overclock ryzen 5 2600 with stock cooler

[blade_storm]

hello guys i will overclock ryzen 5 2600 on asrock b450m pro4 until i get an aftermarket cooler. So, i don t want something crazy. ram will be 3000mhz and i want to try between 3.8ghz and 3.9ghz, what do you think with volt? should i push it up to 1.3 or below that?PSU isn t a problem. thanks you a lot!

 

[NightHawkRMX]

You can try. Witha stock cooler no way, but with a dark rock pro 4 cooler and high-end board, you may get that. A lot is luck.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

For now, give it a mild overclock and decide if getting a $185 mobo such as: Asus - ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard and $75 cooler is worth 5% more performance and 2-300mhz more. At that point, you should just get a 2700x with much more performance for the same money if you really need more performance. Keep your current setup, give it a mild overclock, and keep your money.

 

[DavidM012]

the OP has that dilemma. I haven't moved to ryzen yet and I'm waiting for zen 2.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I wouldnt upgrade so soon unless u buy low end place holder cpu.

 

[TJ Hooker]

The Fatality is the better board. 2x m.2 slots vrs 1, 6+3 phase vrs 3+3 etc.

The B450 Fatality has the same VRMs as the Pro4. Both are 3 'fat' phases for the CPU. By fat phase I mean each phase has two sets of components (FETs, chokes, etc.). Even the heatsink looks to be pretty much the same.

OP, just to confirm, do you already have the Pro4 or not?

Edit: To talk a bit more about the 'fat' phases, having 3 fat phases means you have the current/power capability of a 6 phase, but not the reduced ripple or better transient response that normally comes with higher phase counts.

 

[TJ Hooker]

At 3.8-3.9GHz there really aren't any gains. Power phases are used Alot for stability purposes, the VRM's convert 12v DC to @0.2-1.5v DC, but that 12v is subject to its own noise, it's never pure. Power phases help clean the resultant ups and downs even further, supposedly, but can introduce dips between phases, so more is not often better for that purpose.
More phases is only a benefit under extreme OC, where high current and voltages are split between more VRM's, lowering overall heat output.

Having more phases reduces ripple, not increases it. Having more phases is never a bad thing, it's just that it usually costs more and may not be needed in some cases.

Edit: I don't believe higher phase counts have much to do with filtering out 12V supply noise either.

 

[DavidM012]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/66puim/asrock_63_phase_am4_vrm_from_the_ab350m_pro_4/

My searches threw up a 3+3 phase but the other review says it's a 9 phase. They might well be the exact same phases on the two boards only not described as such in different reviews.

The natural question why did they add more power phases on the x470 boards if there's nothing to it?

There are two ranges 3.4-3.8 range there is another 3.8-4.2 range.

Since 8 phase is somewhere in the middle of that say 4.0 then maybe counting the power phases is a way to estimate how far the overclock will go, if you also consider that chip binning will be a factor too it is all roughly estimated and not guaranteed.

 

[blade_storm]

The Fatality is the better board. 2x m.2 slots vrs 1, 6+3 phase vrs 3+3 etc.

The B450 Fatality has the same VRMs as the Pro4. Both are 3 'fat' phases for the CPU. By fat phase I mean each phase has two sets of components (FETs, chokes, etc.). Even the heatsink looks to be pretty much the same.

OP, just to confirm, do you already have the Pro4 or not?

Edit: To talk a bit more about the 'fat' phases, having 3 fat phases means you have the current/power capability of a 6 phase, but not the reduced ripple or better transient response that normally comes with higher phase counts.

i don t have any of these but i am planning to buy on of these two. i have read that the full atx (falality) have some problems when you install it in case, and i build for the frist time, do you think i will have any issue?

 

[DavidM012]

Yes it sounds like you will have any issue.

 

[TJ Hooker]

i don t have any of these but i am planning to buy on of these two. i have read that the full atx (falality) have some problems when you install it in case, and i build for the frist time, do you think i will have any issue?

What case do you have? If it supports full ATX mobos I don't see why you'd have an issue.

If you're just choosing between the B450 Fatality and the Pro4, get whatever has the slots/connectors you want. They won't really overclock any differently just based on the VRMs (I would imagine the BIOS would be pretty similar too). If the Fatality doesn't have any extra features you need I don't see the point in paying extra for it.

 

[DavidM012]

he was persuaded an atx board with the same vrms as the mATX version would be superior. That could be an omen. From the list above to allow a certain margin at least select an 8 phase board.

He wants a rig with no worries. So do I. That is why I am going for the x470, when it's time to upgrade, with 16 power phases. Big cooler like the noctua nh-d15, 16 power phases, no worry.

Plus a few modern ports like m.2 and usb 3.1. Besides which the advisory has been to wait for the release of Zen 2, at this juncture.

 

[cryoburner]

Why bother overclocking to 3.8 or 3.9 GHz? Even at stock clocks, the 2600 should boost up to around 3.7 to 3.8 GHz under a typical gaming workload, even on the stock cooler. And unless you're pairing the CPU with a relatively high-end graphics card at a resolution where the CPU is what's holding back performance, it probably won't make a perceptible difference. What are the specs of this system going to be, graphics card and monitor included?

Overclocking to the 4+ GHz range might make some sense if you want to save some money compared to the 2600X, but keep in mind that the 2600X can boost into that range at stock clocks, making overclocking largely unnecessary on that version of the processor, and it comes with a somewhat better stock cooler.

The stock Wraith cooler that amd ships with the Ryzen cpus is quite often better than many budget aftermarket coolers. It's equitable to a CM hyper212 evo. It'll handle a 3.8-3.9GHz OC without issue.

While it should be possible to hit those kinds of clocks on the 2600's stock cooler, you may need the fan turned up for a stable all-core overclock, and even a relatively cheap tower cooler should be quieter. Also, there are a couple versions of that Wraith Cooler. The 2600X comes with the taller Wraith Spire that has a vapor chamber, while the 2600 comes with the shorter Wraith Stealth that does not. Both are relatively good as far as stock coolers go, but even the better version falls a bit short of a 120mm aftermarket tower cooler.

 

[blade_storm]

Why bother overclocking to 3.8 or 3.9 GHz? Even at stock clocks, the 2600 should boost up to around 3.7 to 3.8 GHz under a typical gaming workload, even on the stock cooler. And unless you're pairing the CPU with a relatively high-end graphics card at a resolution where the CPU is what's holding back performance, it probably won't make a perceptible difference. What are the specs of this system going to be, graphics card and monitor included?

Overclocking to the 4+ GHz range might make some sense if you want to save some money compared to the 2600X, but keep in mind that the 2600X can boost into that range at stock clocks, making overclocking largely unnecessary on that version of the processor, and it comes with a somewhat better stock cooler.
the 2600x hasn t stock cooler, that s what i know

The stock Wraith cooler that amd ships with the Ryzen cpus is quite often better than many budget aftermarket coolers. It's equitable to a CM hyper212 evo. It'll handle a 3.8-3.9GHz OC without issue.

While it should be possible to hit those kinds of clocks on the 2600's stock cooler, you may need the fan turned up for a stable all-core overclock, and even a relatively cheap tower cooler should be quieter. Also, there are a couple versions of that Wraith Cooler. The 2600X comes with the taller Wraith Spire that has a vapor chamber, while the 2600 comes with the shorter Wraith Stealth that does not. Both are relatively good as far as stock coolers go, but even the better version falls a bit short of a 120mm aftermarket tower cooler.

does 2600x has a stock cooler?

 

[blade_storm]

i don t have any of these but i am planning to buy on of these two. i have read that the full atx (falality) have some problems when you install it in case, and i build for the frist time, do you think i will have any issue?

What case do you have? If it supports full ATX mobos I don't see why you'd have an issue.

If you're just choosing between the B450 Fatality and the Pro4, get whatever has the slots/connectors you want. They won't really overclock any differently just based on the VRMs (I would imagine the BIOS would be pretty similar too). If the Fatality doesn't have any extra features you need I don't see the point in paying extra for it.

do they have difference in connectors-headers?

 

[TJ Hooker]

The Fatality has a couple extra PCIe slots and SATA connectors. Which is typical of a full size ATX mobo compared to a microATX.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?CompareItemList=22%7C13-157-843%5E13-157-843%2C13-157-840%5E13-157-840

Yes, the 2600X does have a stock cooler, which is better than the one that comes with the 2600. However, for the price difference between the two CPUs you could easily buy an aftermarket cooler that outperforms either stock cooler.

 

[DavidM012]

The full atx version has some additional pci-e slots and this review says it has an additional m.2 slot

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8759/asrock-fatal1ty-b450-gaming-k4-amd-motherboard-review/index.html

Though I can't see the additional slot so maybe they stack one on top of the other.

The pro 4 (micro atx) and k4 gaming (full atx) it has been said look as though they have the same 3+3 power phases.

They also have usb 3.1 ports.

The gigabyte Auros has 8+3 power phases and usb 3.1 ports so you should easily be able to do 3.8ghz on it with the stock cooler and maybe you'll get to 4ghz with an aftermarket cooler but there's no way to guess if you'd get the full overclock on it.

Then it was said that there's virtually no point in a 3.8ghz overclock because it's the same as the boost speed, so, you are still heading into uncharted waters, from your point of view, because considering the x470 boards have got 16 power phases to maybe help get through to the 3.8-4.2 range, and that if you also get an aftermarket cooler.

If you get a board with more power phases and an aftermarket cooler there is likely less chance that the overclock will fail.

I couldn't tell you if the k4 gaming or pro 4 boards would fail if you tried to push the voltage too high because I haven't bought any or tried to overclock with them but based upon the general information available maybe with only the 3+3 power phases you are immediately pushing the limit if you increase the voltage and if you started to think you could push it some more then maybe you'd find the board fails or at least it shuts down if it has any safety features (wouldn't count on that) but you are saying you don't want hassle so

with the 8+3 phase auros board you have a bit more margin for error maybe a bit more stability because you are at the stage of not knowing where the temps. and voltages will lie it's better to have a bit more of a margin.

The gigabyte auros also has a mATX and full atx version with more pci-e ports and and 2 m.2 ports.

And there are also MSI and ASUS boards to consider. The asus range has had some bios problems according to various threads and the msi tomahawk has been favorably reviewed.

So I'm just saying you seem to have picked the least of them in the pro 4 or k4. and then you're worried about the overclock. So it sounds like there is more chance of problems with your current selection.

 

[TJ Hooker]

When it comes to CPU overclocking the important phases are the ones that power the CPU cores, so that's what I'll focus on here.

There are no X470 boards with 16 phases. The best is a 6 phase Vcore with doublers to get to 12 phase total.

There are also no 8 phase Aorus motherboards. They are only 4 'fat' phases (configured similarly to the fat phases I described for the ASRock boards).

But you don't need 8+ 'real' phases to overclock a 2600 anyway. There are people hitting 4.2 GHz on 8 core Ryzens with an ASRock Pro4 with its 3 phase VRM.

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/asrock_b450m_pro4_review,6.html

But all this is going into more detail than is necessary. I'd say either of those ASRock boards should be OK for getting a Ryzen 2600 to 4 GHz or higher.

Personally I think the MSI B450-A Pro looks good. Overall seems to be quite similar to the B450 Tomahawk (including VRMs), which seems to be well reviewed. But it lacks a few bells and whistles (e.g. LEDs) so it's a bit cheaper than the Tomahawk. But again, the ASRock boards should be perfectly adequate too.

Edit: If anyone is really curious about VRM configurations on AM4 motherboards, here is a good reference: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
But going into that level of detail is overkill for most people.

 

[DavidM012]

The asrock mATX b450 pro has two m2 slots and the tomahawk has one

https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_tomahawk_b350_review,7.html

they don't do a comparative review though it says it has less power draw, and you can compare other benchmarks. The asrock mATX pro 4 seems ahead on various other benchmarks like ray tracing but rise of the tomb raider is 86.6fps and 85.3fps on the tomahawk.

basically insignificant so it's a tough choice between lower power consumption and one m2 port on the tomahawk and more power consumption and an additional m2 port on the asrock.

The msi tomahawk has a similar 3 phase vrm. The full atx version also has 2 m.2 ports.

The gigabyte auros pro m has the 4 phase vrm. and it has 1 m.2 slot and a heat sink for the m.2 drive. and isn't substantially more expensive than the asrock. The full atx version has a substantially larger heat sink on the vrms and 2 m.2 slots with heat sinks.

The second m.2 slot runs slower than the first one so only 1 m.2 drive will run at full speed while the 2nd runs at half speed but still 3x faster than a standard ssd. But I have 2 ssds already and will only probably want 1 m.2 anyway. Nice to have 2 m.2's if you're often moving large chunks of data around.

The vortez review seems to show that there isn't anything in the x470 benchmarks so why the additional power phases

Oh ok it says they might run a bit cooler and have a longer life.

Whether there is much between them in practice, hard to know. The asrock is much cheaper but I'm still thinking about it more either half of it is all marketing blurb or there is something in the other boards that might mean a longer life or something in benchmarks.


https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/b450-msi-gigabyte-asus-asrock-boards-review-hardware-unboxed.18827089/

This one says the msi tomahawk vrms run cooler and the gigabyte run warmer.

The 2600x also has a higher tdp than the other cpus so I still might go for more margin with that one. one less vrm is still 25% less vrm. and zen 2 is tba. Whether it's all small odds or what, but I still might go for the gigabyte with the extra power phase or an x470. and full ATX as I already have a full ATX chassis.

Thanks for the vortez links way more info than I was finding.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3872619/gigabyte-b450-aorus-elite-asrock-b450-pro4.html

One they made earlier but doesn't really say why they thought the gigabyte is better for oc.

https://www.techspot.com/bestof/amd-b450-motherboards/

This one says the asrock is the best ultra cheap and the tomahawk is the best all rounder. If you get the 2600x get the tomahawk.

at current prices I can get the tomahawk, 2600 and dd4 2400 for about £350 or the tomahawk 2600x and ddr 4 3466 for £450. I think the extra £100 would be worth it. If I wasn't waiting for zen 2.

There might be a little saving to be had by skimping on the ram and overclocking some 2400 but £20-40 vs hassle, probably spend the extra.

 

[Karadjgne]

You wouldn't want the 2400 anyways. Ryzen, unlike Intel, make good use of higher speed ram. Typically the sweetspot for value/performance is 3200/16, but 3000/15 is just as good, if not occasionally better since some setups have issues over 2933.

Yes, the extra $100 would show better results.

 

[blade_storm]

The full atx version has some additional pci-e slots and this review says it has an additional m.2 slot

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8759/asrock-fatal1ty-b450-gaming-k4-amd-motherboard-review/index.html

Though I can't see the additional slot so maybe they stack one on top of the other.

The pro 4 (micro atx) and k4 gaming (full atx) it has been said look as though they have the same 3+3 power phases.

They also have usb 3.1 ports.

The gigabyte Auros has 8+3 power phases and usb 3.1 ports so you should easily be able to do 3.8ghz on it with the stock cooler and maybe you'll get to 4ghz with an aftermarket cooler but there's no way to guess if you'd get the full overclock on it.

Then it was said that there's virtually no point in a 3.8ghz overclock because it's the same as the boost speed, so, you are still heading into uncharted waters, from your point of view, because considering the x470 boards have got 16 power phases to maybe help get through to the 3.8-4.2 range, and that if you also get an aftermarket cooler.

If you get a board with more power phases and an aftermarket cooler there is likely less chance that the overclock will fail.

I couldn't tell you if the k4 gaming or pro 4 boards would fail if you tried to push the voltage too high because I haven't bought any or tried to overclock with them but based upon the general information available maybe with only the 3+3 power phases you are immediately pushing the limit if you increase the voltage and if you started to think you could push it some more then maybe you'd find the board fails or at least it shuts down if it has any safety features (wouldn't count on that) but you are saying you don't want hassle so

with the 8+3 phase auros board you have a bit more margin for error maybe a bit more stability because you are at the stage of not knowing where the temps. and voltages will lie it's better to have a bit more of a margin.

The gigabyte auros also has a mATX and full atx version with more pci-e ports and and 2 m.2 ports.

And there are also MSI and ASUS boards to consider. The asus range has had some bios problems according to various threads and the msi tomahawk has been favorably reviewed.

So I'm just saying you seem to have picked the least of them in the pro 4 or k4. and then you're worried about the overclock. So it sounds like there is more chance of problems with your current selection.

that s all very helpfull but i want your answer in the following questions: 1)does the overclock worth it? (how more fps can i get) 2)if i get one of these mobos and try to overclock something in 3.8 and pc doesn t crash, and temps are ok, is there any problem? 3)is there any other mobo for less than 100 that can overclock ryzen 5 2600 to 4.2? 4)so fatality hasn t any disadvantage to pro4 right?

 

[TJ Hooker]

1) You might see up to ~10% increase in FPS if OC'd to 4.2 GHz, depending on the game and graphics card you use (weaker cards will result in less difference in FPS).
2) Any of the motherboards discussed in this thread can OC a 2600 to 3.8 GHz (which is barely an OC compared to regular boost clocks). But if the motherboard wan't up to the task, symptoms you might see other than crashing would be high VRM temps, and possibly clock speed throttling if the VRMs are overheating.
3) Based on the Vortez link I provided above, even an ASRock Pro4 motherboard should be able to handle 4.2 GHz. I also like the MSI B450-A Pro as I mentioned above.
4) No the Fatality doesn't really have any disadvantages compared to the Pro4, other than costing a bit more.

 

[blade_storm]

1) You might see up to ~10% increase in FPS if OC'd to 4.2 GHz, depending on the game and graphics card you use (weaker cards will result in less difference in FPS).
2) Any of the motherboards discussed in this thread can OC a 2600 to 3.8 GHz (which is barely an OC compared to regular boost clocks). But if the motherboard wan't up to the task, symptoms you might see other than crashing would be high VRM temps, and possibly clock speed throttling if the VRMs are overheating.
3) Based on the Vortez link I provided above, even an ASRock Pro4 motherboard should be able to handle 4.2 GHz. I also like the MSI B450-A Pro as I mentioned above.
4) No the Fatality doesn't really have any disadvantages compared to the Pro4, other than costing a bit more.

so as you said i can overclock to 4.2ghz with fatality, just buy an aftermarket cooler

 

[TJ Hooker]

All I can say is that in the Vortez review they got an 8 core 2700X to 4.2 GHz with a board with the same VRMs, so that would suggest it'd be fine for a 6 core 2600. I personally like the B450-A Pro better as you get better VRMs for about the same price, but you miss out on a couple slots/connectors (which I don't think most people would use anyway, but I don't know what you need). But yes, you probably have to buy an aftermarket cooler for 4.2 GHz. I did see one review where they had a 2600 at 4.2 GHz with reasonable temps on the stock cooler, but I'm a little skeptical about it. Even if it worked, I'm guessing fan noise was pretty bad.

 

[blade_storm]

All I can say is that in the Vortez review they got an 8 core 2700X to 4.2 GHz with a board with the same VRMs, so that would suggest it'd be fine for a 6 core 2600. I personally like the B450-A Pro better as you get better VRMs for about the same price, but you miss out on a couple slots/connectors (which I don't think most people would use anyway, but I don't know what you need). But yes, you probably have to buy an aftermarket cooler for 4.2 GHz. I did see one review where they had a 2600 at 4.2 GHz with reasonable temps on the stock cooler, but I'm a little skeptical about it. Even if it worked, I'm guessing fan noise was pretty bad.

aftermarket cooler isn t a problem (right now) but thanks for interesting, yeah i checked this msi mobo but hasn 't rgb support something i need. so why you said earlier that i can t overclock with this motherboards?

 

[DavidM012]

You could overclock with it but I think it will run hotter than the MSI which might be more problematic. It's small odds but quoting Humbug

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/b450-msi-gigabyte-asus-asrock-boards-review-hardware-unboxed.18827089/

'I think the MSI is a 4 phase CPU VRM, as is the Aorus but there is a difference between them, the MSI board has 2 high side MosFets per inductor so 8 total, the Aorus has 8 Inductors but only 1 high side MosFet per pair with a doubler, so 4 high side MosFets, that's why the Aorus VRMs run at 120c where as the MSI VRM only runs at 85c under the same conditions, its the high side MosFets that take all the load and the MSI board has twice as many.'

2 high side mosfets per inductor on the MSI they are talking about the quality of the components on the board. It's small odds but could be all the difference between hassle and less hassle.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3742720/tdp-overclocked-amd-ryzen-2700x.html

They used a h115i water cooler and still got high temps.

Since you're looking for recommendations if none of the b450 boards meet your requirements I'd look towards one of the x470 boards.

Quote orbital walsh from the same convo:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/b450-msi-gigabyte-asus-asrock-boards-review-hardware-unboxed.18827089/

' If any one gave me a free MSI tomahawk, ASUS Strix, Aorus Pro or ASRock 4 i'd take it in a heat beat and happily slap in a 2600 or 2700 and OC to 4.1 - 1.4v happily and game on it all day long . If i was going to do Geomapping or work that involves avx calculations then damn straight it would be a flagship X470, even if its running on stock clocks.
Why people are expecting X470 class components on budget £100 boards i'll never know.

wonder when GN will get these boards and stick some thermal probes to them'

He would overclock if someone gave him a 'free board'. You could buy the Asrock board and overclock with it but overclocking is an endeavor undertaken entirely at your own risk on your own recognisance. If you know something that says it's all going to be fine, more than a benchmark setup that runs for 24 hours to create interesting statistics, then buy the asrock.

Don't underestimate how much heat the overclock will generate.

You could say that you won't overclock by much but then it was said, 3.8 isn't any more than the turbo speed anyway but the mid 3.9-4.0 will put out some watts and the 4.2 will substitute your central heating.

On a different note also I'm not sure if you've understood the need to buy compatible memory for your board. Don't buy any old memory check the compatibility list with the board manufacturer.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-TOMAHAWK/Specification

This spec says it has 2x 5050 rgb led connectors on the full atx version. with a heat sink on the vrm.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450M-PRO-M2/Specification

This spec says it has one led strip connector on the mATX version. But no heat sink on the vrm.