Question overclocking on a B intel series

[LORYT699]

Hi,
fast question, can I overclock a cpu on a B chipset from intel?
I mean, I know that you have to get a K cpu with a Z mobo but actually at home I have a z590(probably a z590 or a 490) edge wifi that actually can overclock an i3 10100f, and this shuld not be possible.
Also I ve seen some video about bckl oc on B mobo, so my question is a bit more then what I wrote.
My target is a b660 rog with an 13600k, does this pair make me oc normally or if I want to oc I have to use the bckl, and if so which are the risks?

 

[Lutfij]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rip-overclockable-non-k-intel-chips-we-hardly-knew-ye
(scroll to the middle of that article+) You'd need boards that have an external clock generator.

Can you please pass on the board you're looking at for your build? IMHO, I'd stick to a non K suffix processor and high frequency, tight latencied ram and call it a day.

 

[geofelt]

What is the main use of the pc?
If it is for gaming, where only a few cores will be used, the turbo mechanism is the better option.
That will boost a few cores past what an all core overclock could do.
No longer can you get something for nothing via overclocking.
Parts are binned and the more capable chips will be used in higher priced models.

I think Intel frowns on this and pressures motherboard makers to stop shipping bios updates for non Z motherboards to allow overclocking.

 

[DRagor]

I'm not aware anyone doing BCKL method on 13th gen CPUs. In fact I would be tempted to bet Intel already blocked this for 13th gen.

 

[LORYT699]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rip-overclockable-non-k-intel-chips-we-hardly-knew-ye
(scroll to the middle of that article+) You'd need boards that have an external clock generator.

Can you please pass on the board you're looking at for your build? IMHO, I'd stick to a non K suffix processor and high frequency, tight latencied ram and call it a day.

what is an external clock generator?
Actually I think I m not doing a new build this year cause I have an 9600k that isn t that old for me so my project is to change in an hipotetical gen 15 or 16 or relative amd gen but I had this question in my head for a while, I ve read that b mobo don t have the multiplier unloked but is just a software thing and not an actual hardware based thing.
btw the mobo was an ASUS b660 - I rog strix wi fi.
The point was that I would like an mini itx pc and z mini itx mobo cost like 400€ and is way to much

 

[LORYT699]

I'm not aware anyone doing BCKL method on 13th gen CPUs. In fact I would be tempted to bet Intel already blocked this for 13th gen.

well actually with b660 they were doing bclk oc on 12600 or 12400

 

[Eximo]

So there is an internal clock generator that is usually 100Mhz. On some motherboards with the right BIOS you can set BCLK to 101 or 102 and get a small boost that way.

With an external clock generator you have options like 125Mhz or 150Mhz, and then you can really maximize a locked CPU because you still have access to the clock multipliers that are available on the CPU. If it was say 46x and you did 125Mhz that would get you to 5750 Mhz, that is likely too much, but you can tune it down to say 43 and run at 5375 Mhz.

It required a high end motherboard that let you run other bclk ratios. This was pretty much only on high end Z boards. Never really made sense outside of record setting. If you have the money for a $300 board, then you can afford an unlocked chip and a more average motherboard.

Not to mention a BIOS that let you do such things to a locked CPU. Intel was pretty mad about unlocked BCLK overclocking a few times. Usually ASRock doing it.

 

[DRagor]

well actually with b660 they were doing bclk oc on 12600 or 12400

Exactly. Those are 12th gen, and I wrote it's probably blocked on 13th gen. 13600K you wrote you are interested in is 13th gen.

 

[LORYT699]

Exactly. Those are 12th gen, and I wrote it's probably blocked on 13th gen. 13600K you wrote you are interested in is 13th gen.

ok, so I will check it

 

[LORYT699]

So there is an internal clock generator that is usually 100Mhz. On some motherboards with the right BIOS you can set BCLK to 101 or 102 and get a small boost that way.

With an external clock generator you have options like 125Mhz or 150Mhz, and then you can really maximize a locked CPU because you still have access to the clock multipliers that are available on the CPU. If it was say 46x and you did 125Mhz that would get you to 5750 Mhz, that is likely too much, but you can tune it down to say 43 and run at 5375 Mhz.

It required a high end motherboard that let you run other bclk ratios. This was pretty much only on high end Z boards. Never really made sense outside of record setting. If you have the money for a $300 board, then you can afford an unlocked chip and a more average motherboard.

Not to mention a BIOS that let you do such things to a locked CPU. Intel was pretty mad about unlocked BCLK overclocking a few times. Usually ASRock doing it.

and then with the external clock gen I should also check my ram frequency right?
So for short classic multiplier are not avaliable in b motherboard and all you can do is bckl oc if the exact mobo with the exact bios can, no matter the cpu if is k or not.
If so, last thing, on b mobo can I adjust the cpu voltage and/or the offset?also for the ram?then again, I ve heared that the multiplier actually is in the bios but just for the max as the turbo is right?

 

[Eximo]

Yes, core voltages and offsets are usually found on most motherboards that are not OEM. Memory as well.

You can edit the multipliers down on a B series board, just can't go over what each chip is specced for by default regardless of chip type.

 

[LORYT699]

Yes, core voltages and offsets are usually found on most motherboards that are not OEM. Memory as well.

You can edit the multipliers down on a B series board, just can't go over what each chip is specced for by default regardless of chip type.

So if I ve a 13600k I can go up to 3.9 but not at 5.1 with standard multiplier? I ve heard that you can use the classic multiplier you can go up to the turbo frequency

 

[Eximo]

So if I ve a 13600k I can go up to 3.9 but not at 5.1 with standard multiplier? I ve heard that you can use the classic multiplier you can go up to the turbo frequency

I get what you are saying, but I don't know why you think that. Whatever the default multipliers are is the maximum. Default does not equate to base or boost, but whatever they set at the factory, which includes a whole range of settings for each chip. Single core speeds, dual core speeds multicore speeds, boost, thermal velocity boost, efficiency core base and boost, all core base. The defaults.

 

[Karadjgne]

Back in the day, talking 3rd/4th Gen now, cpus had room to move. Intel was way ahead in IPC, Amd had nothing that could touch a 3570, and the K class cpus were better still. 3rd Gen could get a 1.1-1.2GHz and still be stable with a golden chip, my 3770k could do 5.0GHz at 1.4v.

So Intel really didn't need to push boundaries, interested more in just keeping Amd in 2nd place with small tik-toc bumps in performance as skylake ++++...... progressed.

Then came Ryzen. That meant Intel had to seriously up its game and cpus now started to come with a big push, hitting 5.0GHz in a stock configuration. The days of a good user OC were done and gone. Today there's so little room for advancement in the cpus that OC is effectively dead, there's no real point to it. You are fortunate to just get a locked core OC or even bump Turbo up 0.1-0.2GHz and with the amount of cores games use in general, having half a cpu overclocked to turbo speeds, power consumption, heat output and not being used is just a waste.

So even with a BCLK or external clock generator, the gains are so minimal and the resultant downgrade in possible stability simply don't add up as equal. Unless you'd be looking at exotic cooling like LN2 or peltier or phase change, then with standard cooling and today's cpus, stock setups and possibly MCE are about 96%+ of what's possible, the remaining 4%- being a few fps, as in 10 or less.

BCLK has its hands in everything, not just the cpu. It's also dealing with communications between the cpu and ram, gpu and cpu, storage and ram etc and changing from 100.00 can disrupt things and create instability from an otherwise perfectly running pc.

Your choice, but personally it's not worth it for anything other than benchmarks.

 

[Eximo]

I want to say since 10th gen they unganged the BCLK for the CPU from the PCIe bus and other clocks. I recall some records being set with the i3-10100.

To me it is just a matter of cost. With the right motherboard you can do BCLK overclocking and get interesting results with cheap chips, but you can also just buy the more expensive processor and a cheaper motherboard and get better results with simple multiplier overclocking and memory tuning.

 

[uWebb429]

5.1

That is the maximum turbo multiplier for the 13600K. You can run this multiplier continuously on a B660 board regardless of how many cores are active.

Some of the Asus boards have an option in the BIOS to use the early 0x104 microcode. This allows undervolting to work properly. Less voltage can drop full load temps by up to 20C. It is a great combo and can score over 24000 in Cinebench R23 when setup properly.