Old build can't keep up...Upgrade advice?

[punitenshu]

So I just started playing FFXIV and was bummed to discover that my FPS bottoms out (like 5 FPS) every 5-10 seconds or so, and that it co-occurs with huge CPU spikes that max at least one core even with the game's graphics settings to their lowest.

I've got an AMD Phenom XII 1055t and a 1 GB XFX Radeon HD 5850 and I'm guessing that the CPU just isn't good enough to play this game at this point as the video card doesn't seem to see any stress until I put the settings at the 2nd highest presets the game provides, there's plenty of free RAM, the temps are normal, and I even formatted the PC and updated the drivers just to be sure it wasn't random driver/software issues.

So I'm wondering if my best option is just to upgrade my existing rig, start from scratch, or figure out if there's a way around the CPU problem. Would replacing the mobo, CPU, and video card be a good idea, and if so would the following setup be good and compatible with my major old components? (Old PC parts at bottom of post)

New components:
Intel 4770k CPU
MSI Z87-G45 Mobo
EVGA Nvidia GTX760 2GB

Old components:

4 GB Mushkin Enhanced Redline http://

NZXT M59 ATX Case http://

Corsair CMPSU-650TX Power supply http://

 

[NukaB]

Start from scratch. You don't want upgrade such an old rig, just start afresh and take your RAM from your old build to save you money, or just get new RAM all together.

 

[RobCrezz]

I dont see anything wrong with your upgrade plan. You will want to wipe and reinstall windows though.

 

[geofelt]

I agree, rebuild.
You will do just as well with a 4670K, save the $100 price premium. Games need fast threads, not more threads.

I think you will need to market your 1.65v ram too. 4gb is not enough for a 64 bit os, and 1.65v is at the limits of haswell.
Case, psu are ok.

 

[megamanx00]

One of your problems is only having 4GB of RAM. If your system is swapping textures between your hard drive and RAM it's gonna slow things down a lot. I'm in the same boat since I currently only have 4GB of DDR2. Had 8, but one set had issues and it's hard to get RAM with matching timings 😛. I assume though that you have a DDR 3 board. Also a single 5850 is a bit lacking for more demanding games so it may be worthwhile to pick up a second one on ebay to run in cross fire. I suggest you upgrade to 16GB or 32GB of RAM (depending on what your board supports) and good tower cooler to overclock your current CPU and squeeze some life out of it, and more importantly to make use of a newer CPU a little further down the line

What's your budget? Tell us your full system specs.

 

[punitenshu]

One of your problems is only having 4GB of RAM. If your system is swapping textures between your hard drive and RAM it's gonna slow things down a lot. I'm in the same boat since I currently only have 4GB of DDR2. Had 8, but one set had issues and it's hard to get RAM with matching timings 😛. I assume though that you have a DDR 3 board. Also a single 5850 is a bit lacking for more demanding games so it may be worthwhile to pick up a second one on ebay to run in cross fire. I suggest you upgrade to 16GB or 32GB of RAM (depending on what your board supports) and good tower cooler to overclock your current CPU and squeeze some life out of it, and more importantly to make use of a newer CPU a little further down the line

What's your budget? Tell us your full system specs.

The full specs are:
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz http://
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-880GA-UD3H http://
GPU: XFX HD-585X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5850 1GB http://
HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 ST1000DM005/HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM http://

Case, PSU, and RAM in first post.

I think that covers the important parts.

I don't have a set budget in mind. I just want to get back in business and as future-proof as possible for as cheaply as possible.

When the game is running I've still got 1.5 GB of free RAM, so at least from my relatively simplistic view of things that's not my first guess as to what the problem is. I just appreciate that the RAM is relatively slow compared to current sticks.

 

[JooseMoose]

So I'm wondering if my best option is just to upgrade my existing rig, start from scratch, or figure out if there's a way around the CPU problem. Would replacing the mobo, CPU, and video card be a good idea, and if so would the following setup be good and compatible with my major old components? (Old PC parts at bottom of post)

New components:
Intel 4770k CPU
MSI Z87-G45 Mobo
EVGA Nvidia GTX760 2GB

Old components:

4 GB Mushkin Enhanced Redline http://

NZXT M59 ATX Case http://

Corsair CMPSU-650TX Power supply http://

I think your best option is to replace the mobo, CPU and Video Card. The case, PSU and RAM are all re-usable. So, you are in pretty-good shape! Your PSU is already Bronze & Haswell-certified. A very good choice.

Funny story. A few days ago I ordered the MSI Z87-G45 mobo. I wish I hadn't. If my research is any indication... It has some issues. Most notably, the "killer networking" is said, (by some) to be faulty. They say it actually increases ping and latency. You can work around it with a network card, but you need a specific one. You MUST get a PCIe 1x network card. Why? Well... Even though the board has 3 PCIe x16 slots... If you have 2 slots full they drop to x8, and with all three it's x8/x4/x4. What does that mean? You won't want to be adding any PCIe x16 devices beyond the 1st. (Which of course, will be your video card.) So, if you have ANY thought of multiple vid-cards... You should consider another mobo.

The i7-4770K has amazing performance for it's price. If you can wait, the i7-4820K will be out around November. It will be cheaper and have slightly better performance overall. (I couldn't wait, I ordered an i7-4770K!)

Overall, I think the setup you've described will be just fine for running FFXIV.

 

[geofelt]

Windows will always try to keep free ram available. It is hard to figure out how much ram is really needed. Experience shows that 8gb is about the sweet spot.
To help clarify your options, run these two tests:

a) Run your games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 50%.
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.


Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
set to 50% and see how you do.


If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system, and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.

 

[megamanx00]

geofelt makes some good points. Speaking from personal experience though the easiest way to know you need more RAM is if you see your HD activity light come one when the FPS starts slowing down 😀.

 

[punitenshu]

Windows will always try to keep free ram available. It is hard to figure out how much ram is really needed. Experience shows that 8gb is about the sweet spot.
To help clarify your options, run these two tests:

a) Run your games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 50%.
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.


Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
set to 50% and see how you do.


If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system, and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.

I'm testing it now. I'll post again once I finish.

 

[Wisecracker]

I think it might be a re-coded junk game that's still junk, and you are dealing with game servers at full capacity.

No matter how great the game is ... until they straighten out the load on the game servers you are p'ing in the wind.

What are some other games you play? A 1GB HD5850 is likely in the range of a current HD7770. What OS are you using? You seem to be avoiding the 64-bit question ...

 

[punitenshu]

I think it might be a re-coded junk game that's still junk, and you are dealing with game servers at full capacity.

No matter how great the game is ... until they straighten out the load on the game servers you are p'ing in the wind.

What are some other games you play? A 1GB HD5850 is likely in the range of a current HD7770. What OS are you using? You seem to be avoiding the 64-bit question ...

Nah, I'm just half-asleep and didn't realize anyone asked about the OS. Win7 64bit.

I'm inclined to believe that it's not server-side as I can sit and watch the game run just fine on my wife's laptop 4 feet away from me.

I have the exact same issue when playing Ragnarok Online 2 (FPS bottoming out periodically if it isn't clear). When it gets bad, the game will basically slow down to 2-5 FPS for 2 of every 10 seconds and end up completely unplayable. This slowdown occurs even with graphical settings at minimum.

It's been awhile since I've played offline games, but Skyrim and Resident Evil 6 never got that bad. Although, when I loaded up RE6 a few days ago to check, it did the same thing, albeit much less severely.

 

[punitenshu]

Windows will always try to keep free ram available. It is hard to figure out how much ram is really needed. Experience shows that 8gb is about the sweet spot.
To help clarify your options, run these two tests:

a) Run your games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 50%.
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.


Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
set to 50% and see how you do.


If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system, and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.

Okay, so the game basically has four graphics presets, and here are the basic results.

With the CPU at 100% the FPS drops from 60 to 28 as I progress from the least demanding tier to the most. At the two highest tiers the GPU is at 99% according to AMD System Monitor, at the lower two tiers it drops to about 50%.

With the CPU at 50% the FPS drops from 20 to 15 as I make the same progression. The GPU usage never passes 50% even at the highest settings.

(Maybe) one notable thing is that when the GPU is pretty much maxed, the usage per core in the processor doesn't exceed 70%, while at settings where the GPU isn't used as much there are usually two cores hanging around 95%.

But the problem isn't lack of FPS so much as something causing everything to drastically slow down fairly frequently.

 

[geofelt]

It is hard to tell what is really going on from the task manager.
A game might be single threaded and cpu bound, but the task manager might show only 25% cpu. That might be because the single thread is being dispatched on different threads, each showing 25% utilization.
Or... a game could be well coded for multiple threads and a 25% utilization would tell you that the bottleneck is elsewhere.

The individual cores/threads on a X6 are not all that efficient.
Since most games can use only 2-3 threads, gaming performance usually puts a premium on faster threads vs. more threads.