Nvidias 6800

kinney

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Aye. Largest performance leap ever.
Compared to the 9800XT and 5950Ultra, price/performance the card is actually very cheap.
50-100% real world gaming increases usually come at more than a $100 premium over last generations best cards.

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kinney

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Too early?
Its already happened.

Frankly, for those who hate NV, it is TOO LATE!

Do I need to do the calculations and show that it indeed is?

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Nothing has already happen, Ati hasn't released there response to this card yet, And I believe he is correct the biggest Performance increase still belongs to the 9700pro.

If I remember correctly The 6800 ultra is anywhere from 60-90% and sometimes abit over 100% faster in certain games against the 9800XT.

Where as the 9700pro was in its peek anywhere from 100-250% faster than the ti4600.
 

kinney

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Aye it has happened.

ATI is a day late and a dollar short coming to the table.

Just because you wish it hadnt happened does not make it go away.

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kinney

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Click <A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-27.html" target="_new">here</A>... take a look, and tell me the same thing again and I would call you blind.

Right now I'm questioning your honesty.. I would only call you a blind idiot if you responded with the same response.

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Ion

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Nvidia made very nice leap in OpenGL again, but its DX performance increase wasn't as dramatic(especially in DX9).

PS. halo is one poorly coded port, i still don't get it why many sites/mags use it as DX9 benchmark......

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kinney

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Its DX9 performance was also quite the leap. From either ATIs performance point or especially their own.

40% and 100% improvement in <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-42.html" target="_new">Far Cry</A> here over the 9800XT.
Its as its still being detected as an NV30 according to Toms.

The <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-41.html" target="_new">other benchmarks</A> still show good improvement for beta drivers on a game that hasnt been fully updated for the NV40s abilities.
Regardless, its still above the 9800XT by quite a margin considering we were talking around the meager 50FPS mark to begin with.. it shows how intensive this game really is when it brings down the 9800 XT to its knees.

Come on guys, I think your trying awefully hard to be hard on the NV40 and theres just too much evidence and critical acclaim from the experts to state otherwise and hold credibility in those statements.

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Crashman

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No, they're upset with you over your stupid attempt to prove that the release of the 6800 makes the former release of the 9700 not noteworthy. As if the past 2 years didn't exist for nVidia.

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kinney

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You're a stupid attempt.
I never said it wasnt 'noteworthy'.

How many times do I have to say the NV30 was a failure?

Do you want me to repent or something?
No one <b>ever</b> said that ATI didnt dominate for the last 2 years.

Point being, if they think downplaying the 6800 Ultra is the correct reaction to me showing how it was the biggest performance leap ever.. thats a ridiculous response (an indirect response, more along the lines of "well, I like ATI and I'm putting my head in the sand, so take that!).. which only further makes them to appear not credible.

I mean, NV has their number. So what?
Just face the facts.

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flamethrower205

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I'm wondering though how NV will time their driver releases and gamers will optimize games. If you think about it, from a profitability POV, currently NV shouldn't release super optimized drivers yet so that they have a trick up their sleaves. Then when the new Ati card comes out, if it really kicks ass, NV will release the super drivers. However, let's say the two cards compete nicely/ NV wins by a bit, then they may further save that boost for a little later should Ati release something new faster than NV can. In a sense, we may be relying on Ati for max 6800U performance! (or I could be totally talking out of my ass, choose one :tongue: )
Opinions?

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by flamethrower205 on 04/15/04 11:22 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

kinney

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I'm wondering though how NV will time their driver releases and gamers will optimize games. If you think about it, from a profitability POV, currently NV shouldn't release super optimized drivers yet so that they have a trick up their sleaves. Then when the new Ati card comes out, if it really kicks ass, NV will release the super drivers. However, let's say the two cards compete nicely/ NV wins by a bit, then they may further save that boost for a little later should Ati release something new faster than NV can. In a sense, we may be relying on Ati for max 6800U performance! (or I could be totally talking out of my ass, choose one)
Opinions?

I think you may have a great point. Its very clear that the review drivers were not very well optimized. They didnt get to do the video/multimedia chip at all so they put nearly all their attention on 3d performance.
But I would wager that since they apparantly barely got that done and didnt even touch the video chip, theres still plenty of room for optimization as you predict.

I think for sure theres plenty of room for improvement as far as DX9 shader performance is concerned.

But I think you are correct in that we are relying on ATI for max 6800 Ultra performance. Not many companies go beyond minimum requirements and expectations (ATI), and some go far beyond (NV) and it is always obvious when you use the products which has that extra "love" put into them.
What I'm essentially saying is that without challenge, ATI would be much worse.
Look who has benefited from the last two years the most?

Without a doubt in my mind, ATI.
They were abysmal (compared to NV) previous to their work on the Catalysts and the beneficial engineering can mostly be cued up to the ArtX aquisition IMO.

The 6800 is also quite a gift from the competition.
As far as technology and speed is concerned, I'd wager (and have been stating rather loudly) that NV has given us the single biggest boon ever with it. Not to mention having about equal or better IQ than ATI now.

As far as company improvements, ATI has benefited the most.
NV on the other hand, operates like a ruthless machine and did many shameful decisions.
Not that the Quack 3 issue was not equivalent and that IQ hacks do not exist in present ATI drivers.. they do, always have and always will.

In theory, perfect "most supreme" IQ would result in 0FPS.
Trade offs MUST be made in favor of other things.
Hence my dismissal of the entire issue, its all about where you draw the line.
But when you argue in favor of ATI thats really all you have.

I chose to build up ATI for their performance, not attempt to tear down Nvidia like this forum did.
Doing it like many in this forum does, really makes it appear as they are attempting to drag DOWN NV to ATI's level.
They really had me convinced for two years, that this was the necessary situation to boost ATI.
Hence now, I am a bit more dismissive of ATI than I wouldve been if not presented with such negativity.
The personal attacks only FURTHER my resolve to beat the truth into their small, indignant heads.


Back on subject, I do think that theres a crapload of performance held within the NV40 still, most will be unleashed on the advanced X800XT launch as it will present the most battle for the NV40.
But if you were to ask me, I think the NV40 has a great chance of wasting it as well.

But it really sets ATI back as they will likely remain a day late.. the X800XT release advance is a telling tale as ATI knows more than we do.

Not only is there alot left in the NV40, but NV has traditionally maxed out their architechures. I remember back in the day the NV15 operating at the highest effiecency according to Anandtech.. besides the Kyro2 of course but only due to its tile based rendering architechure (the only way to get 100% efficiency to my knowledge).
Only topped by the

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Crashman

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No, it's just that you're calling this the most significant advancement ever...and other people are trying to point out that there have been similar advancements in the past. And your response is "you're trying to steal my glory", which is true when your "glory" is based on the false notion that nothing like this has happened before.

I still remember how fast the 128ZX was in DX5! w00t!

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kinney

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Of course its been done before.
I still think your taking what I'm saying as something different to what I'm really trying to say.

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kinney

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Well, I think across the board the 6800 Ultra was a greater jump than the 9700 Pro.. but whatever I'll drop it.

Just know deep down inside your cold little heart that this 6800 Ultra has beaten the snot out of any other previously set performance leap. :smile:

Lets rejoice that ATIs glory days are over, at least for awhile.. and know that the competition has brought this great tech.

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pauldh

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<Just know deep down inside your cold little heart that this 6800 Ultra has beaten the snot out of any other previously set performance leap. >

Kinney, I take it you were joking with this one, but by posting on and on that 6800U's performance leap is bigger than anything seen before, you end up pointing out the 6800U's only defeat. STick to the facts that it crushes anything we can buy now. It proved itself in performance and IQ. But when you enter into the "biggest performance leap ever" hogwash, you point out the only performance trophy that NV didn't win with the 6800U. Why blemish it's real huge victories by making up fictional other ones?

6800U crushed R9800XT and FX5950's performance while bringing IQ up to ATI standards in everything but farcry (so far, but this should change). Enjoy your NV victory, as nothing but possibly R420 can take that from you. And like I said before to you. No matter what R420 does, Nvidia's 6800U is a job well done.


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Kronos

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All ATI requires is 8 more "pipes" in its present 9800XT configuration and they have a 6800 equal. Rest assured...ATI will do more then that. But...for now..your right...the 6800 is THE CARD. It won`t be at years end.

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tsobd

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even ps2.0 are not very used yet in games, and ps3.0 on nv40 can be not very efficient, reason to r420 posibly
don t got it. after fx fake, nvidia lost confiability, i first see radeon stuff...