Oh yes, Core 2 is pretty damn amazing, but...

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To be fair, I'm not a die-hard "Intel sucks, AMD is the master of all things computing, despite all the benchmarks saying 'NOT ANYMORE'" fanboy.

Like I said, I like AMD because I built my first rig with an A64 CPU, and it's been great...but if you read closely, you'll see that I very well might be switching to Core 2 in the next month, because the performance in pretty much living up to the hype. I'm only posing a semi-hypothetical question in light of recent events, and seeing what other people think about it. It's not a bashing thread.

Anyway, I think AMD is trying to avoid the whole multi-socket conundrum again. They've already stated that the eventual socket AM3 processor can be used in an AM2 motherboard, and in light of Intel's price cuts and their own expansion and revision plans, they really can't afford to have a bunch of different product lines. Hence, the EOL for the 1MB cache AM2 CPUs, and quite a few 754 and 939 CPUs.
 
Yeah, I am going to be upfront and give my interpretation of the situation with AMD.... I will likely get blasted here by the BM's, 9-inch and such but judging from their debating skills I can hold my own :) ....


You argument is ok Core is great (and it is impressive from the data we have seen tonight and over the last month or so).... but wait until AMD has an answer. Let's take this point by point as you list above:

- 65 nm, don't get your hopes up for several reasons. First, the raw parametrics for transitor performance shown to date is not that impressive for AMD's 65 nm process. That is, they are not achieving the performance gains necessary to drive clocks up very high. From the data we see now, AMD will need to get to 3.6 to 3.8 GHz on the rev G release to surpass, and this simply will not happen. Even their roadmap shows the fastest 65 nm part will only be 2.8 GHz by Q3 2007 (a year from now). Second, 65 nm is a process technology and the affect of process technology on raw performance in computational performance is by clock speed -- simply building a 2.4 GHz K8 on 65 nm gives you no extra performance over a 2.4 GHz K8 built on 90 nm. Power maybe, performance no. Finally, volume shipment, if they keep to schedule, will not commence until at least Jan or Feb 07, 6-8 months from now.

- Wait for K8L -- this is your most compelling argument, however, if you truly look at the 'enhancement list' for K8L there are more bandwidth items on the plate and fewer IPC items -- and it is IPC that will determine it. Nonetheless, AMD would be better off not falling into the same Intel trap that plagued Netburst (i.e. release a subferior product than your competitor and try to run with it). I am of the opinion that AMD would rather be late on K8L than release a product that does not take back the performance crown, so I am confident that K8L will be spectacular. The question really boils down to time -- and that is where it get's ambiguous. The Inquirer is certain it is coming in Q1 07, others say mid-2007, and rumors in Taiwan say 2008. If Q1, then you only need to wait 6-8 months, if mid 2007 you have about a year, and if 2008 then 1 1/2 years before the crown changes back. Question is, are you willing to wait that long? It is a gamble sorta -- that AMD will deliver timely. They do not have a good track record on timely delivery, even after this spectacular market share grab --- K8 was actually late, 65 nm is very late, and there are rumors that K8L will be late. My take is that K8L will not see the light of day until 2008.

- K10 -- isn't even on the roadmap as a name, this should not be within your scope at this point in my opinion.

- What else under their sleeve -- well, this is the second most compelling arugment to go down the AMD road -- there is the 4x4 for those with money to burn that will not beat Core 2 in many cases, but will be cool. The second is opening up the cHT license, again you will be spending extra money because that tech does not exists, so if you do AM2 now you will be bying AM2+ (i.e. AM2 + new socket) MBs anyway, you have really not saved or positioned an upgrade for anything.

- RHT is a myth. Though conceptually, theoretically doable just not soley in hardware -- do not expect, in my opinion, a magical bios flash to do RHT and get an instant 30% bump.

Ok, there you go.... my thoughts.

Jack
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Blasting people with differeing opinions is the job of the Intel fanboys. I may disagree or present the opposite case but you guys AM, Spud, AND sometimes you, only want to hear how great Intel is.

Anyone who says otherwise is spreading FUD. Even though everytime I say something voila, it's in the news.

Poser.
Like How You Want To Paint AMD In A Golden Light!
 
Edit:
Blasting people with differeing opinions is the job of the AMD fanboys. I may disagree or present the opposite case but you guys AM, Spud, AND sometimes I, only want to hear how great AMD is.

Anyone who says otherwise is spreading FUD. Even though everytime you say something voila, it's in the news.
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45um will not be easy
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i disagree...

intel has already shown its working 45nm sram chips.

and also, intel has already shown to us how fast they can do a transition from 90nm to 65nm..

and intel is on thier track.. "there is new architecture for every 2years."

How naive...
 
I disagree, all signs currently show that Intel is on course with their 45nm and it should be in production by Q4 Next year.
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Read more carefully. It will not be easy. Each time there is a shrink, there are new challenges. Or do you think current trends will continue and we'll someday see sub-nm processes with today's semiconductor materials? Where do you think it ends?
 
I have to say that JumpingJack knows his stuff (I've seen a number of his other posts)...the first post he made was precisely the type of reply I wanted to read. I'm sure I wasn't the only one questioning the value of an AM2 build at this point, and I'm sure more than a few people learned something from what he posted. You write it down, you back it up...done.

Don't get me wrong...some of the posts are funny as hell...but I don't know why so many people want to just mess s@#t up and write total crap (i.e. needless malicious insults), instead of actually displaying a modicum of intelligence and writing something at least related to the original question.

Granted...sometimes the bashing is funny 😀 (I'm not some utopian tree-hugging idiot)...but I just didn't want the thread to become some fanboy bashdown, like 80% of the others.

Which reminds me: some Richard :? called me a "stupid sock puppet" earlier because I wanted to keep it all civil as much as possible...what the hell is an "acc" by the way? Both testicles are preseent and accounted for, by the way...

Game on, mofos...game on.
 
Nice to see your keeping it real JumpingJack ...keep it up 😀

Here is all I have to say...

At this point in the game, anyone who buys an AMD processor is either a die hard AMD Fanboy (Like Baron) or an uneducated computer nubcake. There is absolutely no reason to buy an AMD processor over and Intel core 2 duo Processor atm.

AMD had the throne...now Intel has it...
There is no reason to burn money on a companies crappy product (whether it's from Intel or AMD) when you could save money and get something that is much better price😛erformance from the other company.

Confession: I'm not a fanboy, I just buy whatever is better price😛erformance wise at the time.

No sense wasting money to support the losing company just because you like/love them....if they want your money, they had better make a worthy product.

I come from the absolutely spectacular AMD Athlon xp2500+ barton....it was the "must have" processor at one point in time, it smoked tons of Intel processors and overclocked like no other. Now the Core 2 Duo is the must have and I'm all over it and absolutely loving every bit of it.

Time to move on.
~3lfk1ng
 
@3lf,

I AM WAITING FOR THE REVIEW OF YOUR RD600!

@Jack
BaronBS has a selective amnesia. He does remember about the things he like, but he doesn't remmeber the things he don't like,
 
I bumped it for a reason.... when Baron makes an off the cuff 'take my word for it' post, you ask him for links it is either a) ignored, b) rebutted as 'look it up yourself' or c) I am to busy (translation, lazy) to provide the link.

Yet, when someone else asserts --- it is immidately 'STFU provide the links a-hole' :)

Very annoying.
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I figured people just ignored such information.
 
I bumped it for a reason.... when Baron makes an off the cuff 'take my word for it' post, you ask him for links it is either a) ignored, b) rebutted as 'look it up yourself' or c) I am to busy (translation, lazy) to provide the link.

Yet, when someone else asserts --- it is immidately 'STFU provide the links a-hole' :)

Very annoying.
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Well, agree with u

'If' i'm BM's employer, i would have fired him. Sometimes i wonder why brand loyalty(ies) are so hard to deal with, but when i join this forum, i can see clearly why...like some other guys posted, if you don't know the stuff, STFU...well, if i came across anything that i don't know, i will STFU n just read (or give question). So please, opinions are welcomed, but baseless, utter crap mostly unwelcome
 
3lfk1ng


I would respectfully disagree with you on that one.

If you have old parts, i.e. DDR ram, IDE HDDs, AGP Video, pre ATX 12V PSU etc, and want to make use of them, a NOS 939 mobo/CPU is pretty dam usefull, and fairly cheap. Not much point in trying to build either an AM2 or C2D system with those parts.

And..AMD is(or at least they were) closing the price/performance gap, though I expect Intel will open it back up again soon enough.

Peace
 
I was surprised to get an email showing my thread was alive again...I guess now I know why...
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:) Hey, would you mind PMing the mods to lock it up....

I 'bumped' it as I round the thread searching through for BM links that he requested. It made it's point.

Thanks,
Jack

Jack

As I slog through the mire of Jun/July/August posts (Im only now up to Jul 26) All a can say ---OMG. the failed predictions, the misquotes, the out of context information, the mis interpretations, tha arrogance.....jeez. Im getting ready to give up..I dont have the stomach to read more..its actually painfull
 
so would building an AM2 based system now be a form of "future proofing" (AM3 compatible, remember) for the tech they're going to trump Intel with?
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I'm not a fanboy of any kind - except for whoever is providing me the best cost/benefit/reliability ratio - whoever it is at that time.

First of all - I don't keep current on the AMD stuff, so I may be outdated here. (I personally chose Core 2 Duo after researching for my needs).
BUT - last time I read something on it, it said:

AM3 motherboard can run AM2 or AM3 chips.
AM2 motherboard CANNOT run AM3 chips, only AM2 chips.

Maybe this has changed? Maybe BIOS fixes/mods will be released to change it, etc. Maybe this was never true.

My point is you should (cuz I won't) VERIFY if this is true or not IF you are going to buy an AM2 system with the hopes it will be future proof.

If it is forward compatible - then good luck to you. I don't recommend it, but the future is anybody's guess.
If it's not compatible - then I definitely do not recommend it. If you MUST buy AMD, then wait for the Barcelona/Brisbane/whatever their new stuff is results, etc.
 
Slightly OT, but would an FX 60 vs a 3700+ be worth the additional cost? As I'm in AUS, the additional cost might also involve much travail.
 
3lfk1ng


I would respectfully disagree with you on that one.

If you have old parts, i.e. DDR ram, IDE HDDs, AGP Video, pre ATX 12V PSU etc, and want to make use of them, a NOS 939 mobo/CPU is pretty dam usefull, and fairly cheap. Not much point in trying to build either an AM2 or C2D system with those parts.

And..AMD is(or at least they were) closing the price/performance gap, though I expect Intel will open it back up again soon enough.

Peace
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Exception to the rule in a way.
 
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