Question Packet Loss issues due to hardware?

[ymi04060513]

Hi,

I'm gonna put this into systems because I'm not sure what this topic would be under other than, generally, systems.

So, I've really never had any issues with internet lag, I have a download speed of ~500-700mbps all the time, and I'm connected via ethernet. Right now, I'm playing a game called Rust on a big server, I've played on these types of servers for thousands of hours and never had issues with PING before. I run at 100+ fps all the time, with really no dips, so I am certain it is not FPS lag. What happens, is every 5 or so minutes, sometimes shorter intervals, or longer, is that I disconnect completely, I stop being able to hear the people I'm talking to on discord and I completely freeze in game, my in-game ping counter jumps to upwards of 2000 usually, and I freeze for about 10 seconds.

When I run speedtests, I get my usually 500-700 speed at the very beginning, and slowly I just creep down towards the 500s, then the 400s, and then the 300s, and 200s. And ill start the test with ~700 MBPS and finish with somewhere in the 100s/low 200s.

https://ibb.co/zH9JrZK

^ For example, this is what one of my sppedtest looks like, I sit at 40mbps upload speed, but the graph represents how my download speed changes over the course of the test, sometimes its parabolic in nature, other times its just straight down at a constant loss.

I downloaded and ran PingPlotter, and let it run for about 2 hours and these were the results for the last hour.

https://ibb.co/CHWj4xj

Using there website under the 'reading results,' or similarly named tab, it looks like this is not a problem outside of my Local Network but inside, and likely a hardware issue. I run fantastic latency and [lack thereof] packet loss, until I get hit with this massive red block of packet loss, if anyone is familiar with this, what can I do?

(Heres another, with the destination back to pingplotter, set to 2.5sec intervals)
https://ibb.co/BVvJRVg

 

[ymi04060513]

Hi,

I'm gonna put this into systems because I'm not sure what this topic would be under other than, generally, systems.

So, I've really never had any issues with internet lag, I have a download speed of ~500-700mbps all the time, and I'm connected via ethernet. Right now, I'm playing a game called Rust on a big server, I've played on these types of servers for thousands of hours and never had issues with PING before. I run at 100+ fps all the time, with really no dips, so I am certain it is not FPS lag. What happens, is every 5 or so minutes, sometimes shorter intervals, or longer, is that I disconnect completely, I stop being able to hear the people I'm talking to on discord and I completely freeze in game, my in-game ping counter jumps to upwards of 2000 usually, and I freeze for about 10 seconds.

When I run speedtests, I get my usually 500-700 speed at the very beginning, and slowly I just creep down towards the 500s, then the 400s, and then the 300s, and 200s. And ill start the test with ~700 MBPS and finish with somewhere in the 100s/low 200s.

https://ibb.co/zH9JrZK

^ For example, this is what one of my sppedtest looks like, I sit at 40mbps upload speed, but the graph represents how my download speed changes over the course of the test, sometimes its parabolic in nature, other times its just straight down at a constant loss.

I downloaded and ran PingPlotter, and let it run for about 2 hours and these were the results for the last hour.

https://ibb.co/CHWj4xj

Using there website under the 'reading results,' or similarly named tab, it looks like this is not a problem outside of my Local Network but inside, and likely a hardware issue. I run fantastic latency and [lack thereof] packet loss, until I get hit with this massive red block of packet loss, if anyone is familiar with this, what can I do?

(Heres another, with the destination back to pingplotter, set to 2.5sec intervals)
https://ibb.co/BVvJRVg

If more tests with different timings or destination are required I'm more than happy to help. I'm just trying to determine what the best remedy is here.

 

[General_Cool]

Losing internet connection during large downloads, need help!

Hey guys! For a while I have been getting an odd problem, when I am downloading a large file, usually a steam game, the internet connection drops across my whole house, and then comes back up within a minute or two. This is very annoying when i am trying to download a game and do something...

forums.tomshardware.com

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/internet-stops-working-during-heavy-downloads.2676713/

If none of that works...
Make sure you're on the 5GHz band and your wifi isn't being overloaded.
If that also doesn't help...
I've encountered this same issue before where my downloads will stop completely once I hit about 8MB/s. Set a 3MB/s cap and try again. It could be that some component in the chain is not enjoying Rust using that much bandwidth, so limiting it could help. It would only slow it down slightly too depending on how much you limit it.

 

[ymi04060513]

Losing internet connection during large downloads, need help!

Hey guys! For a while I have been getting an odd problem, when I am downloading a large file, usually a steam game, the internet connection drops across my whole house, and then comes back up within a minute or two. This is very annoying when i am trying to download a game and do something...

forums.tomshardware.com

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/internet-stops-working-during-heavy-downloads.2676713/

If none of that works...
Make sure you're on the 5GHz band and your wifi isn't being overloaded.
If that also doesn't help...
I've encountered this same issue before where my downloads will stop completely once I hit about 8MB/s. Set a 3MB/s cap and try again. It could be that some component in the chain is not enjoying Rust using that much bandwidth, so limiting it could help. It would only slow it down slightly too depending on how much you limit it.

Im not downloading anything during this time. I sent the pictures which show judt how my internet is running perfectly and then i get these random disconnect moments, unrelated to anything happening on my network, so i believe it has nothing to do with downloading.

 

[General_Cool]

Im not downloading anything during this time. I sent the pictures which show judt how my internet is running perfectly and then i get these random disconnect moments, unrelated to anything happening on my network, so i believe it has nothing to do with downloading.

When you're playing the game, you are in fact downloading and uploading data to the Rust servers so your computer can communicate what is going on...this is how multiplayer gaming works.

 

[ymi04060513]

When you're playing the game, you are in fact downloading and uploading data to the Rust servers so your computer can communicate what is going on...this is how multiplayer gaming works.

Yes, but then i got off both games, and then just left my pc open running Ping Plotter with not a single other tab open.

 

[General_Cool]

All of the quick fixes I'm going to say are basic. Restarting your router, resetting it to factory settings, trying a different ethernet cable, different ethernet port, different ethernet card altogether, try playing it on a different computer on the same wifi, etc. Whenever I experience the same issue it goes away after a few days. Restarting the router occasionally helps. My routers and extenders are ancient at this point and I've always chalked it up to my fault for being a cheapskate and not upgrading. With that being said, here's the not so nice part...

How old is your router? Older routers experience packet loss when their power supplies begin failing. The power supplies deliver power unevenly, which means shorter packets are able to be passed along just fine while longer ones get cut mid transfer. This could be why you're only seeing it after a couple minutes, since the router (since at the end of the day, is also a computer) will ramp up to handle more packets during gaming sessions, leading to needing more power. Thus, it gets to a certain point where the power supply cannot deliver enough power steadily and packets get lost, leading to the servers terminating your connection.

You could also try contacting your ISP. Packet loss could be on their side due to them routing your traffic incorrectly and may be fixable. Could also be that the lines/antenna at your house causing the problem. Be wary though this is a long and drawn out process, especially if you are gifted an especially intelligent customer support representative (sarcasm).

 

[ymi04060513]

All of the quick fixes I'm going to say are basic. Restarting your router, resetting it to factory settings, trying a different ethernet cable, different ethernet port, different ethernet card altogether, try playing it on a different computer on the same wifi, etc. Whenever I experience the same issue it goes away after a few days. Restarting the router occasionally helps. My routers and extenders are ancient at this point and I've always chalked it up to my fault for being a cheapskate and not upgrading. With that being said, here's the not so nice part...

How old is your router? Older routers experience packet loss when their power supplies begin failing. The power supplies deliver power unevenly, which means shorter packets are able to be passed along just fine while longer ones get cut mid transfer. This could be why you're only seeing it after a couple minutes, since the router (since at the end of the day, is also a computer) will ramp up to handle more packets during gaming sessions, leading to needing more power. Thus, it gets to a certain point where the power supply cannot deliver enough power steadily and packets get lost, leading to the servers terminating your connection.

You could also try contacting your ISP. Packet loss could be on their side due to them routing your traffic incorrectly and may be fixable. Could also be that the lines/antenna at your house causing the problem. Be wary though this is a long and drawn out process, especially if you are gifted an especially intelligent customer support representative (sarcasm).

I think I have the:

GS724Tv3 — 24-Port Gigabit Ethernet Smart Switch with 2 SFP Ports

It seems to be originally created in '04 but I don't know when my specific router was purchased/made. I've restarted my router/modem, but how do I set something like my router back to its original settings? What I'm going to do tomorrow, because I'm going to bed soon, is go onto my brothers computer who uses a different cable and port and see if his pingplotter is also saying the same thing as mine. If not fantastic, I'll switch out the wires, if so then maybe it is the router. I will get back to you in the morning, thanks a bunch for your help. Let's just jump the gun here a little bit and say that my brother's PC has similar results to mine (which I readily anticipate); what would I do?

https://ibb.co/mDFyWRr

Heres my pingplotter over the last couple of hours. The spikes seem to be consistently random.

P.S. - I want to talk to my ISP like I want a hole in my head, I live in a notoriously terrible area for ISP Customer Support.

 

[General_Cool]

GS724Tv3

This is a modem, not a router. It could be the cause of the problem though for the exact same reason as the router. The router, as the name suggests, routes traffic in the house between each other and to the modem. The modem translates this language into a language the ISP understands (very simplified explanation). Think of it as an Italian guy trying to tell a bunch of Russian guys to do something, you need a translator for the language barrier, and then you need a person to take charge and give everyone individual orders.

Before tearing things apart, I'd suggest visiting https://www.netgear.com/support/product/gs724tv3 and downloading the latest firmware. They have instructions on how to access the modem to do this update. It seems like in 2017 from a very very brief search they issued a firmware update related to packet loss...

how do I set something like my router back to its original settings?

Check out your IPv4 default gateway, you can find it in (assuming you're on Windows 11) Settings>Network and Internet>Advanced Network Settings>Hardware and connection properties. Copy and paste the IPv4 gateway into any browser of your choice (Chrome, Opera, etc.) and hit enter (do not search it on Google, copy paste it in the URL bar). After that, its up to you to find the specific brand and model of that router and find the manual for it which will explain how it can be reset.

what would I do?

If after a hard reset, factory default, and firmware update on the router the issue is still not resolved, get a new router. You can go cheap if its just for trouble shooting, and I'd recommend ordering from somewhere that does free returns (Amazon and Walmart come to mind if accessible to you). If the router is not the problem, buy a cheap modem to test with and swap out your old modem (assuming you updated it's firmware already and that didn't fix the issue).

I want to talk to my ISP like I want a hole in my head, I live in a notoriously terrible area for ISP Customer Support.

Don't we all...

 

[ymi04060513]

This is a modem, not a router. It could be the cause of the problem though for the exact same reason as the router. The router, as the name suggests, routes traffic in the house between each other and to the modem. The modem translates this language into a language the ISP understands (very simplified explanation). Think of it as an Italian guy trying to tell a bunch of Russian guys to do something, you need a translator for the language barrier, and then you need a person to take charge and give everyone individual orders.

Before tearing things apart, I'd suggest visiting https://www.netgear.com/support/product/gs724tv3 and downloading the latest firmware. They have instructions on how to access the modem to do this update. It seems like in 2017 from a very very brief search they issued a firmware update related to packet loss...

Check out your IPv4 default gateway, you can find it in (assuming you're on Windows 11) Settings>Network and Internet>Advanced Network Settings>Hardware and connection properties. Copy and paste the IPv4 gateway into any browser of your choice (Chrome, Opera, etc.) and hit enter (do not search it on Google, copy paste it in the URL bar). After that, its up to you to find the specific brand and model of that router and find the manual for it which will explain how it can be reset.

If after a hard reset, factory default, and firmware update on the router the issue is still not resolved, get a new router. You can go cheap if its just for trouble shooting, and I'd recommend ordering from somewhere that does free returns (Amazon and Walmart come to mind if accessible to you). If the router is not the problem, buy a cheap modem to test with and swap out your old modem (assuming you updated it's firmware already and that didn't fix the issue).

Don't we all...

Okay understood, looking down on my shelf here, it looks like the netgear one we discussed earlier is my modem, and i have a google hub white circle box thing as my router, and then it looks like it feeds into this technicolor (literally called technicolor, its a white recntagular box) with the model number tc4400-am.

https://ibb.co/G5djPw4

I dont know if you can see it, but after looking at this stuff, my google wifi hub is now showing a red bar, and my technicolor tc4400am is displaying the LED for link to be off, signifying that its not connected to ethernet. However, now 2 minutes later, they are both online again, the link on my technicolor is blinking showing that its receiving and sending ethernet connection, and my google wifi hub has its classic solid white line.

 

[ymi04060513]

Okay understood, looking down on my shelf here, it looks like the netgear one we discussed earlier is my modem, and i have a google hub white circle box thing as my router, and then it looks like it feeds into this technicolor (literally called technicolor, its a white recntagular box) with the model number tc4400-am.

https://ibb.co/G5djPw4

I dont know if you can see it, but after looking at this stuff, my google wifi hub is now showing a red bar, and my technicolor tc4400am is displaying the LED for link to be off, signifying that its not connected to ethernet. However, now 2 minutes later, they are both online again, the link on my technicolor is blinking showing that its receiving and sending ethernet connection, and my google wifi hub has its classic solid white line.

My google wifi is the nest one as well, i dont think i articulated that before, theyre spread all throughout the house.

 

[General_Cool]

Okay understood, looking down on my shelf here, it looks like the netgear one we discussed earlier is my modem, and i have a google hub white circle box thing as my router, and then it looks like it feeds into this technicolor (literally called technicolor, its a white recntagular box) with the model number tc4400-am.

https://ibb.co/G5djPw4

I dont know if you can see it, but after looking at this stuff, my google wifi hub is now showing a red bar, and my technicolor tc4400am is displaying the LED for link to be off, signifying that its not connected to ethernet. However, now 2 minutes later, they are both online again, the link on my technicolor is blinking showing that its receiving and sending ethernet connection, and my google wifi hub has its classic solid white line.

This is why I shouldn't be writing posts at 2am...
The GS724Tv3 is a switch, not a modem; my mistake. The way networks are set up is modem>router>switch, therefore your system set up is TC4400-AM>Google Nest>GS724Tv3. The switch's job is to take in a bunch of ethernet connections and manage the MAC addresses of all the connected devices to send back to the router neatly. In your case, it sounds like you have ethernet cables running inside your walls, which are connected to this switch, which is then connected to a main router, with a bunch of extenders throughout the house.

If its not too much of a hassle, try moving your PC into the room you have your main router in and plug directly into the router (not the modem!) and try PingPlotter again to see if the problem is downstream from the switch or upstream. Don't unplug your switch or modem.

 

[ymi04060513]

This is why I shouldn't be writing posts at 2am...
The GS724Tv3 is a switch, not a modem; my mistake. The way networks are set up is modem>router>switch, therefore your system set up is TC4400-AM>Google Nest>GS724Tv3. The switch's job is to take in a bunch of ethernet connections and manage the MAC addresses of all the connected devices to send back to the router neatly. In your case, it sounds like you have ethernet cables running inside your walls, which are connected to this switch, which is then connected to a main router, with a bunch of extenders throughout the house.

If its not too much of a hassle, try moving your PC into the room you have your main router in and plug directly into the router (not the modem!) and try PingPlotter again to see if the problem is downstream from the switch or upstream. Don't unplug your switch or modem.

I will try this after, i went into my brothers room after moving around a bunch of wires and he had internet and i didnt, i have just moved my pc in here and am going to run pingplotter now, im still experiencing massive amounts of packet loss over here, however when i installed and ran pingplotter on his pc and let it ran for 10 or 15 minutes, there seemed to be no packet loss issues over here, so it seems like most likely it is not a outside/inside of network issue, but a my PC specifically issue.

The only things it could be are my pc or my specific ethernet wires, and if pingplotter is running great on his pc in his room, and mine is still running atrociously, it seemes to be a my PC thing. Now, thats good and bad right? We now know what it is, which is good, but whats bad is how do we fix it?...

 

[General_Cool]

I will try this after, i went into my brothers room after moving around a bunch of wires and he had internet and i didnt, i have just moved my pc in here and am going to run pingplotter now, im still experiencing massive amounts of packet loss over here, however when i installed and ran pingplotter on his pc and let it ran for 10 or 15 minutes, there seemed to be no packet loss issues over here, so it seems like most likely it is not a outside/inside of network issue, but a my PC specifically issue.

The only things it could be are my pc or my specific ethernet wires, and if pingplotter is running great on his pc in his room, and mine is still running atrociously, it seemes to be a my PC thing. Now, thats good and bad right? We now know what it is, which is good, but whats bad is how do we fix it?...

Good to hear, its most likely your cable then. Swap the cables out (if you can) and try again. If that's not it, you can get a PCIE ethernet card on Amazon for 10 bucks and throw it in your PC to see if that solves the problem.

 

[ymi04060513]

Good to hear, its most likely your cable then. Swap the cables out (if you can) and try again. If that's not it, you can get a PCIE ethernet card on Amazon for 10 bucks and throw it in your PC to see if that solves the problem.

My cable? I am in my brothers bedroom using his cable, his pc was perfect on pingplotter and mine was still experiencing massive amounts of packet loss... is there a reason as to why this could happen or do I need to buy and entirely new part?

 

[General_Cool]

My cable? I am in my brothers bedroom using his cable, his pc was perfect on pingplotter and mine was still experiencing massive amounts of packet loss... is there a reason as to why this could happen or do I need to buy and entirely new part?

Ah, my mistake, I had assumed you brought your ethernet cable with you. Its very strange for the ethernet controller on your board to be causing the issues unless its absolutely ancient...how old is your motherboard?

 

[ymi04060513]

Ah, my mistake, I had assumed you brought your ethernet cable with you. Its very strange for the ethernet controller on your board to be causing the issues unless its absolutely ancient...how old is your motherboard?

Not too old at all, I have a very fast PC, my MOBO is the MSI Tomahawk B450

 

[General_Cool]

Not too old at all, I have a very fast PC, my MOBO is the MSI Tomahawk B450

I don't want to tell you to go buy a PC component you don't need if you can't return it, but if you have access to Amazon, I'd recommend purchasing a network card (ex. https://a.co/d/ecGiecN) to test with and see if the issue resolves itself, since Amazon has a great return policy. I don't think this is the issue though and its more likely software related. If you tried the software fixes I mentioned earlier and they didn't work you could always try a fresh Windows install.

In the meantime, open your Windows command prompt and type "ping google.com -n 100" (or if you want it to run longer, change the 100 to 1000) and report back with the results (there is no private info shown when doing this). You can also do "tracert 8.8.8.8" (Google's DNS server) and observe the results (don't post this, it shows IP info about your location).

 

[ymi04060513]

I don't want to tell you to go buy a PC component you don't need if you can't return it, but if you have access to Amazon, I'd recommend purchasing a network card (ex. https://a.co/d/ecGiecN) to test with and see if the issue resolves itself, since Amazon has a great return policy. I don't think this is the issue though and its more likely software related. If you tried the software fixes I mentioned earlier and they didn't work you could always try a fresh Windows install.

In the meantime, open your Windows command prompt and type "ping google.com -n 100" (or if you want it to run longer, change the 100 to 1000) and report back with the results (there is no private info shown when doing this). You can also do "tracert 8.8.8.8" (Google's DNS server) and observe the results (don't post this, it shows IP info about your location).

understood, I will run the CMD prompt and let you know my results. Instead of buying a whole new network card, could I just take the open off of my brothers PC and see if that works with mine? He has the MSI B450 Tomahawk Pro MOBO, so they should be pretty similar, not certain though.

https://ibb.co/7VYMgKD

[/URL]

Here are the test results. I only had 1 packet loss moment during its duration...

 

[ymi04060513]

understood, I will run the CMD prompt and let you know my results. Instead of buying a whole new network card, could I just take the open off of my brothers PC and see if that works with mine? He has the MSI B450 Tomahawk Pro MOBO, so they should be pretty similar, not certain though.

I just found a thread saying to go to my MOBO's website and download a new Realtek driver for my ethernet controller, so I just downloaded that, restarted my PC, and am running ping plotter now to see if it's any better.

EDIT: It did not help; still getting 50% Packet Loss on hop 1. I really don't know what the issue is. This is so infuriating.

 

[ymi04060513]

I just found a thread saying to go to my MOBO's website and download a new Realtek driver for my ethernet controller, so I just downloaded that, restarted my PC, and am running ping plotter now to see if it's any better.

EDIT: It did not help; still getting 50% Packet Loss on hop 1. I really don't know what the issue is. This is so infuriating.

Is there a way for me to troubleshoot my NIC, and then determine i have to get a new one and order that up, or something else...

 

[bill001g]

Most likely your problem is you are getting intermittent loss on your internet connection.

The lose ping plotter show to your router a testing issue. You can't be getting 66% loss to the router but then only .5% to the end location. Many routers only accept ping at a certain rate and if you try to do more they are ignored. This is to protect the cpu against denial of service attacks.

I would use a normal ping command to the router IP address. Let it run constantly in the background while you run the game. When the game detects errors see if the ping also show issues.

If it does not then it is not likely a network issue with your pc. You can also let a ping run to the IP in hop 2 and to say 8.8.8.8.

If you see loss to hop 2 then there is likely some random loss in your internet connection.

 

[ymi04060513]

Most likely your problem is you are getting intermittent loss on your internet connection.

The lose ping plotter show to your router a testing issue. You can't be getting 66% loss to the router but then only .5% to the end location. Many routers only accept ping at a certain rate and if you try to do more they are ignored. This is to protect the cpu against denial of service attacks.

I would use a normal ping command to the router IP address. Let it run constantly in the background while you run the game. When the game detects errors see if the ping also show issues.

If it does not then it is not likely a network issue with your pc. You can also let a ping run to the IP in hop 2 and to say 8.8.8.8.

If you see loss to hop 2 then there is likely some random loss in your internet connection.

so just to clarify, you want me to run PingPlotter back into my IP address while I game, correct? And if my ping plotter does continue to show issues, then what..?

I could have done this wrong, but I just typed ipconfig /all, then got my IP address, and typed that directly into the pingplotter IP address bar, but this is only 1 hop...

 

[ymi04060513]

so just to clarify, you want me to run PingPlotter back into my IP address while I game, correct? And if my ping plotter does continue to show issues, then what..?

I could have done this wrong, but I just typed ipconfig /all, then got my IP address, and typed that directly into the pingplotter IP address bar, but this is only 1 hop...

Im gonna go ahead and say with close to 100% certainty that it is my computer specifically, and not my network, i havr both me and my brothers computers right next to eachother, with very similiar specs, and i plug in the ethernet to mine, and im lagging, with 70% PL on the first hop, and this is over about 30 mins with many desyncs. Then ill switch to my brothers computer, and run it for 30 mins, and he gets ~0.3% PL, with no lag whatsoever, on the same cord, the same monitor, the same everything... so what does this mean for me, again, is this a bad NIC card? Thats really all it could be right? I didnt change anything software wise around when the lag started.

 

[COLGeek]

As previously discussed, this may simply be your on-board network adapter. Replacing it is easy and inexpensive. Be sure to disable the on-board when you install the new adapter.

I keep an Intel PCIe network adapter for just these sorts of issues in my parts bin.