Old PC Build starting to fail need upgrade/new build advice

[kuguar_19]

Hi everyone!
As the title explains I'm looking for some advice on the route I should go... upgrade or build new.

Approximate Purchase Date: by Black Friday unless deals are available now

Budget Range: Upgrade $500 After Rebates / After Shipping; New Build ~$2500 After rebates/shipping (includes monitor and OS)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, surfing the internet, watching movies
Games vary: Skyrim, FO4, Batman games(Knight, etc.), Middle Earth: Shadows, Just Cause 3, Sniper Elite 3, Civ VI, Mad Max, Borderlands, XCom 2

Are you buying a monitor: Yes... Acer Predator Z35P, current monitor Asus VW246H is going to another PC with monitor that's failing


Parts to Upgrade:
Current rig build:
CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition Heka Triple-Core 3.0 GHz Socket AM3 95W
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U9B SE2 92mm SSO CPU Cooler
Mobo: ASRock 870 EXTREME3 (SATA port and MEM channels maybe failing)
Mem: Corsair Vengeance 16 GB (4 x 4 GB) DDR3 1600 MHz
Storage: System OS (Win10): G.SKILL Phoenix Pro Series 2.5" 120GB
Data: 1 TB WD Blue SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB (almost full!)
Data: Seagate 4TB Gaming SSHD
Vid Card: Sapphire 11244-01-20G Radeon NITRO R9 390 8GB
Case: currently in LIAN LI Black Aluminum PC-C33B but moving into a NZXT Phantom I got for free
PSupply: SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold or Seasonic SS-760XP2 (have boxes for both but don't remember which is where)

Do you need to buy OS: Yes if new build

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: PCpartpicker, Amazon, NewEgg

Location: USA

Parts Preferences: no preference

Overclocking: Yes / Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: soon to be 21:9 or 3440x1440

Additional Comments: Would like to go to the AIO Corsair cooling solution (H100i V2) since new case will take it. Also would like to have some headroom with expected vid card upgrade down the line. Not stuck on AMD, and whatever gives me awesome performance in games will be a win for me.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Current Mobo is starting to show it's age and I will get occasional out of Mem errors or 4TB drive will not show in OS. MEMtest doesn't find errors and multiple dimms still get errors. Losing 4TB is annoying and depends on the SATA slot whether it's found and if I get to play any games that given day or not. I would love to have the full 4TB of storage too!

 

[kuguar_19]

Ok things are getting a bit more advanced here. My main data drive (1TB) seems to have failed or at least can't be seen by Windows. Biggest problem is that I hadn't been able to back it up to the 4TB drive. Now I need to build a new PC and try to recover data off of the 1TB. I think I know how I will build but not sure about how to recover if the drive can't be seen/read.

 

[coozie7]

The i7 will do better than the R7 1700 in lightly threaded workloads-and this means many older games which won't run at 4K-if you do regularly use this type of software either for entertainment or for hobby purposes then I'd go for the i7.

The R7 1700 excels in heavily threaded and multicore software, if you use this type of software regularly and only intend to play more modern, heavily threaded games it's the better choice.

If you will have a mixed usage really only you can make the decision as to which CPU will fit your needs best, will you want to prioritise multithread/core performance ( R7 1700 ) or single/dual thread/core performance ( i7 7700K )? Your call.

Both the SSDs you list are SATA type, not PCI-E NVMe, so you'll lose a fair bit of speed with them.

I've cost saved with a 75Hz Freesync monitor here:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($322.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus - STRIX Z270-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($187.33 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($175.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($420.98 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB STRIX GAMING Video Card ($779.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer - XR342CK 34.0" 3440x1440 75Hz Monitor ($699.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2697.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-04 13:26 EDT-0400

And the AMD build with then same changes:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($299.79 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard ($133.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Flare X 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($125.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($420.98 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AMP Extreme Video Card ($759.79 @ SuperBiiz)
Monitor: Acer - XR342CK 34.0" 3440x1440 75Hz Monitor ($699.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2550.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-04 13:32 EDT-0400

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

Here is link to the Ryzen 1700 review. Scroll down to games benchmark section and you will see in most of the modern games 7700K beats all the Ryzen CPU even they are heavily overclocked at 3.9GHz and the 7700K running at stock speed.
Then think how it will look if the 7700K is overclocked to between 4,8 to 5GHz.
So to say Intel is only faster in old games are simply a false statement.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700-cpu-review,5009.html

 

[coozie7]

@ Kuguar_19: Try the obvious first:
Reseat the power and data leads and check the data leads aren't kinked or tightly bent, this is known to cause issues.
Disconnect the 4Tb drive and try the 1Tb drive in another motherboard connector.

If no joy, start another thread in the storage or Components Forums you'll tap into a more specialised knowledge base.

@ Kaspar Jorgensen: Yes, the i7 does beat the R7 1700 at 1080 rez, I've said that all along, and if Kuguar_19 was playing at 1080 I'd have recommended a i7 build in a heartbeat, but he's not, he's playing at 4K rez where the two are virtually equal:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_5_1600/12.html

 

[kuguar_19]

Coozie, thanks for the reply. I'll have to go back and look at those M.2 drives but the WD was listed on Asus's QVL for M.2 for that board and it was cheaper.

Honestly, I haven't had many games now or in the past that really used all of AMD multi cores. Also I still play quite a few older titles which has me leaning towards Intel.

Right now my most pressing issues are the data drive I need to recover and getting the parts I want at lower prices.

 

[coozie7]

Well, from your last post, Kuguar_19 it looks like you'll be better served with an Intel build, and the i7 7700K is a massively powerful CPU...Enjoy.

Can't offer much more help with the HDDs...Sorry, not really my field.

The big Predator in both your builds is a bit much for my Capricorn tightwad blood, it's a top flight part right enough but you may want to consider the Acre I linked in my last posted builds-either will knock your eyes out but the Acer will leave you a little money left over for the medical bills.

 

[kuguar_19]

Thanks Coozie! I may heed your advice about the medical bills, but the wife knows me and my Sinatra "My way" streak.

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

@ Kuguar_19: Try the obvious first:
Reseat the power and data leads and check the data leads aren't kinked or tightly bent, this is known to cause issues.
Disconnect the 4Tb drive and try the 1Tb drive in another motherboard connector.

If no joy, start another thread in the storage or Components Forums you'll tap into a more specialised knowledge base.

@ Kaspar Jorgensen: Yes, the i7 does beat the R7 1700 at 1080 rez, I've said that all along, and if Kuguar_19 was playing at 1080 I'd have recommended a i7 build in a heartbeat, but he's not, he's playing at 4K rez where the two are virtually equal:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_5_1600/12.html

I know you said that, and i agree. But you also seems to forget his future upgrade path. Unless you go total overkill with a GTX 1080 TI for 1080p 60Hz gaming and buy a GPU that suits your needs in terms of resolution and settings at todays games, you most likely need a GPU upgrade in 3 years from now. In 3 years from now, and with the best GPU you can get at that time to replace the GTX 1080 TI, it's very likely that the GPU will no longer be a bottleneck at 4K or at least not as much as of today. And with 1440p there will be no GPU bottlenecks anymore. At the same time you will not have to upgrade your CPU. Past has shown us that CPU for gaming can last much longer, i mean people are still using a 2.gen Sandy Bridge I7 to play modern games without much trouble. I think it is safe to say that a high end CPU will last you at least 1 GPU swap and also possible 2.
So in the end, in 3 years from now and with a GPU upgrade, you will again see a large performance gap between those 2 CPU.

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

Also i just stumbled across this for the I7-8700K Coffee Lake. Looks like it will be eating AMD CPUs for breakfirst
http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-cpu-benchmarks-leak-faster-than-8-core-ryzen/

 

[coozie7]

Interesting, we'll see what it does when the official reviews are in.
As a side note, the article says the chip will be compatible with current motherboards, AFAIK Coffee Lake will only work with 3XX motherboards, again, I'll wait until official information is available before making further comments.
In the meantime, it looks like Kuguar_19 has a solution: i7 7700K+Z270MB+GTX1080Ti on a 4K display.
How I envy him.

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

The article says that it has been RUMORED that mobo manufactures will make them work with older chipsets with a BIOS Update. Obviously this is only rumors so only time will tell. I can't wait to see official reviews of those CPUs. Anyway, as I already have I7-7700K i'm not in for an upgrade this time.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

In your benchmarks above, I love how they cherry pick the benchmark where the 8700k does better than Ryzen 7, but in the last multicore benchmark, they drop to the Ryzen 5 1600x and won't show the Ryzen 7 in the cpu z benchmark.

Also, in the top benchmarks, notice that they set up their highest 8700k benchmark against the lowest Ryzen 7. They didn't bother to use the fastest Ryzen 7 1800x.

On the wprime2 bench at the top, yes the 8700k wins (slide 1 at the top).

Notice the cinebench bench (2nd slide), yes the Intel wins on single thread, but the slowest Ryzen 7 wins on multicore performance)

Slide 3 Fritz chess Intel win, I'll admit that.

Slide 4 older cinebench benchmark, Intel wins single thread. However, multithreaded, yes Intel wins, but on the other hand, they benchmarked against the slowest Ryzen 7, 1700, not the Ryzen 7 1800x.

Keep in mind, the 1700 is stock at 3.0 GHz and only boost to 3.7ghz.

The 1800x starts at 3.6ghz. It will boost to 4.0ghz.

So I'm thinking the older version of cinebench would show the AMD with a multicore win had they tested fairly against the 1800x. Also in the cpu z benchmark at the bottom, had they included the 1800x, I think the multicore performance would have favored amd.

Those benchmarks are interesting, but they look cherry picked to me. It seems like they tested against slower amd CPUs SSO they they could show wins on multicore performance, whereas if they had tested against the upper end CPUs, those numbers would have looked different.

I'm not impressed.

Also here's something else, doesn't sound like ryzen is a one off.

https://www.google.com/amp/wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-zen-3-7nm-cpu-architecture-details/amp/

So it looks like we can expect 2 or 3 more releases of ryzen variants at least, and they are claiming am4 will be supported until 2020. I read somewhere they are saying the next release will be 5-15% increase in ipc, which if they can pull off say 10%, and increase clock speeds, coffee lake does not look as good, especially with how those benchmarks look cherry picked already.

Only an opinion

 

[Kasper Jorgensen]

Coffee Lake look as good as next gen Ryzen does, saying they will be 5-15% faster is no different than what Intel is saying before every new generation.
Also keep in mind that the Ryzen 1800x are $80 more.
But I must say that I'll be amazed if AMD is able to skip 10nm and make the jump to 7nm in 2018 already, that would be exciting.

Again, no one knows until official benchmarks are done after they got released and basically those benchmarks means little to me as I care more to see some real world gaming benchmarks.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Agreed. Competition is good for all of us. Other things I saw previously said to expect another Ryzen release on 14nm in early 2018, and then the jump to zen 2 by the end of next year. Those may have been older maps though.

I'm just normal when they compared though, they compared against the 1700. If 1800x is more expensive, maybe vs the 3.4ghz 1700x would have been more fair. Just thought it was interesting hope they picked the lowest Ryzen 7 to go against the top next generation i7.