Question PC hard crashing is Repeatable scenario

[Ghost 0776]

My issue is back again and so am I. PC Specs:

i9 13900k

MSI 4090 Gaming Trio

ASUS Maximus Hero z790

64 gbs Trident ram 2x32 6000mhz

Seasonic PrimeTX 1600w Titanium PSU

Samsung 990 1tb for boot

Samsung 990 2tb for everything else.

PC will randomly turn off in specific and repeatable situation, no BSOD just hard crash. The repeatable situation being I play the game For Honor while watching videos or just having chrome open. It has also occurred in Bf2042 but only once. I can consistently make the PC crash doing those specific things. If I don't do those things, no crash. I've done just about everything, No logs in event viewer. PC reliability monitor only shows Microsoft Gameinput reconfiguring during shutdown time. Which I just ruled out by disabling. I have no Overclock or changes to Bios, Temperatures are great and never reach throttling. I've done Memtest with no issues, Ive reinstalled windows a few times. All drivers are up to date and I mean every single one. I've ruled out faulty USB ports on Motherboard, Ive reseated every piece of hardware. It could be PSU related but I don't really believe so considering the specific scenario required to crash the PC. PC runs amazing on everything else, never crashes during stress tests of benchmarks. Never crashes on Cyberpunk or any other games or any games at all if chrome isn't open during play. I'm at my wits end, sure I can just not watch stuff while playing For Honor in particular but its just the principle of the thing you know? I want to get to the bottom of this but its not the end of the world If I just have to chalk it up to software not liking each other as long as there is nothing truly wrong with the PC. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas please let me know, I appreciate it very much.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Does it crash immediately as soon as you open a video or chrome browser when For honor is running, or does it crash at different, intermittent periods of time?

Will it crash if JUST For honor is running and nothing else, no matter how long you have it running?

Have you tried a fresh download of For honor, installed on a fresh installation of Windows, rather than repeatedly using the same installer throughout this whole process? Sometimes it might be the actual game installer that is corrupted and you just keep putting the same problem back on the system.

 

[Lutfij]

Can you check and see what BIOS version you're on at this moment of time?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right. Also was going to ask that. What is your current motherboard BIOS version?

 

[an5io_oleka]

I once had a game crashing the computer to shut off when i set it to 1920x1080. After a certain time.

The power supply was bad. Only that game, only that setting.
Just so you have that information at hand.

 

[Ghost 0776]

Does it crash immediately as soon as you open a video or chrome browser when For honor is running, or does it crash at different, intermittent periods of time?

Will it crash if JUST For honor is running and nothing else, no matter how long you have it running?

Have you tried a fresh download of For honor, installed on a fresh installation of Windows, rather than repeatedly using the same installer throughout this whole process? Sometimes it might be the actual game installer that is corrupted and you just keep putting the same problem back on the system.

The time it takes to crash seems random. Never happens instantaneously but it could take 5 mins, could take an hour or more. Typically about 20-30 mins though. I should also add that sometimes if it does it then I can't get it to repeat in the same day. Sometimes I can but sometimes it wont happen till I turn my PC while I sleep and attempt again the next day.

It does not crash if I am only running For Honor or a game without chrome or video playing no matter how long I have it running.

I believe I have tried reinstalling For Honor I can't remember but its been a while I'll do it again to make sure. I've check file integrity many times but will reinstall again. Ill see to doing that with a fresh Windows install.

 

[Ghost 0776]

Can you check and see what BIOS version you're on at this moment of time?

I just updated to 0904 about a week ago. Problem was occurring on every version of Bios so far.

 

[Ghost 0776]

Right. Also was going to ask that. What is your current motherboard BIOS version?

I just updated to 0904 about a week ago. Problem was occurring on every version of Bios so far.

 

[Ghost 0776]

I once had a game crashing the computer to shut off when i set it to 1920x1080. After a certain time.

The power supply was bad. Only that game, only that setting.
Just so you have that information at hand.

So it was a faulty PSU for you? Did you RMA?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Make sure to download the latest version of the game installer, fresh, including any patches that might be available for it. Do not use the old installer if you have it saved to another drive or partition. Get it fresh, and try it on a fresh install of Windows.

Also, when you say you have the latest drivers, how, exactly, are you getting those? Are you using a driver update utility? Are you using one of the motherboard manufacturer's utilities? Are you relying on the native Windows drivers?

For the record, if you are using ANY of the free motherboard manufacturer utilities like ASUS Armory crate, etc, don't. Get rid of it. Don't put it back on when you reinstall Windows. They are pure garbage.

Get the latest motherboard drivers directly from the product page for your motherboard, and download the latest version for chipset, audio and network controllers manually from that page. Get your graphics driver directly from the Nvidia website AND I would try it FIRST, without GeForce experience. Choose the "driver only" option. I've seen GFe cause problems just as often as the motherboard utilities like Armory crate.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would literally try EVERYTHING else before looking at the power supply because with a 1600w unit, and a good one at that, you are comfortably above your needs for this graphics card so you shouldn't have to worry about the power excursions (Transient spikes) causing it and it shouldn't be a protections issue because you have plenty of headroom. I have heard of some Seasonic Prime models having issues with some 4000 series cards, but that is usually because they are very close to the recommended power capacity of their graphics card and are sometimes exceeding it's tuning on those protections.

Are you by chance using a UPS battery backup system WITH this system?

 

[Ghost 0776]

Make sure to download the latest version of the game installer, fresh, including any patches that might be available for it. Do not use the old installer if you have it saved to another drive or partition. Get it fresh, and try it on a fresh install of Windows.

Also, when you say you have the latest drivers, how, exactly, are you getting those? Are you using a driver update utility? Are you using one of the motherboard manufacturer's utilities? Are you relying on the native Windows drivers?

For the record, if you are using ANY of the free motherboard manufacturer utilities like ASUS Armory crate, etc, don't. Get rid of it. Don't put it back on when you reinstall Windows. They are pure garbage.

Get the latest motherboard drivers directly from the product page for your motherboard, and download the latest version for chipset, audio and network controllers manually from that page. Get your graphics driver directly from the Nvidia website AND I would try it FIRST, without GeForce experience. Choose the "driver only" option. I've seen GFe cause problems just as often as the motherboard utilities like Armory crate.

I used some driver utility for the random drivers. I believe it was Driver Fix or something like that. I updated all Mobo drivers directly from their website. I also did the DDU uninstall for graphics driver and install from website before as well. I used Samsung Magician for my SSD drivers.

I 100% agree with you about Armory Crate the problem is it is the only way I know of to change the rgb lighting on the led screen of my motherboard. I was okay with the rainbow default it has going but I couldn't handle the bright light staying on through the night, lit up my whole room. Maybe you know another way I can control that RGB without Armory crate?

 

[Ghost 0776]

I would literally try EVERYTHING else before looking at the power supply because with a 1600w unit, and a good one at that, you are comfortably above your needs for this graphics card so you shouldn't have to worry about the power excursions (Transient spikes) causing it and it shouldn't be a protections issue because you have plenty of headroom. I have heard of some Seasonic Prime models having issues with some 4000 series cards, but that is usually because they are very close to the recommended power capacity of their graphics card and are sometimes exceeding it's tuning on those protections.

Are you by chance using a UPS battery backup system WITH this system?

That's my same thoughts on PSU. Its suppose to be a super high quality one. I actually only went 1600w because the 1300w went out of stock the moment I went to buy everything but I didn't think the overhead would hurt, especially with the transient spikes of the 4000 series cards.

I am not currently using a UPS but I am looking to get one, however I don't really know where to start with those. I have some research to do there.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok. Do NOT use driver fix, driver updater or any other automatic utility for drivers. BAD idea.

Instead, get the relevant motherboard drivers directly from the MB support page. Get the GPU drivers directly from the Nvidia website. If your keyboard, mouse, printer or any other peripherals need drivers then get those drivers directly from the manufacturer. For example, if it's a Logitech keyboard or mouse, go to the Logitech website and get the device specific driver or utility for it. Then, if there are any remaining devices that need drivers installed AFTER you've done all that, look in Windows update under the "Optional drivers" option which can be found after clicking on the "Advanced options" option. Between the manufacturer drivers, which you should always look to FIRST, and then Windows update for any remaining drivers that might be necessary, there should never be any reason to use ANY kind of update utility and those always cause far more problems than they solve. Sometimes they will even INSTALL a problem for you, free of charge. LOL.

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's my same thoughts on PSU. Its suppose to be a super high quality one. I actually only went 1600w because the 1300w went out of stock the moment I went to buy everything but I didn't think the overhead would hurt, especially with the transient spikes of the 4000 series cards.

I am not currently using a UPS but I am looking to get one, however I don't really know where to start with those. I have some research to do there.

Do a LOT of research, and THEN, still come here and ask for more insights. But not having one of course wouldn't have anything to do with this problem. Having one that is poor quality or crapping out, might, which is why I asked.

 

[Ghost 0776]

Ok. Do NOT use driver fix, driver updater or any other automatic utility for drivers. BAD idea.

Instead, get the relevant motherboard drivers directly from the MB support page. Get the GPU drivers directly from the Nvidia website. If your keyboard, mouse, printer or any other peripherals need drivers then get those drivers directly from the manufacturer. For example, if it's a Logitech keyboard or mouse, go to the Logitech website and get the device specific driver or utility for it. Then, if there are any remaining devices that need drivers installed AFTER you've done all that, look in Windows update under the "Optional drivers" option which can be found after clicking on the "Advanced options" option. Between the manufacturer drivers, which you should always look to FIRST, and then Windows update for any remaining drivers that might be necessary, there should never be any reason to use ANY kind of update utility and those always cause far more problems than they solve. Sometimes they will even INSTALL a problem for you, free of charge. LOL.

I should clarify I only used Driver Fix to see if there was any I missed. Never used it to install anything. Uninstalled immediately too lol

 

[Ghost 0776]

Do a LOT of research, and THEN, still come here and ask for more insights. But not having one of course wouldn't have anything to do with this problem. Having one that is poor quality or crapping out, might, which is why I asked.

Ill definitely do my due diligence when it comes to the UPS when I can get around to it. And Yeah as far as Im aware the power to my room shouldn't be and issue. Do you possibly think this could have anything to do with Chrome itself considering I don't crash without it?

 

[an5io_oleka]

I used Samsung Magician for my SSD drivers.

That programm left "high performance" energy mode enabled each time it ran on windows. While i had "balanced" set. Its strange. So i uninstall that programm and set "balanced" again.
What happens with your problem if you set "balanced" energy mode? By the way.
That is default.

So it was a faulty PSU for you? Did you RMA?

It was just out of warranty. I think i saw volt dropping to 11,9 or something. I had the feeling, this could be the power supply fault. When it was gone the problem was gone.
Its max wattage was way above what my computer needed.
Known brand, but a terrible power supply.

I just wanted to mention it, as its something someone could test.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Known brand, but a terrible power supply.

Let me guess, cheap bottom of the barrel model from Corsair, Fooler master or Thermalfake?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Using Samsung magician shouldn't have anything to do with drivers unless you specifically download the Samsung NVME driver and install it. I don't recommend doing that, same as I don't recommend using Magician (But for different reasons) because the Windows native NVME driver works better and I have tested the results with both the Samsung NVME driver and the native Windows supplied NVME driver, and the results were consistently better with the native driver. Also, there is never any need to install ANY of the RAID/SATA drivers on modern systems unless you are running a RAID array, which I'd ALSO recommend to anybody that they NOT do unless they are very knowledgeable in the area of storage and understand, REALLY understand, exactly WHY they are doing so.

If it's for "performance" reasons, don't do it. There is zero reason for doing so on modern systems with extremely high speed NVME M.2 drives and in fact it's been shown in various reviews that it will actually DECREASE performance in many cases. There is also no reason to need to install the Intel rapid storage technology drivers. It also shouldn't HURT anything if you do install them, but they are totally not necessary. Microsoft's native storage device drivers work fine, just as well, and will usually be installed ANYHOW, so why add another driver to the mix?

What version of Windows are you running and what BUILD version of that version?

 

[Ghost 0776]

Using Samsung magician shouldn't have anything to do with drivers unless you specifically download the Samsung NVME driver and install it. I don't recommend doing that, same as I don't recommend using Magician (But for different reasons) because the Windows native NVME driver works better and I have tested the results with both the Samsung NVME driver and the native Windows supplied NVME driver, and the results were consistently better with the native driver. Also, there is never any need to install ANY of the RAID/SATA drivers on modern systems unless you are running a RAID array, which I'd ALSO recommend to anybody that they NOT do unless they are very knowledgeable in the area of storage and understand, REALLY understand, exactly WHY they are doing so.

If it's for "performance" reasons, don't do it. There is zero reason for doing so on modern systems with extremely high speed NVME M.2 drives and in fact it's been shown in various reviews that it will actually DECREASE performance in many cases. There is also no reason to need to install the Intel rapid storage technology drivers. It also shouldn't HURT anything if you do install them, but they are totally not necessary. Microsoft's native storage device drivers work fine, just as well, and will usually be installed ANYHOW, so why add another driver to the mix?

What version of Windows are you running and what BUILD version of that version?

I had to download drivers from Samsung Magician for the 990 pros because they had an issue reporting their health as deteriorating faster than it actually was. It was required, no getting around it. I can uninstall it now though.

I'm running windows 11 pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.1555)

 

[Darkbreeze]

No, it was actually deteriorating that fast, that was the problem. And the firmware release that fixed the problem did not reverse whatever damage was already caused, it just stopped the problem from continuing and you should be aware of that so you can be sure to keep an eye on the health of that drive. It's fine to leave Magician installed for that reason. I only recommend not using Magician when people have drives that are able to use Rapid Mode and do so, but don't have a whole lot of RAM installed, because Rapid Mode uses RAM and it can cause problems if you don't understand how it works. Pretty sure your drive does not support it and now that you are aware you can choose to not use it even if your drive did support it. Besides which, you have plenty of RAM. Likely far more than you will ever use unless you run very high end applications, or VMs, or do extremely extensive multitasking.

So, these are the specific drivers, for now anyhow until and unless newer ones are released at some point which they likely will be so the next time you have to install drivers or periodically check for them anyhow to see if they have been superseded by newer ones, that you want to install. I'm just pointing them out so that if you reinstall Windows you can already have these saved for use immediately after installing Windows.

LAN/Ethernet adapter: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...438_20230321R.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel WiFi: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...004_20230130R.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel serial I/O driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/..._WIN11_64-bit.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel Z790 chipset driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/..._WIN11_64-bit.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel management engine interface driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...420_20230418B.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Realtek audio driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/..._WIN11_64-bit.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Realtek USB audio driver (I think this should only be used if you know you are going to use an audio device over USB): https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...342_20230330B.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel bluetooth driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...002_20230130R.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Intel thunderbolt driver: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/..._WIN11_64-bit.zip?model=ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

Any other drivers should be obtained by their manufacturers. So, for graphics, Nvidia, AMD or Intel. If it's a Logitech keyboard or mouse, etc., get it from Logitech. Anything left over that wasn't covered or known you can check for after you've done everything else but going into the advanced, and optional drivers section of Windows update.