News ODROID-H2+ An x86 Board to Challenge Raspberry Pi?

bit_user

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Might be a great router or security appliance. About 3 times more expensive than Pi.
It's actually somewhat overkill for that.

They try to market those 2.5Gbits. I doubt this box has sufficient CPU power to make use of it though,
Lol, are you serious?

A CPU like that can easily manage 2.5 Gbps. It's a lot more than what you find in some NAS boxes that have 10 GigE connections, even.
 

vov4ik_il

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Lol, are you serious?

A CPU like that can easily manage 2.5 Gbps. It's a lot more than what you find in some NAS boxes that have 10 GigE connections, even.
It would do ok for software switching and routing (rewrite the header), but Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) is much (much much) more CPU hungry. So is VPN encryption/decryption. NAS boxes do not do any of that stuff.

Edit: Firewall Hardware Sizing Guide
 
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CerianK

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Hey, according to PassMark, that single 4C/4T processor is about 50% faster than my old 4C/8T Dell Precision 670's pair of circa 2007 Xeon DP Processors.
Ok, that is enough... time for the dumpster (when I have time to figure out where to put the 6TB of archive data it is hosting across 3 SATA drives).
Say what you will about Dell, but most of the Precision systems are built like tanks (except for the T3600s that shipped with sub-par non-TLER rated Seagate drives of a similar series to the ones that were recalled in the Apple TV... seen over a hundred of those drives fail within the warranty period).
 
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bit_user

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(when I have time to figure out where to put the 6TB of archive data it is hosting across 3 SATA drives).
That board has 2 SATA connectors, and you could probably install a 3rd in the M.2 slot (depending on whether it supports SATA M.2 drives).

You can also get the same type of SoC on a mini-ITX or micro-ATX board, with more features:


Say what you will about Dell, but most of the Precision systems are built like tanks
Their stuff seems overpriced and I don't like their use of proprietary PSUs in desktops and workstations, but I do like their servers.

The precision workstations are pretty cool, but they tend to be limited in how many drives they can accommodate.

The cases of their older workstations are nearly as heavy as tanks, too.
 
Jun 18, 2020
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The Odroid-H2 has been on my list for months because it’s an impressive x86 SBC for a low price. Unfortunately, it’s hard to justify $350(SBC board, case, AC adapter, BT module, wifi module, LED power button, plus taxes and shipping from hardkernel or ameridroid). I live in Canada and import duties are expensive($100), this does not include ram($64 for dual channel for a total of 8 Gb). Grand Total of $514 for a working Odroid-H2+. I can build myself locally a microATX PC with a much powerful Ryzen 5 3400G, a B450m pro mobo, 8Gb ram, antec case, 500w PSU for $484(taxes included). I'd rather pass. Got two(2) new Rpi 4 8Gb locally for $230 including taxes instead.
 
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Jun 18, 2020
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I have a Protectli 4 port box with j3160 which is essentially very similar to this and has Intel NICs. It is significantly cheaper.
For I2C and GPIO it would need a USB piece attached to it though.
Awesome machines. I was looking at FW2B – 2 Port Intel ® J3060. They look rugged and industrial. Well worth at $179.
 

domih

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It would do ok for software switching and routing (rewrite the header), but Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) is much (much much) more CPU hungry. So is VPN encryption/decryption. NAS boxes do not do any of that stuff.

Edit: Firewall Hardware Sizing Guide
It's actually somewhat overkill for that.


Lol, are you serious?

A CPU like that can easily manage 2.5 Gbps. It's a lot more than what you find in some NAS boxes that have 10 GigE connections, even.
Yep, google or binge for "odroid h2 ludicrous speed". Using this exotic setting, I managed to reach 11Gbe or 14Gbe depending on iperf3 direction. It's the real max practical limit I found, not the theoretical. Speed obviously goes down using SSL (i.e. rsync over SSL), in the same way it goes down with 1Gbe. I also tried an SFP+ 10Gbe SolarFlare card and it ran at 9.3Gbe on the H2. In both cases, the CPU 4 cores still had plenty of reserve power (seen using htop). The Celeron J4105 and J4115 include the AES instruction set, see ark intel relevant page.
 
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domih

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The Odroid-H2 has been on my list for months because it’s an impressive x86 SBC for a low price. Unfortunately, it’s hard to justify $350(SBC board, case, AC adapter, BT module, wifi module, LED power button, plus taxes and shipping from hardkernel or ameridroid). I live in Canada and import duties are expensive($100), this does not include ram($64 for dual channel for a total of 8 Gb). Grand Total of $514 for a working Odroid-H2+. I can build myself locally a microATX PC with a much powerful Ryzen 5 3400G, a B450m pro mobo, 8Gb ram, antec case, 500w PSU for $484(taxes included). I'd rather pass. Got two(2) new Rpi 4 8Gb locally for $230 including taxes instead.
There is a reason why you may need both :) The Celeron J4105/4115 TDP is 10W, that of the Ryzen 5 3400G is 65W. So if you want to setup a 24x7 running NAS or server, the H2 is a better solution (and silent) on the long term from an energy saving POV (meaning $$$ and being an environmental nice person). As a desktop, yes the Ryzen 5 3400G is more powerful 4C/8T vs 4C/4T, higher frequency, Zen+ IPC, faster memory and so on. I own both so I know they're both good systems for doing similar or different things. I also know for a fact that both leave the Pi 4B in the dust in terms of power compute, not talking about difference in double digit percentage here but rather in integer ratios. The H2/H2+ is fully usable as a "normal" desktop platform and can fit in a VESA case behind a monitor. Note that the max memory of the H2/H2+ is 32GB, not 8GB. You can do a lot of things with 32GB, like allocating large I/O buffers. For the pricing, it is debatable because, like for a mATX or mini-ITX solution, you can buy the accessories from 3rd party instead of the brand, changing significantly the final equation.
 
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May 19, 2020
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Articles like this are utterly ridiculous. This cannot challenge the Pi because it’s not in the same class. This is a lot more expensive than the Pi. It’s not an accurate comparison.
 
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domih

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<<...ODROID-H2+ An x86 Board to Challenge Raspberry Pi?...>>

I can understand you include Raspberry Pi in the title to "attract the customer" but really?

It's not even a challenge, the Odroid H2 and H2+ massacre the Pi 4B with no effort. Example: for testing raw compute power and SSD I/O, an H2 (with DB on the NVMe) will climb to inserting 19,714 row/s (using the Cassandra stress tool), the Pi 4B (with DB on a USB SSD) will climb to 2,971 row/s (both numbers at the stage of threads exhaustion).

BUT both devices are not in the same price range, not in the same hardware range, not etc. They are not comparable.

Should I write:

"AMD Threadripper 3960X board to Challenge Raspberry Pi?"
"AMD Threadripper 3960X board to Challenge Odroid H2+?"
"AMD Threadripper 3960X board to Challenge any low end CPU board?"
"AMD Threadripper 3960X board to Challenge any mid range CPU board?"

Because for the same kind of test, the TR3960X (with the DB on a RAID0 2xNVMe) climbs to inserting 284,857 row/s with 271 threads.
 
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vov4ik_il

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Yep, google or binge for "odroid h2 ludicrous speed". Using this exotic setting, I managed to reach 11Gbe or 14Gbe depending on iperf3 direction. It's the real max practical limit I found, not the theoretical. Speed obviously goes down using SSL (i.e. rsync over SSL), in the same way it goes down with 1Gbe. I also tried an SFP+ 10Gbe SolarFlare card and it ran at 9.3Gbe on the H2. In both cases, the CPU 4 cores still had plenty of reserve power (seen using htop).
Those numbers mean nothing for a firewall-router appliance, the throughput goes waaaaaaaay down when any traffic processing is required as a result of the weak CPU. The article "odroid h2 ludicrous speed" I googled talks about Infiniband interfaces, (I am actually familiar with those from Mellanox). It is completely irrelevant for this case either.

The Celeron J4105 and J4115 include the AES instruction set, see ark intel relevant page.
And so does J3160 which I have, and it measures less than 300Mbps with OpenVPN and moderate PPS, while i5-7200U is doing close to 900Mbps.
 
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domih

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Those numbers mean nothing for a firewall-router appliance, the throughput goes waaaaaaaay down when any traffic processing is required as a result of the weak CPU. The article "odroid h2 ludicrous speed" I googled talks about Infiniband interfaces, (I am actually familiar with those from Mellanox). It is completely irrelevant for this case either.


And so does J3160 which I have, and it measures less than 300MBps with OpenVPN and moderate PPS, while i5-7200U is doing close to 900MBps.
Hey, if that makes you happy to say so, it's fine by me :) You're entitled to your doubts and beliefs. Have a nice day.
 

Reginald_Peebottom

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It would do ok for software switching and routing (rewrite the header), but Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) is much (much much) more CPU hungry. So is VPN encryption/decryption. NAS boxes do not do any of that stuff.

Edit: Firewall Hardware Sizing Guide

Actually if you check pfSense hardware requirements, this is more than enough to run any residential network and likely most smaller business networks. It has far more CPU horsepower than most consumer routers available to say nothing of the RAM you can equip it with. Check out even several hundred dollar routers and they are using ARM based chips with modest amounts of ram and again this machine outclasses them on most fronts.

Regarding VPN, the Celeron J4115 has AES-NI instruction set and so vastly accelerates the decrypt/encrypt requirements of VPNs. Even without AES, most VPN crypto engines benefit from multicore CPUs such that, while not linear, the performance of a quad core (which the J4115 is) is close to 4x faster than a single core when processing encryption.

While it would be ideal that it had Intel NICs, realtek NICs are supported in pfSense (for example) and likely will work sufficiently for most usages except "serious" business networks of large size in which case you're not screwing around with this kind of DIY network appliance but getting a turn key solution with top flight hardware. The anti-realtek posts on many forums are usually people parroting what other people have posted and usually are more anecdotal (" I once had a problem and it must have been the realtek..." etc.). My experience has been realteks work from pfSense to unRaid without issue though again, ideally, I also err on the side of intel almost superstitiously.

The biggest issue with this kind of device though is that you can find used USFF PCs or even mini PCs that could be used as cheaper and in some senses superior network devices albeit at likely higher power usage and possibly size. Even some basic celeron laptops (like N3050 or better) also make solid home network DIY routers with a USB 3.0 Gigabit 2nd Ethernet adapter - and again, you can pick up used examples almost for a song.
 
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vov4ik_il

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Actually if you check pfSense hardware requirements, this is more than enough to run any residential network and likely most smaller business networks.
That is what I say.
Might be a great router or security appliance. About 3 times more expensive than Pi.
The only issue I have with this device is the price. It has not much to offer against other devices in its price range. AMD GX-424CC wins by performance per $, the old "protectli" that I linked earlier is more affordable considering the casing and power adapter that it comes with it. It is not a competitor for the RPi by IO and price and so on...
I have nothing against RTL NICs too. Well, I did not benchmark those (CPU usage by the driver). I sure do like Intels' wired NICs myself - just a loyal customer for so long.
 

CerianK

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[Dell's] stuff seems overpriced and I don't like their use of proprietary PSUs in desktops and workstations, but I do like their servers.
That old 670 I pulled out of the trash years ago. I replaced the two single-core CPUs, upgraded the RAM and graphics (all from eBay), and put some old WD Blacks and a new HGST 4TB in it. The latest glitch (of many, since I rescued it) was a Logitech Universal Transceiver in the midst of failure causing lockups and shutdown... weird. Oh, Logitech camera would periodically blue screen with its driver faulting (even if plugged into the add-in USB 3.0 port). Its like an old dog... you just put up with its quirks.

My other two new Precisions are rock solid (from eBay for $420 and $600). Oddly, there are few (or none) Precisions on eBay anymore that I would call a really good deal... AMD killed them (at least when you do the math on bang-for-the-buck), but the sellers haven't figured out how to react. The closest ones are dual Intel E5-2670v3 based (which at least have AVX2), but I would rather pay double what they are asking to get something more than twice as fast.
 

bit_user

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Articles like this are utterly ridiculous. This cannot challenge the Pi because it’s not in the same class. This is a lot more expensive than the Pi. It’s not an accurate comparison.
There have been several articles about industrial SBCs on this site, in the past few months, where I've said virtually the exact same thing. But those were all in the > $500 price range. And now that the 8 GB Pi v4 just launched at $75, that puts the H2+ and an 8 GB DIMM at well under twice the price.

So, I view it as in the same ballpark, but maybe a couple tiers up. Still worth discussing in the context of Pi-class machines, but yes, it's not a peer. There are lots of people doing things with a Pi that would be much happier with something like the H2+, so I consider it well worth a mention.
 

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