[SOLVED] NZXT H510 with 4x Case Fans

nvoyy

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Jul 9, 2020
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510
My motherboard has 3 PWM fan connectors but I have 4 case fans, 2x 140mm intake on the front, 1x 120mm extract on the top, 1x 120mm extract on the back.

When I first put the computer together I used a splitter on the 2x 140mm fans to solve the issue of only having 3 PWM connectors, with the other 2 fans taking up the other 2 slots. This seems to have worked out fine, fans were set up with motherboard Q-Fan control and have never had cooling problems I know of.

I plan to replace the 120mm stock fans for ones that match the intakes and wondered if it would be worth installing a fan hub? Is there any benefit to this over just using a splitter?
 
Solution
In hindsight should have probably went for a Meshify C but wasn't a big fan of the geometric pattern on the mesh
i see many recommending that Meshify due to it's nice internal layout and airflow but i also cannot stand that randomized odd pattern on the front, just appears very ugly to me.

but fractal Design does make some other very nice cases.
there are a few nice versions of their Define series
and my Vector RS is very nice, it may appear to lack in airflow but the large front-side vents actually pull in a ton of filtered air. have no issue keeping everything very cool & very quiet.
Was struggling to find a Lian Li at the time as well
they do make some very nice top-of-the-line cases but i had trouble finding one...
wondered if it would be worth installing a fan hub? Is there any benefit to this over just using a splitter?
only if you were planning on adding additional fans at a later time.

if you got a hub/controller that allows individual fan RPM control that would be a bonus, but many of those are rather expensive and not really necessary at all.
I plan to replace the 120mm stock fans for ones that match the intakes
i believe these 510s only support 120mm in the rear, so upgrading to a fan with higher airflow and less noise may be a benefit but it won't be a matching 140mm.
 
Offhand, no.

Are you changing for noise reasons, heat reasons, or just hobbyist fiddling?

I got be quiet! 140mms for the front, so was going to change the 120s to be be quiet! as well for no reason other than having everything the same.
 
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only if you were planning on adding additional fans at a later time.

if you got a hub/controller that allows individual fan RPM control that would be a bonus, but many of those are rather expensive and not really necessary at all.

i believe these 510s only support 120mm in the rear, so upgrading to a fan with higher airflow and less noise may be a benefit but it won't be a matching 140mm.

No plans to ever use more than 4. Having the splitter made me wonder if the intakes would be less efficient, that was the main reason for looking at a hub.

Honestly just wanted them all to be matching, but the ones I had planned to get as replacements have better airflow and are quieter.
 
was going to change the 120s to be be quiet! as well
their Silent Wings are some of the highest airflow while still some of the quietest available.
their Pure Wings are still pretty good too though.

i always use 140mm where applicable due to them offering higher airflow/air pressure at lower RPMs than the same model 120mm.
i would also replace the top with a 140mm, just sucks NZXT left the rear 120mm only.
always disappoints me when i see a nice case lacking in fan/radiator placement options.
 
i would also replace the top with a 140mm, just sucks NZXT left the rear 120mm only.
always disappoints me when i see a nice case lacking in fan/radiator placement options.

Might just do that, thanks. Have one of the 120s already, but didn't get the second so will grab a 140 for the top.

In hindsight should have probably went for a Meshify C but wasn't a big fan of the geometric pattern on the mesh. Was struggling to find a Lian Li at the time as well. Always next time..
 
In hindsight should have probably went for a Meshify C but wasn't a big fan of the geometric pattern on the mesh
i see many recommending that Meshify due to it's nice internal layout and airflow but i also cannot stand that randomized odd pattern on the front, just appears very ugly to me.

but fractal Design does make some other very nice cases.
there are a few nice versions of their Define series
and my Vector RS is very nice, it may appear to lack in airflow but the large front-side vents actually pull in a ton of filtered air. have no issue keeping everything very cool & very quiet.
Was struggling to find a Lian Li at the time as well
they do make some very nice top-of-the-line cases but i had trouble finding one that fit my needs and also allowed the fan/radiator placement options i was looking for.
their Lian Li Lan Cool II Mesh is really nice but suffers from the same lack of 140mm mounting options as the 510 series.

the best case i've seen and worked with in the last couple years is the be quiet! Silent Base 802.
if it had been available when i originally got this Vector RS i definitely would've gone with that.
 
Solution
Splitters and Hubs can do very much the same jobs IF the power limits are right. Both types of devices allow you to connect two or more fans to a single mobo fan header. When you do that, ALL fans on that connection device receive exactly the same power and control signals. IF those fans are identical, then their speeds and resulting air flows will be VERY close to each other. If the fans are different, then their performances will differ.

Recognize also that fans connected to DIFFERENT mobo fan header BUT fed the same signals (i.e., their two headers are configured identically) then those fans WILL match each other in performance IF they are identical fans. However, if they differ (for example, your situation with 140 mm fans on one header and 120 mm fans on another), then their performance will differ.

There is one vital factor in all this. Most mobo fan headers can provide power up to a max total load of 1.0 A per header. This directly impacts the choice if Splitter versus Hub. and WATCH OUT for the terms that sellers use for these devices - they often misuse the terms by treating them as meaning the same thing, and they are NOT. A SPLITTER is simple. It connects all its fans in parallel to the header, so the only source of power for those fans us what the header can provide. In using a Splitter, you MUST check the max current draw spec for each fan in the group and add them up. Most current fans max out at 0.10 to 0.25 A max current, so having three or four of these on ONE Splitter and header is OK. A HUB is a different device. The major difference is that it draws NO power for its fans from the mobo host header. Instead it uses an EXTRA connection "arm" to get power directly from the PSU via either a SATA power output or a 4-pin Molex output. These sources have much higher limits on max current available (4.5 A from SATA, more from Molex) so one rarely finds the total number of fans on a Hub exceeds the power limit. This is the easy way to connect many fans to a single header (without risking overloading the header's 1.0 A limit) and have them all receive the same signals. HOWEVER, almost all HUBS are designed to be able to control the speed ONLY of PWM 4-pin fans - they can NOT control the speed of older 3-pin fans. So if you have 3-pin fans, you can only use a Splitter for them. Hint on how to identify: a SPLITTER has ONE "arm" (or other input for certain designs) for input and two or more output "arms" for the fans. A HUB has those PLUS a third type of connection to the PSU for power.

OP, your plan is to keep on using 4 fans total - 2 140 mm front intakes and 2 120mm top and rear exhausts. None of those uses huge amps max. So you CAN do this with Splitters. You have one in use now, and you COULD (if you choose, but not necessary) use one more Splitter to connect both exhaust fans to ONE of your mobo headers.

One suggestion above was to upgrade to larger 140 mm fans for both the top and rear exhaust positions. In practice that would be almost impossible - the rear fan location, I am sure, cannot accept a 140 mm fan, although it may well be possible for the top. But there's another factor to consider that will impact what you choose. In setting up fans, one factor is the balance of air intake capacity versus air exhaust capacity. The background for this is that air flow capacity that is NOT equal (and that almost always happens) results in the air pressure inside your case being different from outside. If the internal pressure is marginally higher, then at any crack or leakage point the air will flow from inside to out. This is called "positive pressure" and means that no outside air containing dust can leak in at those points. The opposite unbalance (negative internal pressure) allows room air to leak in. Of course, to be effective as a dust preventive, this also means that the desired air intakes(your front fans) MUST have dust filters on them., and I full expect that your case has those. You just need to clean them from time to time. To achieve small positive pressure you can start with the count of fans in each function and their max air flow capacity ratings, although that won't be the final answer. Your current layout has two 140's front intake, two 120's exhaust. That is certainly more intake than exhaust capacity. Now add in this factor: the dust filters on the intakes actually reduce their capacity slightly, but they still will have more than your exhausts. IF you went to two 140's instead on the exhausts, the raw fan capacities would be equal, but the dust filters would make the real intakes slightly LESS than exhausts. You care not going to do that. But you are considering getting two new fans with HIGHER max airflow specs than your two old ones. Just check their ratings and add them up. That total should be a bit LESS than the total intake fan capacity.
 
OP, your plan is to keep on using 4 fans total - 2 140 mm front intakes and 2 120mm top and rear exhausts. None of those uses huge amps max. So you CAN do this with Splitters. You have one in use now, and you COULD (if you choose, but not necessary) use one more Splitter to connect both exhaust fans to ONE of your mobo headers.

Hi, thanks for your response, some really helpful stuff there.

The fan support for the NZXT H510 according to them is..
Front 2x120mm / 2x 140mm
Top 1x120mm / 1x140mm
Rear 1x120mm

Have done a little digging today and what I thought about doing was changing the intakes as well, and getting 2x high RPM 140mms for the intake (appreciate these are louder, but not something I am too bothered about). I read on Corsair that the high RPM models were recommended where there is a restriction, such as the dust filter, the H510 has filters on all intakes. Had a look at the currents as this isn't something I had considered and the input current for these is 0.5A each, so using the splitter on them might be a bit too close if I stick with a splitter on the 1A header.

Sticking with the plan of 140mm on the top and 120mm on the rear. The combined current of these is 0.42A.

Meaning I would have 2 high RPM 140mm intakes each running off their own header. And exhausting at 140mm and 120mm via a splitter, lower RPM. This, I'm hoping would guarantee that my intake is more than my exhaust.

With regards to airflow that would give 263.58m3/h (@12V) intake vs. 181.56m3/h (@12v). Maybe that would be too much?
If I stuck with what I had planned originally there would be a ~20m3/h different. Maybe this would be the best option?
 
what I thought about doing was changing the intakes as well, and getting 2x high RPM 140mms
which are you currently using?
you mentioned be quiet! and they produce some of the highest quality fans available.
their Silent Wings 3 High-Speed PWM are some of the most powerful while still being some of the most quiet you can find.

your front 140mm intakes will be fine sharing a header through a splitter.
also this way they can stay synced and share the same curve profile.

your top 140mm and your rear 120mm should be using separate headers so that you have separate control of their RPMs.

your internal air pressure is not only based on the amount of fans and their max airflow.
you can easily modify their separate fan curve profiles to allow more intake than exhaust.
having your front fans running at higher RPM than the top/rear exhaust can even out or surpass intake > exhaust ratio.
I used a splitter on the 2x 140mm fans to solve the issue of only having 3 PWM connectors
but if you only have 3x PWM headers what are you using for your CPU cooler's fan(s)?
do you mean there are only 3x additional headers after CPU_FAN & CPU_OPT?
 
which are you currently using?

At the moment I have 2 Silent Wings 3 140mm (the standard model) as the intakes.
And 2 Aer F 120mm as the extracts. Just the ones that came with the case.

but if you only have 3x PWM headers what are you using for your CPU cooler's fan(s)?
do you mean there are only 3x additional headers after CPU_FAN & CPU_OPT?

Yeah that's right. CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT and then 3 additional CHA_FAN headers.
So CPU_FAN is in use for my cooler.
CPU_OPT is spare.
CHA_FAN1 has the 2 140mms via splitter
CHA_FAN2/3 each have one of the 120mms
 
I have 2 Silent Wings 3 140mm (the standard model) as the intakes
these are fine, actually much better than the majority of fans out there.
even at their max 1000RPM they are still quieter than most.
not the highest air pressure but they still move a decent amount of air.

if you've purchased them recently maybe just return/exchange them and get the High-Speed PWM variants if you really want top of the line airflow/pressure.
 
if you've purchased them recently maybe just return/exchange them and get the High-Speed PWM variants if you really want top of the line airflow/pressure.

Had them a couple years now unfortunately. So was just my intention to replace the Aer Fs.

Notice your build has them in and out, if I was going to change to the high RPM models do you think I would be best to have them as both intake and exhaust?
 
if I was going to change to the high RPM models do you think I would be best to have them as both intake and exhaust?
them being some of the best fans out there is a good reason.
but maybe just use one of the standard models you already have as the top exhaust and use 2x of the High-Speed PWM as your front intakes.
and unless you're concerned about them matching, you may just want to keep your current 120mm in the rear.

i've tested ~30 different make & model fans over the last 10-12 years and found that for case airflow i got the best performance vs noise level & great aesthetics with these Silent Wings.
for heatsinks & radiators got the best performance with Noctua NF-A14 / F12 iPPC.

so i've stuck with these across my last 3 builds.
and i really don't like too much LED so i've always avoided RGB fans.
 
but maybe just use one of the standard models you already have as the top exhaust and use 2x of the High-Speed PWM as your front intakes.
and unless you're concerned about them matching, you may just want to keep your current 120mm in the rear.

I have one new 120mm SW3 lying around, so that's fine. Would just need to get the 2 high speed fans then, and swap one of my current intakes to the top.

When I looked earlier, in terms of airflow the highspeed fans both at full power would produce 263.58m3/h
The 120 and 140 exhaust fans (normal RPM) together could move 181.56m3/h.
Creating quite a big difference.

I suppose it is unlikely they will ever all be going at full speed but is that something I would just manage with the fan curves?

On that, do you have any tips for setting curves? I just used the optimiser in my Bios before and everything has been fine since.
 
as long as you have a positive air pressure inside the chassis there will not be much, if any, of an issue.
this keeps dust & dirt from being sucked into cracks & crevices while also forcing any warmed air out and towards the exhaust fans.
with the new setup, even with all 4 at full speed you would still be in good shape.
do you have any tips for setting curves?

i just posted my current fan curve profile data for another member earlier today so here you go,
i have AIO radiator fans; 30°C @ 30%, 50° @ 50%, 70° @ 85%

front panel fans; 30° @ 30%, 50° @ 45%, 70° @ 65%
front based on CPU temp

bottom & rear; 30° @ 45%, 50° @ 55%, 70° @ 85%
bottom & rear based on GPU temp

CPU @ 5.2GHz never passes 65°C with very CPU intensive games, usually hangs around 55-60° with more non-CPU intensive games.
GPU has never passed 60°C, no matter what game.
using ASUS AI Suite III Fan Xpert for software curve control.
you can compare to my 'Cooling' setup spoiler in my signature.
 
So your current plan is:
Two new 140 mm Silent Wings PWM High Speed at front intakes;
One (previous front intake) 140 mm Silent Wings PWM (regular) moved to top rear exhaust position;
One spare you have already 120 mm Silent wings PWM (regular) at rear exhaust

Yes, that would give you lots of air flow at reasonable noise - likely even less noise than the specs indicate. It would produce a significant air flow capacity imbalance toward positive pressure, but you may not want to alter that. There is no inherent down-side to having too much intake capacity and slightly higher internal pressure. If you DO alter that, the only way really would be to set up custom fan curves for the front two fans to slow them down to match the capabilities of the smaller rear fans. That means limiting them, when your original intent was to get much higher air flow than you already have. Seems you'd just defeat your original aim. If you do NOT do that and simply configure ALL of your CHA_FAN headers identically using the default fan curves you will get max possible air flow when you need it (automatic control according to measured temperatures), much lower air flow and noise under most operating conditions, and slightly higher internal air pressure than you need. The last point does not really matter.
 
The last point does not really matter.

I think that was the thing that was confusing me, struggling to find anything meaningful online with regards to the intake vs. exhaust ratio. Most things I've read just say its preferable to have a slight imbalance favouring your intake. What is considered slight?

I think I will stick with the current plan as you mentioned for now, may have to spend a bit more time looking into setting up the fans correctly.
 
Look in this thread

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...ice-for-pc-newb-please.3750078/#post-22611890

at my Post #11 (upper right corner) on Thurs Feb 18/22 - the last two paragraphs. It explains the way to use a smoke tracer to quantify air pressure imbalance and adjust that IF you wish. I agree with you - go the simple route first. LATER if you thnk it would actually be an improvement, you can use this method to fine-tune.
 
Look in this thread

Okay will do, at first glance had noticed where another user mentioned how 140x2 and 120 is a pretty common intake/exhaust arrangement, and this is fairly widely accepted. Got me thinking a little bit and looked at the numbers of flow for that configuration vs. what I thought, and the numbers are fairly similar. In fact there is a bigger difference with the 140x2in and 120out.

That has put my mind at rest there.

So am going to go with 2x High RPM 140s coming in, each with their own header.
And a normal 140 and 120 going out, split between one header.
Will spend a bit of time looking at the fan curves and trying to optimise that as well.

Thanks for your help and advice all, really helpful.