PC build for Digital Art

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Dec 16, 2014
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My sister wants an iMac for Digital Art (Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel Painter, etc.) but she can only really afford the lowest end iMac (around $1300 AUD), & I'm not sure it will perform as well as she needs. I've been thinking about doing my first PC build anyway - so can I build her a better system for about the same price?
 
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CaedenV
yes and no.
Yes, you can absolutely build something better for less money. The issue however is one of experience and maintenance. For your first rig I would suggest a standard PC or a gaming rig. Production rigs are very different, and depend greatly on the specific software and workloads being used. Plus, if your sister is accustomed to an Apple environment, then Apple may be the way to go just because she knows how to use it.

The best tool is the one you know, not necessarily the one with the best stats.

Plus, if it was your rig for your use then that would be one thing. But it is a rig for someone else... I would want a bit more experience before trusting something I built was good enough for someone else to use reliably.
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yes and no.
Yes, you can absolutely build something better for less money. The issue however is one of experience and maintenance. For your first rig I would suggest a standard PC or a gaming rig. Production rigs are very different, and depend greatly on the specific software and workloads being used. Plus, if your sister is accustomed to an Apple environment, then Apple may be the way to go just because she knows how to use it.

The best tool is the one you know, not necessarily the one with the best stats.

Plus, if it was your rig for your use then that would be one thing. But it is a rig for someone else... I would want a bit more experience before trusting something I built was good enough for someone else to use reliably.
 
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Solution
PCPartPicker part list: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/MBrJRB
Price breakdown by merchant: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/MBrJRB/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($309.00 @ CPL Online)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($128.00 @ Centre Com)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($139.00 @ Centre Com)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($62.00 @ Centre Com)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X Video Card ($479.00 @ CPL Online)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($72.00 @ CPL Online)
Total: $1189.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-16 21:23 EST+1100

This might run you over budget with a few other things you need but you can also drop the ssd and add one later.
 
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True. She's not used to an Apple environment, though - she currently uses a Windows laptop that doesn't have the specs to support the software she needs w/o crashing every 15/30 minutes. I'm just worried that she'll spend all this money on a iMac and have the same (though obv not as severe) problems. The reveiws of the paticular iMac we were looking at said it sacrificed peformance for affordability, and that it wasn't much much powerful than a MacBook Air.

I'm definately concerned about doing a custom build for someone else w/ no expirience, but if she can only afford a mac that will still be cumbersome to work with, it might be worth the risk? Unless I'm wrong about the performance of the iMac, or there's a good pre-built PC for that price?

 
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PCPartPicker part list: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/GL4Fxr
Price breakdown by merchant: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/GL4Fxr/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($309.00 @ CPL Online)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($128.00 @ Centre Com)
Memory: G.Skill Trident X 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($215.00 @ CPL Online)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($62.00 @ Centre Com)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X Video Card ($479.00 @ CPL Online)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($72.00 @ CPL Online)
Total: $1265.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-16 21:31 EST+1100

Forgot the ram the first time lol you could make it cheaper with like a gtx 770 but I would prefer a better gpu and upgrade later myself.
 
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What do you consider a production rig? A workstation running a server motherboard, xeon, ecc ram?

A regular PC is more than capable of running the software listed without shelling out the money for an overpriced mac or a workstation that you won't fully use. A lot of the time you are better off going with a faster cpu than a slower higher core count xeon anyways depending on the software you are using.

 
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what is slow about a xeon? you know that xeon is the same thing as a i7 4770? so what is faster at multimedia? guess you could use a 4790k at stock but that is pretty pricey.

A FX cpu is probably a better choice over a i5 or maybe this stuff is not threaded for shit and a i3 will work... honestly I am about done with this forum

 
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Xeons come in various different specs. A 6 core e5 2620 will cost you about $410 and only runs at 2.1 ghz which is terrible for certain programs like autocad. To get similar speeds in an E5 you have to jump to $650 which is a lot more than a 4820k costs.

The E3 and 1155 i7's are more comparable in price but for the programs listed I'm not sure you would see any benefits in one or the other besides what you could get for cheaper.



My reply was more directed towards Caedan hence the quote. The build you put together seems great.

And if you couldn't tell I'm stuck with a 2620 at work for autocad that my 4770 runs circles around. 🙁
 
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I like simple definitions; a production rig is a rig in which you use it primarily for production, which translates to money on the table and food in one's mouth. It can be a craptastic old Pentium 4, or a brand new top of the line rendering farm... it really does not matter. What matters is that if there is a problem, then down time equates to loss of productivity and income. I build production rigs on a pretty regular basis. Sometimes they are simple office computers, other times they are for audio/video editing/rendering, typically I use normal off-the-shelf parts, but I have built 2 xeon based rigs for people when it is appropriate.

My point is not that you cannot save a lot of money building your own rig, or that it potentially would not be better. My point is that this is not the kind of project to take on as a first-time PC builder. Especially something going to family. The mac is not going to be fast, or particularly good in general, but it is an industry standard machine that she will be able to get lots of help with in forums relating to her field. Plus, if ANYTHING goes wrong with an Apple they have by far the best warranty and repair service around (absolutely get the extended Apple Care support). It is not so much about speed or wasting money, it is about community support and up-time that is not going to be able to be provided by a new PC builder.

Start building your own rig. Find what works and what doesn't. Build some game rigs for friends. Get some experience getting to know PC problems that crop up and how to fix them. Once you have some experience THEN go building production machines. But until then I would say to pass on it. If you are really against Apple in specific, then get a business class Dell. As crap as their consumer junk is, their business machines are pretty nice, have good support, and are not priced like an Apple.
 
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Good points, I guess it depends on his confidence on putting together the PC or if he knows someone who has more experience at it. I've been building my own for a while so hadn't thought of that side of things.
 
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Ok so I stil think a custom system will be a better choice, but I think everyone's right about not trying this one as a first timer. So I think I'll try to replicate this build, but have my computer store build it. Not all the options you picked here are available there, so I tried to substitue best I could here (let me know if I messed anything up!)
 
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Ya, I have been building PCs for almost 20 years now (damn I am starting to get old lol). I don't make a living at it, but I throw together ~2-3 every year for different people I know, and I always try to get them to build their own rigs whenever possible. It is lots of fun, and super exciting, but people's first build or two always fall a little short of expectations, and crap happens (DOA equipment or accidently breaking things) that you are not always prepared for your first time out. That is fine if it is your own build and you are dealing with your own consequences, and quite a different thing when it is for someone else and they have to deal with your inexperience. Once you get a build or two under your belt, THEN start building for other people. It is a fun and rewarding experience that I think more people should engage in, and it forces you to learn a lot... just not your first time out.

Cant wait, in a few years when my kiddos will be ready to put together their first rigs! That is going to be pretty fun.
 
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Don't get a Xeon chip. They need a c-series chipset to work anyways. Browse through the Intel Ark website to find chipsets and processors that work together. That is by far the most useful website ever made and really simplifies things when building non-normal builds.
Here is the list of processors compatible with h97: http://ark.intel.com/products/82010/Intel-DH82H97-PCH#@compatibility
Here is the list of chipsets compatible with xeon E3v3: http://ark.intel.com/products/80910/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1231-v3-8M-Cache-3_40-GHz#@compatibility Note that all of the compatible boards listed use a C-series chipset
Just because it fits does not mean that it will work.

Get an i3 or i5 (non-K) processor combined with a motherboard that employs solid-state capacitors (most do) and an H or B series chipset.

Pick up to 8GB of ram in a duel DDR configuration (ie 2 sticks) and be sure to install them in the right slots for your chosen motherboard for best performance. Speed, brand, CL timing etc. really don't matter at this level. Get something affordable and a known brand (Corsair, Kingston, G.Skill, Mushkin, etc). 16GB of RAM is typically not needed unless doing some pretty high-end production work, so just make sure the motherboard has an extra 2 slots to move up to 16GB if she grows into it, but save your money for now and get 8GB with the option for another 8GB later if needed.

Absolutely get an SSD of some sort. The Sammy 840Evo is a great choice and can be found dirt cheap these days. Make sure it is large enough for the OS, programs, render/cache folders, and active project files. Something in the 256-512GB range should be adequate. Storage and the CPU are the 2 most important things for most rendering and exporting projects. Having fast reliable storage to shove stuff from disk to RAM is a HUGE help, and this cannot be overstated enough.

Get rid of that gamer GPU. It is a great GPU, and actuially one that I am considering picking up myself, but it is totally inappropriate for this build. The reasons why Apple computers are so popular with productive people, even though they have little to no GPU power is because the programs being used barely touch the GPU at all. By all means pick up something better than the basic onboard Intel junk, especially if you are going to be using more than one monitor (2-3 monitors are really suggested for a production rig). But a simple $1-200 card is PLENTY of processing power, especially for someone starting out. Also, talk to her. Find out the specific software and plugins being used, find out if they have any GPU support at all, and if they work best on ADM or NVidia. I am a HUGE nVidia fanboy, but most software in the photo world is really starting to support AMD better. So do some research before investing in a GPU. More likely than not this GPU money would be better spend on a higher end CPU or more SSD space. If you really need something more than stock Intel graphics then look at an AMD FirePro or nVidia Quadro card. They are expensive as hell for seemingly little performance, but you can get application specific drivers that make these things scream for use with programs like Photoshop or Aftereffects... Again, assuming that her workflow and filters support GPU acceleration.

Something I do for every production oriented build is buy 2 HDDs and put them in RAID1. This gives you a safe place to put a system image in the event of a main drive failure (making recovery MUCH easier), and I always move things like the my documents folder there so that if everything goes to hell in a handbasket then it makes it very easy to access files again. All Intel based boards have some decent onboard RAID controllers, so it is super easy to set up. It just costs the price of 2 drives instead on one. 2TB drives are the sweet spot for $/GB, and for doing photo work it is probably more space than she will ever need (at least during the life span of this first build), where 1TB drive might run out of space after a few years.

Seasonic makes great cheap reliable and efficient PSUs and I highly recommend them. I would suggest picking up something in the 420-500W range as this is more than enough for a production build, and it can house a pretty powerful gaming card if that is wanted as well.

Lastly for the case: Keep in mind that this is for a girl, and girls tend not to appreciate gamer cases. You know your sister better than me, but in all likelihood she would like something in White or Brushed aluminum. Some of the cases from Fractal Design are absolutely gorgeous and will not break the bank either. Whining fans can be very distracting when trying to do work, so get something with some acoustic foam built in (or put it in yourself, which is what I do to my rigs), and make sure that you are using case fans that are 140mm+ in size and generally run around 4-800RPM so that they are nice and quiet. Even though you are not overclocking Intel stock coolers are quiet, but have a really grating sound, so I would still look into an aftermarket cooler. I like picking up the cheapest tower cooler that I can find on sale, and then replacing the fan with a nice quiet high-quality fan. As you are not overclocking this unit cooling performance is really not an issue, so just about any cooler+fan combo will do just fine.

Again, I would really suggest going with a pre-built system for this on your first go. Dell's business lineup is quite nice and has great support, and contrary to popular opinion here you really do get your money out of an Apple system so long as you are not upgrading them to the moon. These really are good and viable options. But if you are going to build one yourself then I hope that my guidelines here point you in the right direction.
 
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Xeon cpu's dont need a server motherboard and are on manufactures websites as being supported on boards such as H97.

A gaming level gpu will work.. just need to need to decide if CUDA or GCN is better for you.
 
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Even if a xeon processor does work it is a waste of money. Without a c-series chipset you loose out on pretty much all of the advantages that the CPU brings to the table. In the past when there have been xeon CPUs that work with consumer chipsets the processors have been listed on Ark... it would be strange to have it not listed if it works. Still best to stick with a plain-jane i3/5/7 chip for this kind of build as the added cache and reliability is really only an advantage for the most extreme of power users.

Even if a gaming GPU does work, $400+ of GPU horsepower is such a waste on this system. That is money much better spent on a faster CPU, SSD, more RAM, better Mobo, redundant storage... pretty much anything will pack more value per $$ than a GPU. I would suggest sticking with stock Intel graphics, and upgrade the GPU at a later date if it ends up being needed.
Again, without knowing his sister's workflow it is nearly impossible to make a good suggestion here. I have enjoyed the GPU acceleration brought to the table with by GTX570, but it really only accelerates 3 filters that I use in Adobe Premiere, everything else is done on the CPU anyways. If I did not also use my rig for gaming (in fact, mostly use it for gaming, editing is just side projects) then I would have saved that $350 and thrown that money elsewhere. But I like my games, so the GTX570 was the cheapest officially supported card for CUDA acceleration, and also provided me plenty of gaming horsepower (though I regret not getting the 2.5GB version now as the lack of ram is making me want to upgrade prematurely).
 
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You make some good points.. If the op does not want to do a lot of research then a pre made is really going to be better even if it has less horsepower
 
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H97 doesn't allow for SLI, or proper Crossfire, and generally no overclocking, which that CPU cannot do anyway. H97 is a solid chipset for single GPU, non overclocking systems. It has raid support, just like Z97 does.
 
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The op probably just feels run in circles now haha

I guess it is not even really that much research and learning about raid, cuda, and gcn is really something someone wanting to do these things should do anyway.
 
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Xeon is for 24/7 workhorse machines that demand absolute up-time no matter what situation you are in. They have lots of neat added features for professional builds, especially when paired with the absolutely amazing and solid C-series chipsets. If you pair it with a normal consumer-level chipset then all that you are getting is a little extra cache and pretty much nothing else. If not getting a c-series chipset then save a few $$ and pick up a normal consumer i3/5/7 chip as the Xeon will be more expensive, and in most cases will run SLOWER. It will also be able to run error-free for years straight if needed, but that is really not likely needed for this level of build.

Don't get me wrong, Xeon chips are awesome, but every bit of hardware has a purpose, and the purpose of a xeon is wasted on this kind of build. If you need a zillion PCIe lanes, need to render 24/7 for weeks on end, want the ability to run ECC/REG memory, and have access to oodles of HDDs with multiple concurrent RAID configurations then absolutely get a Xeon chip and abuse the hell out of it because that is what it is made for.

If you are just doing the occasional project that just takes a day or two to render (or with photoshop just a few seconds) then pick up an i5 or i7 chip.

If you are building a pro-level rig, then build a fully professional rig with all workstation parts. If not, then just build a really nice consumer or prosumer level rig.
 
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