Old machines do just fine

[offgreen]

My dad was getting rid off his old computer, and though I never checked the hardware stats until really it was a slot Celeron, AT Board with a Radeon 7000 graphics card, computer. Even then I downloaded Microsoft AntiSpyware programs, and just picked up over 2000 spyware locations. No problem. Did the same of my old P3 400 MHz laptop, a similar number.

That laptop did work very nice for surfing the web though, and that was about it, and after I cleaned it up.

 

[choirbass]

that could be true i guess... but this is what i was referring to on:

http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html


"Speed is always backwards compatible,
for example, a 4x device must be able to run at 2x and 1x.


The signalling voltage is the only incompatible part.


An 8x device must be 0.8v,
a 4x device can be 1.5v or 0.8v,
a 2x or 1x device can be 3.3v or 1.5v.


The connectors are keyed so that you can only use compatible equipment.
AGP 1.0 and 2.0 devices using a 1.5v key, signal at 1.5v, while AGP 3.0 devices using the 1.5v key and signal at 0.8v.
AGP 3.0 devices must be tolerant of 1.5v signalling though, they won't necessarily work, but will not be destroyed if inserted into an AGP 1.0/2.0 slot."


so physically the card will fit, but voltagewise, its not 100% guaranteed to work by any means

 

[Crashman]

Incomplete. Here's mine:

http://www.sysopt.com/features/graphics/article.php/3532496

Also incomplete, but less misleading.

All AGP8x cards are 8x/4x or 8x/4x/2x. There are absolutely no AGP8x cards on the market that are not also 4x. So it doesn't matter if an "AGP8x" card can't function on a 1.5v signal, because there is no such thing as an AGP8x card.

Let me repeate that! For people who believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause jumping down their chimney, there are AGP8x cards. For the rest of the world, there are only 8x/4x and 8x/4x/2x cards.

Now, considering the fact that most of us live in the real world, and those who live in the real world deal build our computers with real parts, it becomes strikingly obvious that all 8x cards work in all 4x boards, because all 8x cards are either 8x/4x or 8x/4x/2x.

 

[choirbass]

*sigh*... okay... thats alittle off topic,with santa and everything... sure, theres AGP 8x/4x/2x cards... im not saying a card that 'supports' AGP 8x will not also 'support' 4x/2x, just pointing out that the different voltages of an AGP v3.0 slot, are different than v2.0, and v1.0 (and the cards that are designed for them)... and you cant argue the voltages arent different... cuz they are... ...and this is slightly off topic too, but still somewhat relevant... an AGP Express slot, will actually end up frying some AGP cards that arent supported on the specific motherboard, because the voltages really are too high, because its not an actual AGP slot... but rather the combined current of 2 PCI slots, acting as a 'mock' AGP slot... ...but yeah, not quite that much danger with a normal AGP slot though, or really any danger at all... but still in the same ballpark... different AGP versions output different voltage amounts... and key word... 'potentially' resulting in what i had said before... of the card just not working, but not risking being broken

 

[Crashman]

I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, just "school you", hehe. We're dealing with real parts here, all AGP8x cards on the market are, at a minimum, 4x compatible as well. All AGP8x motherboards are also, at a minimum, 4x compatible as well.

AGP Express doesn't count, because it uses 3.3v signals, so is limitted to 2x compatible cards. I covered that in another review. Cards that "should" work in an AGP Express slot include 2x, 4x/2x, and 8x/4x/2x cards, ie, any card that supports 3.3v signals, even as a backwards compatibility mode.

Of course AGP Express doesn't have to support all 3.3v-capable cards, because it's not a standard. It's only supported by the manufacturer, therefor it's up to them to try and make various cards work on it.

The problem here is that "potentially" scares a lot of people with a theory that's never true in reality. The reason it's never true in reality is because video card manufacturers are careful to include as large a buyer group as possible. Hence, none will produce an 8x card when it only cost a few cents to make the same card 8x/4x, gaining them at least 5% sales volume and eliminating at least 5% of returns (I'm being conservative here so that when you prove my sales/return numbers are wrong, the new numbers make the rest of my argument stronger).

 

[choirbass]

its okay... i dont really like arguing at all to begin with, usually try and avoid it lol... but yeah, i was just pointing out i guess the 'potential negative affect'... even if i guess it doesnt affect most cards 😛... but yeah, that makes sense with AGP Express, i just remember having read how people would purchase ECS K8T890-A (and similar) boards, and use their expensive AGP card with it.... and end up having it fried, cuz they didnt know it wasnt compatible... but yeah, no hard feelings

 

[sepuko]

i'm just curious, how much does a second hand [PIII 1,13GHz 256RAM 20HDD apropriate mobo with integr. video,case+psu,cd player, kbd, mouse and some 17" crt monitor manufactured the 2000] or equivalent to that machine cost in the US?

 

[Crashman]

Around $100-$125 from companies that specialize in bulk aquisitions, and around $200-$250 in small shops.

 

[sepuko]

100-125!? damn cheap...

 

[Crashman]

Excuse me, that's bare machine prices. Used keyboards go for around $2-5, same for mice, used 17" CRT's go for around $20 from large companies and are re-sold for around $40-50 at small shops.

So you're looking at around $150 if you know the right people, and around $300 from a small shop, for the complete system.