2560x1600 etc. I'd rather have a lower res with tons of effects than higher res and most of the PC effects turned down or off. 1600p should be dead on tablets until 16/14nm at least for all SOC vendors. Xbox1/ps4 can barely push 1080p and not always in 100w+ boxes. A wave of common sense needs to come over the OEM's ASAP.
T4 might have been 6 months late (ON PURPOSE) but it's gaining now that it IS out in quantities that can satisfy more launches. There is a reason they chose their own LOW volume product to launch with. It was the only thing you could satisfy really at launch and was a great way to demo the power of it in gaming. But really all revs to this point were just losses until desktop met mobile. I'd even say this rev isn't the real one until the Denver cores hit. At that point you have custom cores that should get Qcom/Apple like power on the cpu, the best gpu they can get into mobile (kepler) and a software modem that also reduces costs, power (hopefully, jury still out on this until T4i hits) and may be upgradable again past 150mbps LTE. With a growing Tegrazone game list you should be able to see how NV is gaining serious leverage this year even if you hate NV and at worst will cause others to up their "GAME" on socs.
During CES they also said they had K1 signed up for 25million cars under contracts. They mentioned a car uses 4 chips (not sure why or if they ALL do), so that could mean 100mil units (said over the next few years, even 3yrs would be good at 4 chips x 25mil) in just cars. I'm guessing 4x $25 SOCS in a car ($100) is nothing to most $15000+ cars. One to run the dash, one for backing up (object distance), going forward (objects again for warnings), lanes or speeds etc? On purpose or does it really require 4 socs to run a cars electronics and to keep us from doing stupid wrecks? Does it drive for me with 4 K1's?...LOL. At the rate we're going the next generation probably won't ever need a drivers license and maybe insurance will actually go DOWN for a change if we remove all the crazy teens from the roads, DUI's etc. I mean cars can't drink and drive right?
I'm looking forward to my new chauffeur and acting like a rich guy drinking in the back seat all day...LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNggCj-cb6M
About 4 minutes in you get the car details from hardwarecanucks interview. So far only Nvidia is listed as a member for chips. I'd also guess the best GPU will be in the next Nexus devices as gaming takes the stage. That means NV probably in at least one google device if not more.
One more I forgot: Huawei Tron with T4 for $120! Ouya just got owned. Straight Jellybean from what I can tell + T4 for $20 more
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/huawei-tron-console,25720.html
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tablets/evga-tegra-note-7.aspx
Not bad vs. S800 2.2ghz in Kindle Fire HDX, Note 8 etc...Half the price of Note8, Stylus that Nexus7 2013 is missing, and same mapping software for gamepads as shield. Rev2 for all tegra tabs coming shortly no doubt as K1 kicks in. Not that I would transcode on a phone or tablet but it's quick here, and toms K1 benchmarks here also show EVGA T4 tablet rocks S800 in some stuff.
Note how long it takes to get something to the shelf as shown with Acer's 27in which was shown in early July just hitting now (basically 4.5-6 months from date you get a SOC at your doorstep - just FYI for people):
http://androidcommunity.com/acer-tablet-benchmark-leaks-with-2560x1440-wqhd-display-and-tegra-4-20130711/
Porting should be simple from consoles or PC's as shown by getting Serious Sam 3 (2011 PC game not bad) & Trine2 running in a few weeks with most of that time being spent on mapping controls. Unreal 3 was ported in days so clearly ALL PS3/PS4 games being OpenGL along with a lot of PC games being on that API (or DX 11.2) will extend NV's gpu reach even more now. Consoles had a good xmas, but pre-orders are over now, time to see how Q1+ does.
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Mobile/NVIDIA-Tegra-K1-Kepler-meets-ARM-Project-Denver-Surfaces/Mobile-Gaming-New-Life-Keple
"Imagine a market in which nearly all of the previous generation console titles are available for Tegra K1 based products thanks to the portability of the graphics API."
Exciting no matter how you slice it and bad for Next Gen consoles right? K1 is the REAL tegra and the Denver versions are the whole shebang (ALL custom NV gpu and cpu). I'm guessing a lot of devs would do a few weeks work to port old titles to K1 or the 20nm one coming at some point. Heck NV could fund that for the biggest ones easily just to get things going now that we have OpenGL 4.4, DX11.2 etc in there. It's a long term game plan and they were willing to lose money on Tegra for 4yrs (5?) to get here (which basically is funded by the Intel settlement anyway). It costs 1.2-1.8B & 5yrs to make a custom cpu which is pretty much the Intel settlement and where we're at later this year.
A little more info now that CES is digested for anyone who cares?
Lenovo Tegra 3 N308 all-in-one just announced? I don't see how this sells vs. a T4 that can't cost more than another $15 per chip. $450 coming next month? I'm confused, but what do I know...LOL. T4 is the almost the exact die size of T3 and I doubt they are even $10 apart. This will sell about as well as a Surface R1 IMHO and you can get a crap laptop for $450 that runs full windows, and this thing ships with 4.2 not Kitkat. Again, confused for a next month product. Toshiba and HP have T4's in AIO for $500 or less.
Ignorance is over now right?
😉 The only question now is how it sells going forward. Don't assume T4 doesn't exist because of a lack of reviews. Do they have this many S800 tablets/AIO's yet? I see a lot of phones (obviously, great modems=no brainer still), but not as many tablets from what I see yet but maybe I'm not looking hard enough since I want NV for gaming period on mobile (until someone else gets a tegrazone going)
Is S800 a failure and over-hyped too? I think not. I don't think we can say T4 is a failure for at least another 6-9 months as many devices are just hitting shelves due to the delay. How much success can it actually get with NV purposely cutting it's life short with K1? A few hundred million in lost revenue on T4 is OK if you own most of 2014 with K1's gpu IMHO. Qcom piled up 40B in cash on the backs of modems being special over the last ~10yrs (and ~$6.85B TTM profits! NV 1/10th that). IF NV pockets 1/4 of that over the next 10yrs in mobile I'm sure they'll look back an laugh at the K1 move and T4 delay. Qcom profits are not expanding with revenues now so Jan 29th will be very interesting (earnings day). Now that everyone has modems this year and margins are about to take another tumble (I'd guess), I predict QCOM is heading for an Apple like stock spill this year or next as the GPU changes the playing field.
Based on Intel vs. AMD/NV in gpus, I'd bet on NV vs. Qcom. Intel lost the vid card race years ago (i740), larrabee sucked and got cancelled, and they can't even dethrone BROKE AMD with APU's. How bad are your engineers when you can't take out a near bankrupt company (with $6B+ in losses over the last 10yrs) while making 10Bil per year? They pocket ~75Billion over the same 10yrs but can't beat AMD or NV? Clearly making a game cpu is tough right because Intel isn't full of idiots right and is comparably RICH correct? IMG.L apple kings, were forced from desktop gpus also. Along with dozens of others as the list of defunct GPU companies and products is LONG.
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