Question Options for setting up a WiFi network ?

[Crag_Hack]

Hi I want to set up a wifi network on the ground floor of a condominium building I live in. 3 APs will be indoors, 1 outdoors, and possibly another indoor AP I'm not sure about. So 4-5 total APs. Ideally I would like a wired backhaul to all APs since the walls are concrete and a wireless backhaul is only possible for 2 of the APs (if wireless it would come from another AP getting a wired backhaul). What do you guys recommend for this? Should I mix and match wired AP conventional routers of the same make and model except for the outdoor AP or do I stand to benefit from some sort of wifi system like Ubiquiti? What are my options? The most important thing is roaming capability, speed is not that important and coverage is only important for the outdoor AP; the indoor ones don't have much area to cover. Thanks!

 

[kanewolf]

Hi I want to set up a wifi network in the ground floor of a condominium building I live in. 3 APs will be indoors, 1 outdoors, and possibly another indoor AP I'm not sure about. So 4-5 total APs. Ideally I would like a wired backhaul to all APs since the walls are concrete and a wireless backhaul is only possible for 2 of the APs (if wireless it would come from another AP getting a wired backhaul). What do you guys recommend for this? Should I mix and match wired AP conventional routers of the same make and model except for the outdoor AP or do I stand to benefit from some sort of wifi system like Ubiquiti? What are my options? The most important thing is roaming capability, speed is not that important and coverage is only important for the outdoor AP; the indoor ones don't have much area to cover. Thanks!

I would recommend Ubiquiti UniFI hardware. They have outdoor rated hardware (U6 Mesh) -- Ignore the name, it is a standard AP. All of your APs can be managed from a single dashboard. Mix and match hardware will not be so easily managed.
Roaming is controlled by the client hardware. What you can do is turn DOWN the transmit power of the APs to minimize overlap. There are roaming enhancements that you can enable in the UniFI environment, but it is up to the client device, not the WIFI APs.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@kanewolf Thanks, does this guy have the capability of acting as an AP only with no routing? I would go with the U6-IW but looks like you have to cut a giant hole in the wall. Also can these guys function off of Cat5? The building was wired a long time ago and some of the wiring is only Cat5 me thinks.

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf Thanks, does this guy have the capability of acting as an AP only with no routing? I would go with the U6-IW but looks like you have to cut a giant hole in the wall. Also can these guys function off of Cat5? The building was wired a long time ago and some of the wiring is only Cat5 me thinks.

No, the dream router is an all-in-one device with multiple functions. It is not an AP only. The In-Wall requires a standard single wide electrical box.
The U6-Mesh is similar in shape and size to the dream router if you need a stand alone AP to sit on a table.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@kanewolf Awesome I didn't realize the U6-Mesh was for both indoor and outdoor. Will it work with Cat5? Also can you point me to a place where I can read about controller options? Our requirements are modest it looks like a UniFi Express, Cloud Key G2 Plus, or Gateway Lite might do the job. Thanks again.

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf Awesome I didn't realize the U6-Mesh was for both indoor and outdoor. Will it work with Cat5? Also can you point me to a place where I can read about controller options? Our requirements are modest it looks like a UniFi Express, Cloud Key G2 Plus, or Gateway Lite might do the job. Thanks again.

Difficult to predict cabling sight unseen. All you can do is try it. It might only link at 100Mbit.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@kanewolf Totally not a problem at 100 Mbps.

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf Totally not a problem at 100 Mbps.

That would generally be the worst case.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@kanewolf Out of curiosity, do 802.11k and v depend on inter-AP communication? If not how do they do their magic?

Also do mesh network wifi systems like Google Nest / Asus Zen Wifi do overlap tuning automatically?

Thanks for the help!

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf Out of curiosity, do 802.11k and v depend on inter-AP communication? If not how do they do their magic?

Also do mesh network wifi systems like Google Nest / Asus Zen Wifi do overlap tuning automatically?

Thanks for the help!

I don't know how the mesh systems work. I have never used one. The 802.11k and v do not use AP to AP interaction, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[bill001g]

Most end device do not support 802.11k/v. It seem rather flaky. Mostly you see it talked about on apple devices. Mostly you would use this when you are using enterprise mode wifi authentication. The extra time it take to do authenticate to the radius server every time you move between AP take much more time that simple shared secrets.

Wifi was never really designed for roaming unlike say a cell network. The end devices are in full control and they are not so smart sometimes.

In general most people do not actually need so called "seemless" roaming. By the time they walk to the new room the device figures it out and switches. Worst case you stop the wifi and start it and will disconnect from the weak signal and connect to the closer stronger signal. Your best options is to try to reduce the overlap between the AP but keep the radio power strong enough so your devices near the edge do not disconnect. Lots of trial and error.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@bill001g @kanewolf excellent I think that wraps it up thanks.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@bill001g Do you know if mesh networks do overlap tuning at all? I've never heard it mentioned in any mesh network setup to tweak the power and do overlap tuning.

Also is there anything a purposely built mesh network has that using multiple hard-wired access points doesn't?

 

[bill001g]

Mesh is purely marketing it really is just another name for repeater in most cases.

You are running AP anyway and not repeaters. Large corporations do not use silly mesh/repeater systems they run AP like you do.

Mesh to a point does have automatic configuration but it is mostly just setting the SSID names and passwords the same. This is mostly for lazy people, how hard is it really to configure 3 or maybe 4 devices once and then again if you change the passwords.

Ubiquiti has a configuration program that does similar function if you would really want it. It is much more important in a business where you might have 20 or 30 AP to monitor and configure.

Configuring the overlap and power setting is not something the network can do on its own. It might be able to reduce the overlap but it might then drop the coverage too much in the remote location. It has no way to know how far away the farthest device is going to connect. It also can't physically move the AP farther apart rather than reducing the power.

The layout of a series of wifi AP is skill that people make their living off of in businesses. Going to be a while before we get a AI robot that can walk around and measure signal levels in various rooms and then plan the layout.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@bill001g I'm guessing PCWorld PCMag etc promote mesh network systems to cater to their target audience although I think anybody with a small amount of networking know-how could set up a wired AP system just as easily. I do a lot of reading and never found anybody touting the benefits of wired AP systems... maybe I was just reading the wrong stuff.

 

[bill001g]

It depends on what you call "mesh". People that use ethernet cable and know the difference between a wireless repeater and a AP tend to have much more knowledge than the general public. I think the average consumer of wifi equipment is lucky if they can get the device out of the box and turn the power on. These are the people you have to warn not to put plastic bags over their head.

Commercial installs always use AP. Now big systems like cisco or HP will also try to force you to buy their massively expensive controller machine for their AP. Now these systems are really fancy they let you roam say between floors of a building or even between between buildings. They can handle stuff like IP network changes or even dynamically activate more AP based on increased load...like a bunch of employees in a conference rooms.

These system point and laugh at so called mesh system management...or even ubiquiti system. Then again they cost more than your average car does so only a company that actually needs these features would buy them.

The only reason I even know about them is I used to have certifications in cisco wireless equipment.

In the end simple is always better. You manually configure your stuff and there is no issue with some automated AI script changing stuff when you are not looking.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@kanewolf @bill001g Are you guys familiar with Ubiquiti switches at all? I have some questions about the network I've been working on. Thanks! I could start a new thread if necessary.

 

[bill001g]

You tend to get more responses from a new thread but it also depends on how many people actually use ubiquiti stuff. Switches in general are kinda boring devices. All companies devices are pretty much the same...unless you look at very fancy layer 3 stuff.
ubiquiti does sell some switches that support their proprietary form of POE but I have not look at this stuff in detail for quite some time.

 

[kanewolf]

@kanewolf @bill001g Are you guys familiar with Ubiquiti switches at all? I have some questions about the network I've been working on. Thanks! I could start a new thread if necessary.

It is always better setup a new thread for a different topic. You never know who will see your new topic and answer vs this existing topic of a different flavor.
I do have a full ubiquiti network at home, so a topic with "ubiquiti switch" in the title would probably be best.