Paul ryan's new budget proposal

[riser]

Wow John, I can't believe you actually believe what you're saying.

I used to travel heavily on airlines and I can assure you that 9/11 had a significant impact on their business model.

 

[johnsonma]

You're brainwashed dude.

How you can say near full employment, 3-7% growth (moderate growth), gas at under $2.00/gal. was "not good" under Bush is delusional.

Are you off your meds?

"That was the real crime against us, making us fear them."

Oh my god! Are you a truther? Not even the Crazy Beck is a truther. I think you need one of reynod foil lined armadillo hats.

The employment and growth were facades! How can you not understand that it was only temporary and unsustainable, and that it masked the true problems our economy was facing? It only lead to us shooting ourselves in the foot later on, yet you think that it proves that Bush was somehow a great president in regards to the economy? On top of that you think I'm brainwashed? REALLY?!?!?

I'm not a truther, I meant that the fact that we fear Al Qaeda is truly sad, the greatest country on earth and people are shaking in their boots at the sound of their name, that's the real crime, fearing a bunch of backwater terrorists. I will take one of those foil hats though, wouldn't want those pesky psychics reading my mind.

 

[johnsonma]

Wow John, I can't believe you actually believe what you're saying.

I used to travel heavily on airlines and I can assure you that 9/11 had a significant impact on their business model.

I will admit that it hurt them some because of decreased travel, but they were already in an unsustainable situation with their business structure, too much competition, something had to give with or without the terrorist attacks. I can't believe that you do not understand this riser, I thought you were more inclined toward business and would understand the underlying factors within the industry.

 

[riser]

Airline travel decreased heavily for at least two years after 9/11. I can't remember how many half-full flights I was on. Flights started getting stupid cheap just to fill them. They have to operate an almost full flight to even make a profit.

Business travel is probably 85-90% of all travel. With the additional screening and additional costs of renovating all their airports, reinforcing all their aircraft and all that additional burden hurt them significantly.

 

[riser]

Wow, bravo. One of the most solid responses I've seen from anyone.

 

[johnsonma]

Moderate growth and near full employment are not facades. Their is no such thing as sustainable growth in economics. You always upturns and downturns, it's a cycle. If the free market is left alone, these ups and downs are usually not severe. In the case of the housing bubble situation; it was government meddling in the free market that was the major cause of that. Forcing banks to loan money to people who had no hope of paying it back.

The great depression proves you wrong in that the free market by itself works, it can be taken advantage of, that's why there are regulations to protect it and minimize the damage from natural cycles. Growth may not be sustainable forever but it is sustainable over a period of time during which our economy grows more than it shrinks in the downturns, thus netting us a positive increase in net growth and thus having sustainable growth. The housing bubble covered up a downturn from the recession that was beginning in 2000-2001 (the housing bubble started before that but it really started picking up then), before the terrorist attacks we had 3 straight quarters of the GDP shrinking. The intervention of the housing bubble helped mask the natural cycle.

They did not force banks to loan money to people, you must not understand how the mortgage system works. The mortgages originate at the banks, they however cannot afford to have so much money tied up in long term investments so they sell it to GSE's. These GSE's should never have bought the hopeless loans that the banks had started giving out. However, if it was not for the GSE's no one but the rich would ever be able to buy a house, so if you don't want government meddling, then forget about owning your own house, and the whole American dream.

In the end the GSE's should have been regulated more to prevent them from making such bone headed moves.

Can you elaborate on the "true problems of our economy" that were masked please?

I am not arguing that Bush was some great President, at all. I have major problems with Bush. No fanboy by any means. But I'm not going to lie either and say that during his administration we were constantly on the verge of a recession or depression like was touted daily in the MSM and The Daily Show.

You are believing the media narrative which is false, as in not true.

The media narrative is always false in your opinion.

The economic collaspe was prefaced by the financial collapse of the housing bubble. Bush warned Congress on at least 12 different occasions to get Fannie & Freddy under control and was told to stuff it by Barney Frank who is chairman of the house banking committee in charge of Fannie & Freddy. In hindsight, I suppose he could have been more forceful in his warnings; perhaps taken the issue to the American people.

I wonder if Jews in France should be afraid of Al-Queda? Well, that doesn't really matter anymore for 1 rabbi and 3 little kids does it?

I wonder if this teacher in Yemen should be afraid of Al-Queda? http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/22/al-qaeda-says-it-killed-american-teacher-in-yemen/

Oh wait, it doesn't really matter if he's afraid anymore does it?

Way to go! Using the deaths of innocent people to try and prove a point. In the end if we are afraid of them then they won, when people are afraid they do not live happy lives, and that means that they have changed our way of life and our culture.

 

[johnsonma]

Wow, bravo. One of the most solid responses I've seen from anyone.

Your selling yourself short riser!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Theres small small kernals of truth in what youre saying, but theyre dwarfed by what OMG is saying, and it was played to the extreme, and still is by the MSM.
Certain new regulations could help, true.
Housing bubble, a huge crisis, something near the level of Obamacare, and if that should go wrong.....
People dying from murderers is important when you bring up 911, as they must be put to justice, or should we just ignore this?
I think you need to turn your focus a little, and allow for a better balance of ideas

 

[riser]

Your selling yourself short riser!

haha Maybe the response of the day then.

 

[johnsonma]

Really?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo125.html

http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2011/11/3971362/bloomberg-plain-and-simple-congress-caused-mortgage-crisis-not-bank

http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/18/fannie-freddie-regulation-oped-cx_yb_0718brook.html

Yes, really.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/11/dish-check-update-who-caused-the-financial-collapse.html

It really was a collection of stupidity all around, quite blaming it on the government alone, although they were partly responsible.

 

[johnsonma]

Stupidity all around. right. Not referring to yourself are you?

Can I please see your columns in respected publications john?

Can you elaborate more than just calling "it stupidity all around"? Anything at all?

Calling what really happened "stupid" is not a refutation.

It was a failure of all parties involved to see the ramifications of the process they had initiated. Increasing loans to those who could not afford it, partially because the government wanted them to loosen up a bit to prevent discrimination and partially because the banks would immediately sell it off to a GSE and not have to worry about it. Partially the GSE's fault for not seeing the trend of high risk loans building up to unsustainable levels and also a lack of oversight from congress, at least Bush did try to make it an issue.

Quit attacking me personally OMG and at least express some reasonable point. The comment was more of a broad statement about the link, I'm guessing that you didn't even bother looking at it.

 

[musical marv]

Back on topic. I just heard an interview with Rand Paul on his budget. I vote to immediately scrap Paul Ryan's budget and go with Rand Paul's.

read]http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/rand-pauls-balanced-budget-plan/

read how the religious leaders like Ryan's budget. They hate it completely. It is for the rich!

 

[riser]

I'm for it. I'm rich. I worked hard to get rich and now I can become even more prosperous and benefit the economy more. Poor people are there by choice based on their decisions and provide little economic stimulation.

 

[wanamingo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/henry-aaron-paul-ryan-medicare_n_1466826.html

Co-creator of the Ryan budget tells capital hill that is wont work.

 

[riser]

So when it was written up under those conditions it sounded good. The conditions have changed and it no longer sounds good. Fair argument to say it would no longer work.

 

[johnsonma]

Why then did Paul think it would work, and for that matter the entire republican party?

 

[johnsonma]

I would be interested in hearing other "experts" opinions rather just this one guy.

Just sayin'.

It did say there at the end that Ryan had his own expert as well, but didn't really quote anything she said other than she disagreed with the other guy.

 

[musical marv]

Providing for the Common Defense
Streamlining Other Government Agencies
Restraining the Growth of Government by Repealing the Health Care Law
Ending Corporate Welfare
Changing Washington’s Culture of Spending
Strengthening the Social Safety Net ......................................................................................................... 38
Repairing a Broken Medicaid System
Stopping the Abuse of Medicaid by Repealing the Health Care Law
Protecting Assistance for Those in Need
Preparing the Workforce for a 21st Century Economy
Fulfilling the Mission of Health and Retirement Security for All Americans .................................... 44
Saving Medicare
Stopping the Raid on Medicare by Repealing the Health Care Law
Advancing Social Security Reforms
Pro-Growth Tax Reform .............................................................................................................................. 50
Simplifying the Tax Code for Individuals
Stopping Job-Destroying Tax Hikes by Repealing the Health Care Law



Whats wrong with this?

Just fabrications that is what Ryan is about. Saving medicare a joke ! His budget will bring more of a deficit than anything not a savings at all.Repeal the health care law why because he wants to privatize it and seniors should start getting vouchers to pay for it.Ryan is a joke!

 

[riser]

Why then did Paul think it would work, and for that matter the entire republican party?

Because at the time it was written it may have worked. Since then with other laws being passed and information being released, the situation has changed and the idea is no longer feasible apparently. You write something up a year ago and expect it to be relevant today when no actions have been taken to move it forward? If Obamacare hadn't passed, maybe it would be relevant for example. The government is dynamic in that is it constantly changing and creating new laws which changes how things work.