Overclocking: Core i7 Vs. Phenom II

[Lanfiex]

The thermal right ultra 120 extreme has AM2+ mountings available. How comes you can’t use it for this test?

Why not buy 4 x 1 GB rather than 2 x 2 GB, It be cheap and the performance loss would be minor for 32bit. If using 32bit why not just stick with 2 GB? If using 64bit why not go for 8 GB as your spending so much why stop at 4 GB? If this was built at as rendering machine 2 GB a core is the aim.

Finally you know that this AMD chip you have is not a very good (and based for other reviews a one off), so why pretend? hell if any one planning to over clock this chip would have sent it back and exchanged it for a new one. Its not duff it will suit some one fine @ 3 GHz, but as far as over clocking goes this piece of silicon wasn’t meant to go past 3.5ghz at reasonable voltages which is causing the energy to rise significantly with no go to show.

There’s a whole load more about the various nature of this “over clock VS” which could be cover, but it’s all a waste as you know all of this and yet you still produce this article. By doing this you damage your credibility as independent source. Question is it worth it?

 

[megabuster]

[citation][nom]hairycat101[/nom]what ram? those are some tight timings...[/citation]
Corsair XMS2

 

[chaos23]

What's odd is that other sites where able to overclock the phenom II 940 to as high as 3.8ghz on air. This again is proof of the mediocre overclocking skills employed in this article.. Even the core i7 procies could reach much higher clocks without utilizing water cooling, DICE or LN2. Oh well, we all know what this means. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/860/13/

 

[weinheimer]

You need to factor in price / performance. The Phenom II cpu/motherboard/ram combo will cost $200 - $300 less approximately... It really should be compared with Q9400-Q9550 and P45 with DDR2 which would be in same price range.

 

[buzznut]

yeah, the heatsink choice does seem to indicate bias. This is not particularly scientific analysis. It would be easy enough to find/clock the DDR3 ram to speeds similar to 1066 MHz, wouldn't it?

If you just want to say i7 is faster well, duh.. It is based on newer technology. Intel obviously has a stranglehold on the market and can spend almost unlimited amounts on r&d, facilities, highest wages for workers, etc.

It looks like the point of this article was supposed to be how the Phenom 2 overclocks in comparison to the i7. Why would you not use the best air-cooling available for the P2?

I don't get it.

 

[chaos23]

It looks like the point of this article was supposed to be how the Phenom 2 overclocks in comparison to the i7. Why would you not use the best air-cooling available for the P2?

I don't get it.

Me neither. Reminds me of one ati vs. nvidia head to head review (also here in tom's, I think.. ) where the latest drivers were used for the nvidia cards while the on the other hand catalyst drivers not optimized for the 4000 series were used for the ati cards.

 

[darcotech]

Well, I think that AMD is better overall solutions even for a gamers cause for 250$ difference you can by yourself second graphic card or better one. And I7 can't beat that.CPU to CPU, I7 is better even on same freq, but platform wise (and thats more important I think) AMD is better,cause you get more for your money.So for the same budget your Gamer PC should be better with AMd than with Intel.And no I am not fan of AMD.I have both Intel Q6600 and X2 in my house. I am just fan of"best bang for bucks" products. lol

 

[Guest]

This is quite absurd: intel platform gets Thermalright ultra heatsink and amd platform gets pesky no-name crap-ass cooler. Is this review biased or not?.... huh!

 

[Guest]

Will toms run these benchmarks again with the i7 at dual channel rather than triple channel ddr3?
I believe it would shed some light on the performance differences rather than changing the cooler. Everyone keeps talking about the difference in the cooler, but consider a situation where someone is upgrading from a core 2 ddr3 setup and only has two ddr3dimms.
What would the numbers look like with 2 ddr3(2x2gb) dimms and how would they compare to phenom IIs with 2 ddr2 dimms(2x2gb)?
Consider a situation where both phenom II and core i7 processors were running at 3.6GHz as well for example and we'll have an interesting situation where the ground is somewhat even, wouldn't you agree?
I hope toms will do this.

 

[Guest]

better yet if said dimms both ran at 1066MHz and similar timings, and whilst this would not reflect max performance it would reflect how 2 similarly built systems where only the processor and architecture(chipset, mobo, ram, possibly cooler) differs would react towards benchmarks.
Sorry for the double post, but I'm just interested in seeing how similarly built systems which are almost truly symmetrical would compare side by side.

 

[sohei]

it is a great site ,but it's made by humans

 

[sohei]

a great site but it's made by humans

 

[jcknouse]

I hate to bust nuts, but here goes:

To those who said the cooler difference in the comparison was unfair -

Absolutely true...it is not fair to run two different coolers (especially of such variant qualities) on the test.

However, tt was said in the article that they used what they had in the lab, not like the SBM articles where they order all new, custom stuff.


Those of you who dog the ddr2/AM2+/790*X vs ddr3/LGA1366/X58 -

I absolute agree. Comparing a brand new socket/memory tech/chipset like the Intel platform to an AM2+ tech which is bordering on what...2 years old?

Firstly I see that, from a basic standing, the DDR3 is naturally going to perform better than DDR2. Secondly, 1600 vs 1066 puts PhenomII at a disadvantage again. Finally, the fact the Intel was clocked higher.

However again, I think the Tom's staff wanted to show:

a) an example of what, with just the CPU they got (not hunting or whatever for the best chip) how stably high it could be OCed.
b) a little comparison of the 2 new, and relatively unsettled (from the aspect of parts on the market and time in use by the masses) platforms.
c) something to give you an idea of what value is there for your money, whether you are scraping to get a new system or you have $4k in your pocket waiting to get the bleeding edge tech.

These guys at Toms work with limited resources, much like most of us work with limited personal budgets to get stuff. Give em a break. Considering how many articles they put out a month, we should be thankful they work their butts off doing it.

 

[sohei]

jcknouse....please give us a break ...when you work for the benefit of human kind it's thing (greenpeace) ,when you built,manage a bussines it's another thing ...especialy when your articles influence costumers

 

[squatchman]

Is anyone else starting to think that the price/performance argument isn't holding any water?

These PII chips are 10% less than a Core i7 920, but the performance is looking far lower than the i7 in tests. You can argue that the savings are in the motherboard and ram, but the PII early adopters are just going to buy new AM3 boards and DDR3 memory when they drop later this year anyway. You save money now, only to spend it anyway later.

I just don't see the savings, and by the time AM3 drops we're all going to be staring into the gaping maw of Westmere already.

 

[jrabbitb]

yes, but even those who go for am3 later, they can do an incremental upgrade by first buying the am3 chip (which works in am2 socket, just switches to ddr2 instead of ddr3) and then later switch to a am3 board w/ ddr3 (when the prices come down). one of the things that isn't mentioned very often is the upgrade ability of these chips right now. and especially for those who are on am2/am2+ already.

but to those who say things like "its only a few frame rates to get the i7, why bother, i cant see those frame rates anyway" well yeah, most human eyes cant see beyond 60fps, but you arnt just getting a system like this for right now, I'd hope if you spend a good chunk of money you'd use it for a while so crysis 3 will run on your i7 better then a p2 (and I'm an AMD fanboy saying this so stfu). and no, you shouldn't consider the "I'm going to buy a new pc every year" enthusiast, because they are just a consumer whore super minority even among overclockers, many of us overclock so we can extend the life of our machines and not have to spend a fortune.

 

[spearhead]

[citation][nom]zenmaster[/nom]Actually it would just be pulling even on Liquid Nitrogen based on some of those results.Then toss the Liquid Nitro on the i7 and bye-bye again........[/citation]
yes that might be true. but why would we bother about liquid results it sure is cool to see how far it can be pushed and all and good for competitions but i think its a waste of a great piece of expansive hardware. both core I7 and phenom are good and they aren't comparible in price because they both serve a diffrent sigment. phenom II supports the value high-end class where core 2 quad is competing while core I7 supports the extreme high-end tier. and both look promissing but i however think it is better to get a 2nd videocard instead of the fastest processor since my main purpose would be gaming and downloading stuff. sure having faster winrar speeds and all might be nice but the diffrence here in the netherlands is just to big and again im not going to game on a 24inch+ monitor i might go for 22inch and i like to do it in steps because i dont have toomuch money at one time see that is why i might be better of with phenom. it serves what i want and can afford.
btw i rather get my self an almost new kymco scooter first instead of buying a new pc anway. so it will be around mid summer when i have got enough for a new system and that isn't a problem beause all this new hardware is going to drop in price for sure .

 

[jcknouse]

Actually that I remember seeing, Tom's staff usually do not give a definitive "get this only" suggestion unless some technology simply has most every advantage over the competition. And in today's times and economic conditions, people as well as business are willing to sacrifice some performance for a cost savings of 20-30 percent on a system.

That I have seen, they give open suggestions as to what product performing at what level in what circumstances is the best for different situations.

i.e.- they seem very impartial in their reviews.

Take what you will from my comments. But I tend to agree with Tom's from the perspective of it not being worth paying the premium for the Intel product, unless you have a want/need/requirement to have the fastest thing around possible and have the money to spare.

Anyways as I said earlier, I am just waiting for the PhenomII AM3 to come out with more similar technologies. I want to see if the Dragon architecture on AM3 puts them in league with the x58/LGA1366 stuff.

BTW about the benefit thing:

You should always be thankful to someone who does something for you that makes things easier for you, especially when you are not paying a dime for their work.

Or perhaps I was just raised differently. Who knows...and who cares.

Good luck to you, sohei

[citation][nom]sohei[/nom]jcknouse....please give us a break ...when you work for the benefit of human kind it's thing (greenpeace) ,when you built,manage a bussines it's another thing ...especialy when your articles influence costumers[/citation]

 

[sohei]

you think that we are not paying anything?
the consumers create this industry.Our money and this kind of reviews site's is the big part of this industry this is the part that decide in which direction will go futher, but the problem is not you or me because we will buy something at the end.. amd or nvidia or ati or intel ...me personaly i don't like the little things like the picture at the presentation of the article,another article like this was "Phenom Recycled" this is a name for an article for a new product?

 

[Guest]

intel has enough of customers to keep them afloat.
amd maybe should just do it, get new tech heads, what ever it takes to take that big jump. Hire someone with something to prove, what ever.

 

[Guest]

Really strange conclusion drawn here. Conclusions like:
"sacrifice a bit of speed" and "handle every task nearly as well as i7 does" are in my opinion, totally WRONG. The i7 crushes almost everything the 940 does, except for maybe one case or two.
Further on, the real world gaming examples given here are mainly GPU-bound and shows nothing of the potential availible in the i7. Running graphics settings at "very high" does not show differences in CPU speed and thats why results are equal between the CPU.

I also believe the non-overclocked i7 would deliver the most compelling experience.

Ive read many reviews on the CPU doing exactly the same errors performed here. I would recommend googling non gpu-bound reviews.

Comparing games at 640 resolution gives a much better hint of non GPU-bound performance, especially considering the longetivity of these CPUs (GPU wont be limiting factor a year or two from now)


/AMD x2 3800+ user

 

[jcknouse]

Are you paying anything? Out of your pocket and directly to Toms...no...you're not...at least, not that I'm aware of. I've never been asked to pay.

Q: Do I patronize sponsors/advertisers of Tom's.

A: A resounding...hell yes. In fact, I've spent probably over $10,000 with Newegg alone for solely personal computer purposes in the past 5-6 years. But I didn't do it just because I saw them on Toms, but because Newegg has treated me VERY well in the past and treated me like a valued, respected customer...plus they have near the best, if not the best, prices on the net for computer-related stuff.

But to be honest, consumers create nothing. Their patronage furthers the existence through either purchases or indirectly through their presence being exposed to ads that generate revenue. But, someone created Tom's and its concept long before anyone saw it on the web and definitely before it did so much work reviewing and reporting, I'm sure.

I understand your dismay with the tagging sometimes, but I try not to judge a book by its cover...or an article or review.

Like anything in the publication industry, titles and tag lines are meant to sensationalize to some degree to gather attention of the persons examining their content. In your case, that one title "Phenom Recycled" did get your attention, you read it, and found the title to be askew of the content.

However, it got you to read it...right? That's the whole goal. Patronage.

It's essentially the same principle as Howard Stern and other media outlets use to attract patronage...it's more sophomoric with his show...but what shocks or intrigues or raises an eyebrow with people will keep your regular patrons interested...and those who don't patronize you that much will get even more interested.

At least the people at Tom's work to give fair assessments with caveats on the conditions, if they exist. Some information outlets aren't so prudent and just with their analysis, usually due to editors and staff being tightly aligned with various advertisers and interests from which they benefit.

I understand your points, but there...trust me...a LOT worse sites to get your information from on the internet.

If you read Tom's content in their reviews and study what their comments and results are, it gives you more than just a black and white answer to a question...it gives you understanding to be prepared for more than just one circumstance and how they recommend it be dealt with.


[citation][nom]sohei[/nom]you think that we are not paying anything? the consumers create this industry.Our money and this kind of reviews site's is the big part of this industry this is the part that decide in which direction will go futher, but the problem is not you or me because we will buy something at the end.. amd or nvidia or ati or intel ...me personaly i don't like the little things like the picture at the presentation of the article,another article like this was "Phenom Recycled" this is a name for an article for a new product?[/citation]

 

[scryer_360]

Whats eating me here is that in the first set of tests on Phenom II, it looked like a Q6600 overclocked to 3 gigahertz would nearly match the Phenom II Black Edition (given how much slower the Q6600 was compared to Phenom II, then accounting for the 600 megahertz difference). And in testing, the I7 920 was faster than the QX9770.

So now, overclocking the Phenom II Black Edition to a slower clock speed than the Core i7 920 yields gaming results that show the 920 as being only slightly, barely even, faster in most games, and Call of Duty: World at War being the only one where it flexes its muscle any.

Whats going on with these benchmarks? I think the CPU charts need updated so we can see what the 920, Phenom II black, and QX9770 will do when graphics horsepower is no question (either 2 4870 X2's or three GTX 280s linked up). Because right now, I'm really wondering where these scores are coming from. Thats not me doubting Toms, its me doubting the benchmarks. Drivers? Bad benchmark software this turn around? At 3 gigahertz a Q6600 may be very close to a Phenom II Black Edition.... jeez.

 

[scryer_360]

Also, I have to ask about Memory: 6 gigs of DDR3 versus 4 gigs of DDR2. Speedwise DDR3 wins and there is two more gigs of it. So why is the Phenom so close in most games?

For me to understand this AMD is going to have to ship some AM3 samples out to Toms and other sites so we can get equal amounts of memory at equal speeds benchmarked. Right now, with a little more memory at higher speeds, the Phenom II may even be quicker than an OC'ed 920...

 

[sohei]

don't trouble whit writing
man your problem is that you say almost the truth.
ex:"Like anything in the publication industry, titles and tag lines are meant to sensationalize to some degree to gather attention of the persons examining their content" when a company lunch a product there are 2 direction for future salesne bad ,another good . whith this title Phenom Recycled is something good ? it.s that cpu garbage? that cpu was design for a category of consumers .When that category read that title will buy something? in other way of speaking : this site is recycled ,your pc components are recycled ...it's sounds good? don't get me wrong....