P4 Burnout??? Noooo! it cant be!

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<font color=blue>"it's no ones fault but your own if you burn up your processor. Thats like saying that the new LCD's suck because you dropped it and the screen cracked. Therefore all LCD's screens are horrible and the worst things ever.

that is your logic and it doesn't make any sense. If a fan fails who's fault is that? you should know when your fan isn't working anymore."</font color=blue>

You must have read a different post, or have quite an imagination, as you responed to issues that I did not put in writing.

I didn't blame anyone (or company).

I simply responded that this was the first I have heard of a P4 in thermal death, vs. dozens of Athlons from this site alone.

My conclusion was Intel has better thermal protection then AMD, but who cares anyway?

How is one to know when the fan fails? By the sound? My fan is quiet, since it only has to cool a 900mhz Tbird. I keep my case closed, so the visual clue is out. I use motherboard monitor, but depending on the application running, MM output can be ignored. No matter how you look at it, Intel has the superior themal protection. It means nothing, until you need it (like fire insurance).

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
 
It's still your responsibilty no matter how you look at it.

you bought it therefore it's yours. All fingers point to you if it breaks. The only exceptions is when it's dead and didn't work in the first place. After that it's all your fault or my fault or whoever that owns it fault.

You can't buy a VCR, break it, and blame it on the company. Just like you can't buy a cpu, break it, and blame the company.

so, Intel can have the best hoob'a'whats'it but if you break it, that is your fault not Intels. Just like AMD can have the worst hibbie'snits'its, you break it it's your own fault.

You should know the circumstances also and the requirements to make sure it doesn't break. Hence; responsibilty.

Of course that is only my opinion of how i view it. i'm also bored too so thats why i'm ranting ... just writing in general not really just at you. so ya.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
 
How long has the P4 line been out? How many incidents of
thermal failure? This is the first I have heard about. Now compare to the Athlon line. Without a doubt, the Intel thermal solution is far superior to the AMD solution.
Click to expand...
yep, this is so true.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
 
But now you can no longer say to people that P4s are invincible compared to AMD. The fact one CPU out there was vulnerable over millions, it doesn't matter the ratio, but just that fact is enough to know a P4 is not invulerable. So now, not only AMD has thermal protection (you can't claim they burn anymore without some links to recent new technology failure), but a P4 failed, so now most of your usual arguments to troll are useless. Face it Melty, Intel isn't invincible and neither a god.


--
I can't beleive Dungeon Siege has a pitchfork weapon called "Hoe"! :lol: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 05/24/02 09:53 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
But now you can no longer say to people that P4s are invincible compared to AMD. The fact one CPU out there was vulnerable over millions, it doesn't matter the ratio, but just that fact is enough to know a P4 is not invulerable. So now, not only AMD has thermal protection (you can't claim they burn anymore without some links to recent new technology failure), but a P4 failed, so now most of your usual arguments to troll are useless. Face it Melty, Intel isn't invincible and neither a god.
Click to expand...
you do not know the whole story behind that burnt P4, you don't even know what they did to it. to try and take that as an example(for your cause), or to even use it as some way to shift all focus off AMD's lack of thermal protection and weak implementation is just plain stupid, imho.

ps, I really feel sorry for you if you were under the impression that Intel was invincible and a god.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
 
I said you were. Anyone here can easily agree, you venerate Intel as your own mother, Melty.
Btw, you also like to link to burnt CPUs, even when they have no idea why. Remember your so-called House of Macabre?

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I can't beleive Dungeon Siege has a pitchfork weapon called "Hoe"! :lol:
 
I have noticed (how could anyone not notice?) that a lot of these forums descend into the depths of this thermal protection thing. 2 points:

A) I would rather my pc crash when my HSF FAN starts to die, rather than just going slower (yes I know this point has been raised before) so I can tell something is wrong with the hardware, and not just I need to Defrag, or there's some horrible virus floating around in my memory slowing everything down, or whatever.

B) If the heat sink falls off, assuming a tower case, a bloody huge lump of metal would probably collide with the graphics card/mobo/RAM/whatever, and either put dents in it, or just simply short things out... So either way, you're lucky if your system still works afterwards.

P.S. Melty - go on, make a video showing you removing your heatsink while running Quake like in Tom's video, to show your boundless faith in the P4 thermal protection... :smile:

<font color=blue><i>Your</i> PC may be quieter, but <i>my</i> PC makes a better hairdryer!</font color=blue>
 
A) I would rather my pc crash when my HSF FAN starts to die, rather than just going slower (yes I know this point has been raised before) so I can tell something is wrong with the hardware, and not just I need to Defrag, or there's some horrible virus floating around in my memory slowing everything down, or whatever.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, and we are a minority unfortunatly.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
 
Agreed anytime. Only until the P4 actually adds a warning alarm, that I would consider its thermal protection to be the best.

--
I can't beleive Dungeon Siege has a pitchfork weapon called "Hoe"! :lol:
 
You mean like a fan monitor that comes free with most mobos or by using motherboard monitor? Sheesh - that was tough. What's your next challenge? :smile:

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
 
indeed

that comment was brought up my MOI ages ago too.
in the event of a HSF falling off you also have to consider the sizable lump of aluminium/copper obeying the laws of gravity.

and instant shutoff <font color=red>IS</font color=red> the safest thermal protection. course its less sophisticated than throttling but i prefer it that way.

and my final point about this whole thread is:
nomatter how failsafe a device some moron will always be able to toast/burn/break or melt it!

<font color=red>MABACITISS</font color=red>: Movement Against Boasting About CPU Idle Temps & Idle System Stability!
 
Just notice this thread,kinda look like my wife's P4 ,but mine was only black in the back there was no physical damage that I can see.

And on the mobo there is no damage at all but it wont boot whit the new CPU(tryed 2 of them ) so I fugure that it's dead as well.


<font color=red>Who's on first,well I don't know but my gilrfriend's beaver's on third 😱
 
lol
I remember that last time around, too. Eden and AMD_Man were talking about coding something that could warn you when temps got to a certain limit or a fan stopped. They were rather shocked when I said they'd been beaten to it :tongue:

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 
Eden, his point in this post, which is quite true, is that the P4 thermal protection is better than the Athlon XP protection. Even if the Athlon solution was on every motherboard, the P4 is still a better solution.

Now, does that make the Athlon a poor quality chip? No. It simply means it lacks a feature that the P4 has.

I'm as sick of Melty's flaming posts as much as anyone, but attacking him when he actualy has a point won't solve anything.

"Search your feelings you know it to be true, I am your... twin sister" - Darth Vader
 
P.S. Melty - go on, make a video showing you removing your heatsink while running Quake like in Tom's video, to show your boundless faith in the P4 thermal protection...
Click to expand...
Well that would require Meltdown to possess a P4, which he doesn't. (although he loves to tell people how great it is, in his "humble opinion")

Mmmm... <font color=red>Red Hot</font color=red>
 
hey, has anyone noticed that whenever a really clever (or harsh) come-back is directed toward 'Melty' he ducks? just buggers off... It's quite amusing watching him run away from the masses...hehe

"The answer to life's problems aren't at the bottom of a beer bottle, they're on TV."
 
But how can you prove it's better, really?
Both react on time, both use a sensor method. What I said, IMO is that AXP's protection is currently better as it TELLS you when something is wrong. Until the Pentium 4 uses a warn temp, which I wonder why the hell isn't anyone so smart enough to figure it's been here on every new mobo BIOS, AND NOT by a program or by programming one..., until it has one, AXP's thermal protection remains the best.

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I can't beleive Dungeon Siege has a pitchfork weapon called "Hoe"! :lol:
 
Technically speaking, even if P4's is on CPU, it still has to communicate with the board to react, so technically both are almost similar.

--
I can't beleive Dungeon Siege has a pitchfork weapon called "Hoe"! :lol:
 
The P4s is completely in the processor, the Athlon XPs is completely on the motherboard.


EDIT:
<A HREF="http://www.intel.com/design/pentium4/datashts/29864303.pdf" target="_new">Northwood's datasheet</A> (below from page 68)

By using a factory-tuned, precision
on-die thermal sensor, and a fast acting thermal control circuit (TCC), the processor,
without the aid ofa ny additional software or hardware, can keep the processor’s die
temperature within factory specifications under nearly all conditions.
Click to expand...


I can't find a similar white paper for the XP, if anyone knows where it would be, please let me know.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FatBurger on 05/28/02 02:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
AXP's protection is below that of either the P3 or P4. Why?

The AXP has a thermal sensor - however all it can do is report temperature to a properly equipped motherboard. That motherboard must be booted (bios loaded) in order to read and action upon that sensor.

The P3 and P4 have an onboard diode that will cut power or throttle (respectively) the cpu to prevent overheat regardless of motherboard state. The cpu assumes the motherboard is dumb and does it for you.

The result is that a failure during operation for P3 and AXP is identical, the PC will crash/shut down. The P4 will, in most cases, continue but significantly throttled.

The big difference is that if the system is recycled after a heatsink comes loose, or if the heatsink is improperly mounted in the first place - the AXP is toast. The P3 and P4 should protect themselves.

So even though the XP 'told you' something was wrong by shutting down, if that something was the heatsink coming loose due to a clip breaking or something then recycling the power will toast it. Think about it - it doesn't say 'I shut down because of overheat', it just shuts down. Most people reaction would be the PC had crashed in a strange way, restart it. Poof.....

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
 
The big difference is that if the system is recycled after a heatsink comes loose, or if the heatsink is improperly mounted in the first place - the AXP is toast. The P3 and P4 should protect themselves.

So even though the XP 'told you' something was wrong by shutting down, if that something was the heatsink coming loose due to a clip breaking or something then recycling the power will toast it. Think about it - it doesn't say 'I shut down because of overheat', it just shuts down. Most people reaction would be the PC had crashed in a strange way, restart it. Poof.....
Click to expand...


Amd's designed thermal control protects even in the event of a hsf removal, as long as the motherboard supports it.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
 
I think he means that if the heatsink fell off, unless you opened your case and looked inside, you would turn the computer on again, therefore frying the Athlon. Unless someone makes a system that'll keep it from frying when it's first turned on, but I'd imagine that would be difficult.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 
Hey Fatburger, you said the thermal protection was on the mobo only... here are a few sources after 30 seconds on google.


lost circuits.com: "AMD has finally integrated the thermal diode into the core of their latest spawn, the Athlon MP, based on the Palomino core."

digit-life.com : "Besides, the Athlon XP has quite a useless thermal diode because the most of latest Socket A mainboards do not support it" (so that would be the mobo makers fault)

ZD Net: "The Athlon XP series have an enhanced hardware pre-fetch cache, an on-die thermal control diode and an extended version of the 3DNow!"

slcentral.com "The Palomino core has a thermal diode as well, so future Athlons shouldn't have the same growing pains that the Thunderbird."

There are a few sources for you. I suspect its the mobo makers who are not properly implementing the on-die thermal diode. Any thoughts?


Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
 
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