PC Gaming, too expensive!!

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pc gaming is not expensive when you buy only hardware if you buy a pc for lets say 2000$you stay with this pc 3-4 years with some upgrades and then you get all your games for free you save alot of money for the next pc thats what i do
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If everybody does as you recommend, "all your games" will equate to 0 in no time.

There are other threads where you can express your view on software piracy, let's keep this topic clean, and lets assume that there will be enough decent customers around to support your anti social habit.
 
If you buy a lot of games, then I don't see how console gaming isn't more expensive. You pay $10 more per game, you pay a premium on slower hard drives, you get toned down 720p graphics. $800 will get you a decent gaming PC that will tear apart a PS3 and 360 in graphics AND functionality. You also can't play RTS on consoles (in a practical sense).
 
most game makers complain about pc gaming not being a good business

there have been many articles about this http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080320-pc-game-developer-has-radical-message-ignore-the-pirates.html

the problem is that game developers decide to make a game that only 5% of the pc gamers can run, and probably only 20% of that 5 % will be interested in the game, then probably 10% of that 20% will pirate the game because they didn't feel like bending over backwards and jumping through a million hoops for the drm to let them play the game

then they complain that not enough people are buying the game.
while i understand that graphics are good to have, but theres no point in doing overkill and giving up gameplay in favor of better graphics. when you get a game that has extremely good graphics, the wow effect only last about 5-10 minutes. if you have crappy game play, no one is going to buy the game, they will pirate it just to get that 5-10 minute wow effect then delete the game

i'm not saying make games look like crap, just make them look good and work fine on the videocards that most people have.

games designed for the more midrange videocards still look better than many console games and more people can run it.

look at some of the most successful games. you will see that they stay popular for a while, and they sell like crazy because more people are actually able to run the game.

console is so successful because many people have them, and when a game cones out, 100% of them are able to run the game


when a new pc game comes out, only like 5% of the people are able to run it the way it was designed to run.

even if they can add a super low quality setting to the game, the really good looking games generally have crappy game play, no one wants a game that looks crappy and has crappy game play. so they just don't buy it

i rather have a game that will run well on geforce 6-7 series cards and have good gameplay than to have ones that require you to have dual 8800's

game makers don't get good business for pc gaming so they move to console gaming . it doesnt matter of piracy stopped 100%, with out piracy, the games wouldn't sell at all. before FEAR started to get pirated, the multiplayer sucked. you were lucky to find more than 3 people in a server. so i didn't play the game until some time later when it became pirated (when fear was NEW, you could get it for $5 on ebay because people didn't find ffa with 3 people exciting.

pc gaming would be much more successful if they would make it more computer friendly (game developers seem more focused on making the games harder to run than making them fun to play)


and as many articles say, it is better to ignore the pirates instead of fighting them with drm. (as in the article i posted) they wind up more successful, and has no effect on the level of piracy. most game drm is broken with in a few hours of a game release. a 5 hour delay on piracy doesnt help you much, and getting your game DRM'ed is very expensive so it is just a loss of profits

game developers need to also stop saying that oh we lost $5 million to pirates. those people wouldn't have paid for the game anyway. and some people will download the same game more than once, and a torrent hit and a complete download are 2 different things. (of average trackers can get 200 millions hits in a few days, but only 100-200 complete downloads of a pirated game )

there is no drm that doesn't inconvenience the end user, the problem is that cracked games have 100% no drm,which = 100% no inconvenience from it, while the legit users are stuck jumping through hoops to just play the game

with console games, you just pop the cd in and play, no serial or other crap needed
(same as with many cracked, game, download> no install needed> launch the game and enjoy)

legit copy: unpackage box > look for cd key > make sure your connected to internet for activation> start the installation > click no for installing gamespy (aka gamespyware advertising) > enter in your 50 digit cd key > enter it in again because you made a mistake on 1 of the letters > double check the cd key to make sure it is type d in this time> type it in again because that 0 was really an o > wait 15 minutes for installation to finish > activate the game > launch the game> error, cd1 must be in the drive> insert cd1 > play the game


cracked copy: download> launch game and enjoy

which seems easier to you?



look at movie piracy. what stops you from getting that pirate copy of it?
well one thing, uncompressed 1080P looks much better than, out of focused 320x240 cam with people walking in front of the cam and coughing and talking in the background, and no bass because camcorder mics only pick up 100-14000hz

the real thing has better quality so you go for the real thing
while there some people who are happy with the out of focused cam (idiots don't even know how to use a camcorder and have the nerve to record a movie) they wont pay to see the movie anyway
 
I think the best and most practical piracy prevention method is the CD key and an online ladder that bans shared CD keys from online play. Who would get a full $50 of value from a stolen copy of CoD4 if they couldn't play their pirated copy online?
 



EA does that and it was cracked before the game came out because crackers got a hold of the beta copies

the problem is that it will cost the company 200-300 thousand dollars to DRM their game, and the most they can hope for is a 1-2 day delay in the piracy of the game
 
The way to go is really just a cd key entered when you install in my opinion. People who are going to pirate the game no matter what will always find a way, but the cd key is enough to deter the lazier pirates (myself included when it comes to online games).
 
pirates do the work so others don't have to, most pirate games have been said to not even require an installation. a simple download and play.

if pirates can make the game not need an installation (and still work with patches and other addons ) why cant the developers do it?

pirates have made pc games run just like console games, no install needed. thats 1 of the problems.

why don't people get pirate cable tv?, the reason is that it i not as good as the real thing.

but when the pirate copy is better than the real thing, then you have a problem.

why do you buy iphone instead of the hiphone? the video toms hardware made should answer that for you.

a full game crack is making the entire thing a download and play and depending on the game, the exe may add a registry key into your registry to make patches and mods detect it as being installed

 


Then don't build DRM, just ban pirated CD keys from online play.
 



they already do that, but the problem is that they have cracked copies that cant be banned, and if they use a more complex banning method then you see thousands of cracked servers spring up which allow banned cd keys

most legit servers also patch their server to allow invalid cd keys so they can get more players in their server



if you check the Rulez bf2 server (really popular, they allowed invalid cd keys because they get more players that way and they also make more money with the banner in the loading screen banner they put, which helps cover the cost of the server)

the best way to stop piracy is to offer something the pirates cant offer. quality. you pay for your movies because the pirate copies are 99% of the time blurry and have poor sound that sounds like the pirate hid the mic in his/her butt so no one would notice. while the video looks like they stuck a garbage bag over the lens or smeared bird crap on it

for movies, pirates cant offer quality. for games, pirates offer more quality and convenience. (the same convenience of consoles, no install just download or insert game disk and play)


piracy is a business and the only way to win it to make something better than what pirates can offer.

sell game cheaper (people are more ok with spending $20 on a game they never tried before, than spending $60 for it)

offer other incentives for using non pirated like no installation needed
discount card for half off if they make an expansion to the game

and try to provide all of the convenience of the pirate copies and have no drm and piracy for the game will most likely stop because the legit copy will be convenient and it will feel safer as it is less likely to contain a trojan
 
It would be interesting if you can build your own PS3 or any other console. BYO PC and BYO Console lol.

IMHO: I was waisting away money when I would buy a new PC every few years. For example: Alienware (There customer service sucks!) and Falcon Northwest. I was afraid of building my own until just recently. I liek the flexability with PC games as well as the PC itself. If I upgrade it would a few years until I feel the need. I've given up with keeping up with the technology lol, what was I thinkin! The console games are going up as well as the consoles too. I remember when Nintendo first came out (the commerical with R.O.B.) and I saw it at Toys R US. When my father saw the pricetag he was like, are you nuts! Funny how you see the Xbox360 and PS3 up to $299-$599 and games as high as $59.99. Will Flight Simulator X be on PS3 anytime soon lol. I wasnt to crazy with different renditions of the Sims Franchise on the consoles. I enjoy playing the Sims2 and its expansions on my PC. After buying all the expansions now Sims3 was just announced. Oh well, i will buy it and all the expansions also. With all the new technoloy across all the platforms and PC's and the new stuff being released months later, oh well.
 
An 8800GT can be had for £129.99 (512mb), thats $260.

At the end of the day, if you can't afford it don't buy it. No one is forcing you to buy something to play games on.

 
The consoles scale it to 1080P. Like COD4, it's a native 600P (1024x600) and scaled (upcoverted) to 1080P. A PC playing COD4 at native 1080P or 19x12 will look much better.
 
OK, I get your point, but heres one for you...why didnt you just get a console way back when? Because maybe they were limited to pong? And once a game its downloaded from cd its done. The coming of the 780G for a igp that really can play games, the ideas that the game makers are pushing out , like everything being done on the internet just may elimanate consoles. This article astounded me, as this is exactly how I feel about the future of gaming period. Read it, good stuff http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2277507,00.asp So, you want easy? Its coming. You want better graphics like a pc and still easy? Its coming. You went where the best was, early on. Have the consoles caught up? Yes. Will they last? Thatll be decided in a few short years
 
I think Mark Rein at Epic hit the nail on the head when it comes to the decline in PC gaming. There is a HUGE divide between the low end systems and high end ones. It's much bigger than it used to be back in the day. A lot of blame has to be on Intel for pushing to keep their low end integrated GPU in low cost laptops and desktops. With the revised look at software rendering again, this may change (i.e. raytracing), but until then PC gaming will continue to decline with this large difference between systems. Why can't any new system, laptop or desktop, ship with a DX9 capable chip? It doesn't have to be the fastest or best one out there, but it could at least play UT3 at medium res, or even Crysis at lower res. You can even account for WoW's popularity since it can run on a DX7 based system.
 
Meh. Like or hate what he has to say, he does have a point. If your average person who bought say a new Dell desktop had a "low end" video card that could render DX9 decently as the base level, you'd have more people playing PC games.
 
really lol hdtvs are like 800 + dollars while a monitor with a similar resolution is like 200. But seriously, it depends on what you like to do. If your really good at gaming then a console generally isn't the way to go because its more about luck than skill... honestly it is... but every household has a computer, or should have a computer... most 600 dollar computers, which you need, come with the equipment to play most current gen games at low detail settings, now granted its not as "purty" as a console but you get to play generally better games and still have the ultimate multi-media platform.


or you could hack a xbox 360 and turn it into a normal comp =P get a 300 medium level computer lol (probably not even possible yet)
 
PC gaming is as expensive as you are willing to put out in upgrades. The games are allot cheaper then console games. and let's not forget that the pc is not only used for game eh!

PS3 and XBox are cheap because you got it at x-mas and using mom and dad's 52 inch plasma tv to play it on, because let me tell you that PS3 or Xbox looks like crap on the basement 1970's spare tv.

But it's ok the more kids that flock to consoles the better in my opinion leave the pc's to serious gamers :)

 
I priced out a 'decent' rig yesterday. Dual core processor, 2 Gigs of ram, ATI 3850, mATX motherboard and Case, dvd burner, mouse / keyboard, an OEM copy of Vista and a logitech gamepad ... everything except a monitor.
Came out to $750.

$750 - $400 (for a PS3) =$350. That's 350 for everything a console can't do. Email, Internet, PORN. 350 sounds reasonable for the added features.
 
Here's my opinion.

First of all nowaday's, I decent gaming PC may only cost you slightly more than a console. Most people usually have a monitor keyboard mouse speakers etc.

in january I built this system for just over 700 dollars. What was a launch ps3? 599? now xbox and ps3 are hovering around 400. Dont get me started on the wii due to its availability.

MSI p6n platinum
c2d e6750
2gb ddr2 corsair
300gb seagate sata
eVGA 8800GT 512
Arctic cooler freezer pro 7

Everything (aside from crysis I assume, i dont even own it) runs smooth and the graphics are superior to consoles. It will not be a requirement for me to upgrade over the next 2-3 years, but if I want better graphics I will. If I dont mind adjusting the graphics level of future games to remain on par with what I am experiencing now, its not an issue. A consoles graphics level remains the same throughout its life span, where as pc gamers have the OPTION of making it better. Until this upgrade, I was rockin my p4 2.4ghz HT 1.5gb ddr gf4ti/6800gt(the only thing I upgraded in this system ever) for 4 strait years, with full enjoyment being able to play everything I got. Yes things get outdated quickly, but you dont NEED to upgrade just because its out dated, Ps3, xbox, wii are already outdated by computer capability, consoles just don't have the option to upgrade. PC gaming is only expensive if you make it so, by feeling you need to have the latest and greatest all the time.

 
As far as piracy is concerned (I still just own a PS2, I do intend on getting a PS3, primarily for blu ray and There will be a few console titles I want (SF4)) I dont know the current state of console piracy, but I recall it being a breeze with Playstation 1 and dreamcast(yes I owned one) I wasn't into Console gaming as much when i got my ps2, so i didnt care, and now adays I am an adult and can afford games so trying to stiff the man is a waste of time for me. Anyway when I was in highschool at the height of PS1, all it took was heading down to the local game shop, get it modded, rent a game, burn it, viola! I don't like navigating malware virus land to do whats necessary to aquire pirated pc software.
 



Brought up a good point, computer manufacturers and pc part manufacters are decieving to non techie consumers too. I mean 3-500 dollar basic PC's are a dime a dozen and dont inform people of what it is not capable of. Much like there was a topic earlier about sellers slapping titles like "EXTREME GRAPHICS" on a GF MX card.
Essentially spoiling people into thinking having to spend more than 500 dollars on a PC is ludicrous. IMO PC gaming is as cheap as its ever been before. I was wowed with how cheap i was able to construct a more than gaming worthy PC when I retired my 4 year old dinosaur that was still truckin along at the time. The first PC I personally bought (before I delved into building, so I guess my first and last preassembled pc) cost me 2100 dollars in 1999, that got me a 600 mhz AMD Athlon (I believe 1ghz had just hit the market) Voodoo 3 128 megs of ram, 20g hdd, cdrom, Soudblaster, 56k modem, floppy drive. That system would have been considered about mid range at the time, my current pc would qualify about mid range but cost me 1300 dollars less. that pc also experienced slow down in age of empires, and C&C: tiberian sun. I have yet to experience any slowdown in any new game i have purchased (I dont own crysis, but that doesnt count anyway)
 
Your average user isn't going to want to know what goes on inside the computer. That's the big advantage consoles have over PCs. Sure us technical folks know the difference between a 8800gts and an 8800gts G92, most people don't.

I think that's a problem with the whole PC industry in general, and where Apple gets it right. You limit what a standard customer can get, but allow for flexibility for more advanced users in your equipment. The real test I did was sending my parents to Dell's webstore and then to Apple's to find a laptop. Apple's was much less complicated. It's the same when it comes to PC gaming vs consoles. People like to plug the thing in and have it just work.
 
Lets not forget the real problem is the operating systems. Each operating system gets bigger and bigger leaving the old systems unable to run games they should.

My girlfriends computer runs Sam and Max season 1. Sam and Max required a 1.5 ghz proc, 512 meg of ram, and 32 meg video card for xp/vista. Her basic cheap dell has win2k a 900mhz celeron processor and 256 meg of ram. She bought a PCI graphics video card for 60 bucks. Her system is 7 years old.

It stutters here and there (not a big deal in adventure games). The voices are smooth and the loading takes a bit of time. Other than that it runs fine at 800x600. She probably represents a large untapped gamers market. They will buy games (thank you Half Price books for 7 dollar games), but only if they can play them.

You can buy the cheapest dell computer with windows xp for about 360 dollars. 1 gig of ram, a 1.6 ghz celeron, integrated video and sound. This means a home user only needs to buy a video card for about 60 dollars. Simple instructions on how to uninstall the drivers and put in the pci card would help. Funny thing is you can get a better computer for 428 dollars (1.8 core 2 duo and 256 mb video card) installed for cheaper but it has vista and still only 1 gig of memory.

So a gaming machine of about 450 dollars with tax and shipping. Also almost none of the hassle of scratch building your own system (which most people are afraid of).

I still find it ironic that Warcraft 3 is still played more by my group than the newest rts and part of that is because we can play it on old laptops.
 
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