Question Overclocking RAM ?

[.valkyrie.]

hi, i am using Asus prime B660 MA that can OC memory up to 5333.
here is my question about OC. does that mean a 3200 memory can be OC to 5333? if not, what memory can do so? 4000mhz memory's are so expensive.
so do i get a lot of performance difference?

i am chosing between Corsair Vengeance 3200 or 3600 with heatsink, OR Agies 3200.

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

does that mean a 3200 memory can be OC to 5333? if not, what memory can do so?
so do i get a lot of performance difference?

You would have to find memory that can run at the speed you desire. Each memory kit has its own limitations regardless of motherboard. You won't find much DDR4 that can run at 5333. If you do, it will likely be the most expensive memory out there. If there were some out there, there weren't many and they were all bought up.

Make notice of the voltage and CAS latency (timings) along with the speed/transfer rate. Lower voltage and lower latency are both desirable specs when choosing the best memory.

 

[Zerk2012]

hi, i am using Asus prime B660 MA that can OC memory up to 5333.
here is my question about OC. does that mean a 3200 memory can be OC to 5333? if not, what memory can do so? 4000mhz memory's are so expensive.
so do i get a lot of performance difference?

i am chosing between Corsair Vengeance 3200 or 3600 with heatsink, OR Agies 3200.

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-c...pdesk_qvl_memory/?model2Name=PRIME-B660M-A-D4

Going to cost you a lot of money.

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

There is typically a sweet spot for price/performance. With DDR4 it's typically 3200 or 3600.

 

[geofelt]

Ram that has been well binned will be capable of higher than default speeds.
To run at the advertised 3200 or 3600 speed, the ram will technically be overclocked.
While you could get lucky and be able to overclock your ram higher than advertised, do not count on it.
If the ram chips were capable of higher speed, it would have been used in faster part numbers that sell for more.

Do not chase max ram speeds for Intel. The normal app performance is not much impacted.
3200 or 3600 speed is fine.
At a given speed, lower cas timings are better and will show up as higher prices.

 

[falcon291]

3200 to 5333. Good luck, but no. These speeds are rather DDR5 speeds.

 

[.valkyrie.]

You would have to find memory that can run at the speed you desire. Each memory kit has its own limitations regardless of motherboard. You won't find much DDR4 that can run at 5333. If you do, it will likely be the most expensive memory out there. If there were some out there, there weren't many and they were all bought up.

Make notice of the voltage and CAS latency (timings) along with the speed/transfer rate. Lower voltage and lower latency are both desirable specs when choosing the best memory.

so basically when a memory is 3600 it cant be OC to anything beyond? am i right? i thought its like CPU that i can overclock for example from 3 ghz to 4ghz...
so , i have to pay 20% more money for 3600 over 3200... is that worth it?

 

[.valkyrie.]

Ram that has been well binned will be capable of higher than default speeds.
To run at the advertised 3200 or 3600 speed, the ram will technically be overclocked.
While you could get lucky and be able to overclock your ram higher than advertised, do not count on it.
If the ram chips were capable of higher speed, it would have been used in faster part numbers that sell for more.

Do not chase max ram speeds for Intel. The normal app performance is not much impacted.
3200 or 3600 speed is fine.
At a given speed, lower cas timings are better and will show up as higher prices.

that seems logical...
so for 12th gen Intel, is it worth paying 10$ more (20% more for 2*8gb) for 3600 or 3200 is enough? is CPU capable of using that in ddr4? i saw in intel website that it run 3200 on ddr4 or 4800 ddr5.... so,..
by the way, i can also get a pair of ADATA for even less than Agies ... so comparing to Corsair, its 30 % lower.... but Adata does not have heatsink.... so if i cant OC , why would i need heatsink on RAM??

 

[bill001g]

The CPU can run either ddr4 or ddr5 but you would have to replace the motherboard to do it. Maybe there is some strange motherboard that can take either ddr4 or ddr5 but I have not see one.

It is much more complex than just comparing the numbers on ddr4 and ddr5. You can get ddr5 memory that will transfer less data than ddr4 memory. If you look the CL number is always much higher on ddr5.

This delay is also very important even when you compare ddr4 models. A 3600 with a high cas number can have a lower transfer rate than 3200 with a low cas number.

It is a combination of all these things you adjust if you were to overclock memory not just the raw speed of the memory.

In the end it really depends if the application you are running can take advantage of faster memory. Spending more on fancy memory tends to give you less benefit than spending the money on cpu or gpu.

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

so basically when a memory is 3600 it cant be OC to anything beyond? am i right? i thought its like CPU that i can overclock for example from 3 ghz to 4ghz...
so , i have to pay 20% more money for 3600 over 3200... is that worth it?

Yes and no. You can overclock memory beyond what it is advertised, typically by increasing one or more of these; voltage, latency, and clock speed. This; however, may introduce instability to the system (as with any overclocking).

I'll say this.. and it may just be more confusing. You may find DDR4 3200 CAS 16 1.35V and DDR4 3600 CAS 18 1.35V. I would get whichever has the better price because of the higher timings on the 3600 take away from the higher clock speed (somewhat, not completely.) They could both probably do 3600 at C18. The drawback is that you have to tweak the settings yourself and hope it works if you expect overclock the RAM yourself. XMP profiles are awesome. Take advantage of them. If you find higher clock speed with the same CAS Latency and voltage, then you should have a better quality piece of silicon.

This is why we are not seeing any huge increases from DDR5 RAM performance (1-5%). You may find DDR5 6000 all day long, but it has a CAS Latency of 40ms. That's double the clock rate, but it's also over double the latency. There are good things about DDR5, but latency is not one of my favorite things about it. While you will get SOME performance increase out of faster clock rates along with higher latency, you will find the cost of the higher clock speeds to be higher than your performance increase.

Find your sweet sport for cost. If you find faster RAM that you like AND want to pay for, then go for it.

 

[zx128k]

I remember the DDR4-5333 kit from G Skill, you had to get the right motherobard and a 11900k. CL22 (22-32-32-52) at 1.60V Just imgine the vccsa voltage for that frequency.

You can get kingston fury renegade KF453C20RBK2/16. DDR4-5333 CL20-30-30 @1.6V Like >>£300+ kits were I live.

Getting this speed in a 24/7 system my not be posible with the right RAM kit. Memory controller and motherboard have to like that frequency. Then there are the voltages.

 

[.valkyrie.]

Yes and no. You can overclock memory beyond what it is advertised, typically by increasing one or more of these; voltage, latency, and clock speed. This; however, may introduce instability to the system (as with any overclocking).

I'll say this.. and it may just be more confusing. You may find DDR4 3200 CAS 16 1.35V and DDR4 3600 CAS 18 1.35V. I would get whichever has the better price because of the higher timings on the 3600 take away from the higher clock speed (somewhat, not completely.) They could both probably do 3600 at C18. The drawback is that you have to tweak the settings yourself and hope it works if you expect overclock the RAM yourself. XMP profiles are awesome. Take advantage of them. If you find higher clock speed with the same CAS Latency and voltage, then you should have a better quality piece of silicon.

This is why we are not seeing any huge increases from DDR5 RAM performance (1-5%). You may find DDR5 6000 all day long, but it has a CAS Latency of 40ms. That's double the clock rate, but it's also over double the latency. There are good things about DDR5, but latency is not one of my favorite things about it. While you will get SOME performance increase out of faster clock rates along with higher latency, you will find the cost of the higher clock speeds to be higher than your performance increase.

Find your sweet sport for cost. If you find faster RAM that you like AND want to pay for, then go for it.

now i understand more....


here are my options


Corsair vengeance lpx 3600- cl 18
(2*8 for 2200 price)

Adata 8Gb 3200 Cl 22 1.2V (for 2X of them cost 1540 price)

Axtrom Tesla 8Gb Cl 16 1.2V (2x8 cost 1790) +heatsink

Agies same spec as Axtrom BUT with 1.35V and it cost 1820

Also: apacer panter with heatsink But 1X16 GB and 3200 , CL 16-20-20-38 and it cost 1900


so if you would have to pick btw these , what would you pick?


and if you want to understand these prices in $ , 2000 = around 47$

 

[.valkyrie.]

I remember the DDR4-5333 kit from G Skill, you had to get the right motherobard and a 11900k. CL22 (22-32-32-52) at 1.60V Just imgine the vccsa voltage for that frequency.

You can get kingston fury renegade KF453C20RBK2/16. DDR4-5333 CL20-30-30 @1.6V Like >>£300+ kits were I live.

Getting this speed in a 24/7 system my not be posible with the right RAM kit. Memory controller and motherboard have to like that frequency. Then there are the voltages.

thanks, i don't think i would pay 300 € while my CPU is just a Core 12100 or maby an i5....

here is what i thought, if i buy Axtrom or Agies i mentioned in above post, i can spend those extra money on a better NVMe or even not spend it at all

by the way i should later google more about intel optain memory to see if it worth it because i have 6Tb hhd and maby obtain is enough for me

 

[.valkyrie.]

The CPU can run either ddr4 or ddr5 but you would have to replace the motherboard to do it. Maybe there is some strange motherboard that can take either ddr4 or ddr5 but I have not see one.

It is much more complex than just comparing the numbers on ddr4 and ddr5. You can get ddr5 memory that will transfer less data than ddr4 memory. If you look the CL number is always much higher on ddr5.

This delay is also very important even when you compare ddr4 models. A 3600 with a high cas number can have a lower transfer rate than 3200 with a low cas number.

It is a combination of all these things you adjust if you were to overclock memory not just the raw speed of the memory.

In the end it really depends if the application you are running can take advantage of faster memory. Spending more on fancy memory tends to give you less benefit than spending the money on cpu or gpu.

how about Voltage ⚡?
by reading this replies by you kind people, i think, 3200+cl16 is Same as 3600 with CL18.... but i didnt find out if the ram requires more V, its better or not.... for example btw those axtrom and Agies. they are same , but one require 1.2 other 1.35 ...
p.s: i am not sure if its correct because i couldn't find official website and this is what written on the shop webpage and it may be wrong

 

[bill001g]

you are correct 3200 cl 16 and 3600 cl 18 has the same latency but the 3600 might have slightly better performance in some case...it depends on what all those other numbers are there are a bunch of other clock numbers like the 16 20 20 38 you mention. It makes your head hurt to try to calculate out this stuff.
If they were exactly the same price you would go with the 3600 cl18 in most cases. The voltages seem to some extent depend on the manufacture of the actual IC chips used on the memory. Most this is all set for you when you enable the XMP features. You generally don't have to worry unless you start getting close to 1.5 on most systems.

From your list do not buy 1x16 memory buy 2x8. This is because most systems are optimized to run 2 banks of memory....but again like most memory things there are exceptions because there are different kinds of 1x16 modules.

From what I can tell memory timing helps mostly stuff like cpu based rendering which nobody really does any more and something like zip file compression and decompression.

I would not spend a lot of money on faster memory unless you know for sure you are running a application that will benefit. It all depends on how much the cost matters. Although it is tiny it makes people "feel good" to think they can increase the performance of their machine for $10 when they can't afford the $500 to buy a better graphics card that would make a actual difference. In general most people can not tell the difference between memory clock speeds without some kind of number telling them it is different.

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

As mentioned above, stick with a single kit of dual stick to run in dual-channel for best performance.

 

[.valkyrie.]

As mentioned above, stick with a single kit of dual stick to run in dual-channel for best performance.

so basically spending 20% more for 3600 is not ideal.

then j should go for either
agies or Axtrom.
both have same spec but one is 1.35v other is 1.2V


So lower Voltage ⚡ is better? basically Axtrom is better? but is that even a brand? anyone heard or saw anything from that brand?
p.s: i am not doing anything special, maby just casual gaming or basic windows stuff...

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Hey there,

Just to add to some others provided info. Whilst your motherboard may be able to support those mem speeds, your CPU only supports 3200mhz. It's not guaranteed that the IMC of the CPU can handle faster speeds. You take a chance on that.

With that said, the IMC on Intel chips are pretty robust, and often work with ram clocks much higher than supported.

 

[bill001g]

You would have to dig around to find what each chip company is doing. If you were to take the labels off the chips it is highly unlikely they make the actual memory chips. Almost all ram memory comes from samsung,micron or SK.
Many of these lessor known ram makers are just following a design provided by memory chip manufacture they buy from.

The lower voltage part likely are going to be better. It in theory at least give you the ability to attempt to overclock the memory and increase the voltage yourself. Many times increasing the voltage will allow memory to run at faster rates and stay more stable.

 

[.valkyrie.]

You would have to dig around to find what each chip company is doing. If you were to take the labels off the chips it is highly unlikely they make the actual memory chips. Almost all ram memory comes from samsung,micron or SK.
Many of these lessor known ram makers are just following a design provided by memory chip manufacture they buy from.

The lower voltage part likely are going to be better. It in theory at least give you the ability to attempt to overclock the memory and increase the voltage yourself. Many times increasing the voltage will allow memory to run at faster rates and stay more stable.

ok thanks... then Axtrom it is....


by the way, an irrelevant question to this....
as i mentioned, i am using it for casual eSports and watching YouTube that can ruin SSD, so, my plan was Not buying a ssd and just use Intel Optane M10 16Gb + my HDD..... seems that it can perform same lvl as a Sata SSD.

before i Bought Asus prime b660MA-wifi, i saw in asus website that it support Intel Optane. but it seems Intel discontinued it on 12-13 gen.... any idea about that?

 

[.valkyrie.]

You would have to dig around to find what each chip company is doing. If you were to take the labels off the chips it is highly unlikely they make the actual memory chips. Almost all ram memory comes from samsung,micron or SK.
Many of these lessor known ram makers are just following a design provided by memory chip manufacture they buy from.

The lower voltage part likely are going to be better. It in theory at least give you the ability to attempt to overclock the memory and increase the voltage yourself. Many times increasing the voltage will allow memory to run at faster rates and stay more stable.

https://axtrom.com/product/axtrom-memory-tesla-ddr4-3200mhz-8gb-cl16/

this is the ram but it seems it doesn't support XMP. so its what it is and not overclockable?


other one is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Skill-Aegis-F4-3200C16S-8GIS-DDR4-3200/dp/B07YV65BGD

 

[.valkyrie.]

anyway, it seems i made mistake buying B660ma wifi while i could have it all by H610ma wifi... basically , a good 610 can offer everything a 660 can offer. whats the point of having better chip. unless its Z series for cpu OC

 

[bill001g]

Well that partially explains it. The company is not aegis that is just a part from a very well known memory provider gskill.

You actually want neither of those if those are exactly what you are looking to buy.
From gskill you want to use F4-3200C16d-16GIS

That is a matched pair of 8gb sticks.

The axtrom is hard to tell if they sell kits their site only shows the single models unless you buy the ones with the led. You really need a kit you run a big risk of the modules not running together if you must buy 2 random modules even if they have the same part number.

The gskill ones run at 1.2 volts also but the 1.35 is when you run them at 3200 using XMP. I would assume axtrom just does not document things well. 3200 is a overclock just from the factory and XMP is used to increase the settings as well as the voltage so you manually don't need to do it yourself.

 

[.valkyrie.]

Well that partially explains it. The company is not aegis that is just a part from a very well known memory provider gskill.

You actually want neither of those if those are exactly what you are looking to buy.
From gskill you want to use F4-3200C16d-16GIS

That is a matched pair of 8gb sticks.

The axtrom is hard to tell if they sell kits their site only shows the single models unless you buy the ones with the led. You really need a kit you run a big risk of the modules not running together if you must buy 2 random modules even if they have the same part number.

The gskill ones run at 1.2 volts also but the 1.35 is when you run them at 3200 using XMP. I would assume axtrom just does not document things well. 3200 is a overclock just from the factory and XMP is used to increase the settings as well as the voltage so you manually don't need to do it yourself.

ok then i get that one. i search around and found out that its available for same price even a bit less than 2 separate 8Gb....

f4-3200C16d-16GIS

after all, thanks for your information and your help. i figured out which one is better.