Question PC not performing to expectations ?

[bezwick]

Hi there, so I’ve been having some complications with my setup recently, and was hoping anyone could help me out.
Here are my specs:

RTX 4090

i9-10850K

MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge WIFI MOBO

16 gb DDR4 RAM

850 W Power Supply

For cooling I have the iCUE H150i CPU cooler and three other case fans.

The problem that I’m having is not getting the performance I should be getting. Just recently got the 4090 and haven’t been getting what is expected in regards to performance with the setup I have. Everywhere I read says this should be a great setup. I was hoping someone might maybe notice something wrong. Before the 4090 I had a 2070 Super with the same CPU I have now but also wasn’t getting what was expected of my setup performance-wise at the time. In Red Dead Redemption 2 I get about 110 frames with just texture settings set to ultra and everything else either high or medium. Same with games like Darktide and Ready or Not. Battlefield 2042 gets about 100 frames with textures on high and everything else lower than that. Everywhere I read, it says I should be able to get 144 on all ultra settings for most games with this GPU and CPU combination. Could it be CPU bottleneck? I know I should get 32 gb ram, just haven’t gotten around to it yet. But I don’t think that would have this big of an effect on performance. I know some said 850 W isn’t the best for the 4090. I’m totally stumped on what the issue is.

Anyone that could lend a tip or point out something odd they noticed would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[DavidM012]

PSU Tier list Make, Model age of Power supply? What brand 12vHPWR connector are you using, one that shipped with gpu?

What Resolution are you running at? Reddit says 60fps at 4k should be butter smooth with your cpu+gpu combo. You may not have any technical problems, simply don't understand what rez. should give you 144fps - probably 1440p since a 4090 is overkill for 1080p.

On Warzone... one of the replies on reddit thread, '10850k here. 144hz Played some warzone 2, with my 3080 I would get around 80-120 with medium settings and dlss balanced @4k. With the 4090 max settings and no dlss I was getting 120-144. The game just looks incredible now.'.

...Different games, different game engines?

Some do prefer 1000w or 1250 or something like a corsair hx1000i or an Asus Thor 1000w or 1200 watt to err on the side of caution cpu review said to run 250w so you have 600w for your gpu if it's only running at 450w then you aren't going over the psu capacity besides transients which don't seem to be tripping you up.

Hum here's another comparable thread with a iCue and your CPU & Mobo All the fans plugged into 1 header or something, not enough power to the fans which caused thermal throttling.

Have you monitored thermals with Hwmonitor and hwinfo?

What's your monitor? DisplayPort or HDMI?

What speed memory?

 

[bezwick]

PSU Tier list Make, Model age of Power supply? What brand 12vHPWR connector are you using, one that shipped with gpu?

What Resolution are you running at? Reddit says 60fps at 4k should be butter smooth with your cpu+gpu combo. You may not have any technical problems, simply don't understand what rez. should give you 144fps - probably 1440p since a 4090 is overkill for 1080p.

On Warzone... one of the replies on reddit thread, '10850k here. 144hz Played some warzone 2, with my 3080 I would get around 80-120 with medium settings and dlss balanced @4k. With the 4090 max settings and no dlss I was getting 120-144. The game just looks incredible now.'.

...Different games, different game engines?

Some do prefer 1000w or 1250 or something like a corsair hx1000i or an Asus Thor 1000w or 1200 watt to err on the side of caution cpu review said to run 250w so you have 600w for your gpu if it's only running at 450w then you aren't going over the psu capacity besides transients which don't seem to be tripping you up.

Hum here's another comparable thread with a iCue and your CPU & Mobo All the fans plugged into 1 header or something, not enough power to the fans which caused thermal throttling.

Have you monitored thermals with Hwmonitor and hwinfo?

What's your monitor? DisplayPort or HDMI?

What speed memory?

Hey there, thank for trying to help out. I currently have the Thermaltake Toughpower GF1, which is 850W. Bought it separately from the GPU. I’m running at 1080p but I also read it’s pretty much overkill for that res. Which makes me question why I’m not getting more frames even more. When you say run the CPU at 250W, do you know how I would do that? I can probably look it up and find out. I haven’t monitored thermals much outside of MSI Afterburner and GeForce Experience. But I will try what you recommended. Also the monitor is DisplayPort. Right now I have 16 gb of DDR4-3000 ram. Thank you again for your help.

 

[DavidM012]

I mean it does run at 250w under load according to the info I looked up.

ddr4 3000 ram is about right cpu datasheet says supports ddr 4 2933, a tad slower than 3200mhz or 3600mhz but might not get you much of an uplift. Sure the dimms are in a2/b2 mobo slots for dual channel mode?

You can use cpu z to check it's running dual channel.

Mobo specification says:

• 
  4x DDR4 memory slots, support up to 128GB1
• Supports 1R 2133/2666/2933 MHz*
  • 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 5000+ MHz
  • 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 4500+ MHz
  • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4400+ MHz
  • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000+ MHz
• Supports Dual-Channel mode
• Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory
• Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)

1. Please refer www.msi.com for more information on compatible memory

You could use faster dimms with XMP, which in practice might cause your CPU to run hotter. I'm not sure if anyone actually does run faster RAM on it, you would have to buy 4000mhz-5000mhz dimms which probably aren't cheap. Which might be a boost - people don't always specify their exact build when they are boasting of their fps so you can't ever really be sure what they've done when the info is spotty and you aren't sure technically.

Themaltake toughpower gf1

Tier C (lo priority units) recommended for cheap/mid lo end systems:

• Thermaltake | Toughpower GF [no numbers] =>750W [2] [without number] / GF2 ARGB / GX2 / European Gold =>750W / Russian Gold GF1 / SFX ['TT Premium Edition']

So folks here would recommend a tier A power supply for a 4090 which is better described as the hi end of the gpu market.

It just seems at the moment you are fortunate that your Tier C power supply was able to cope with a 4090 but maybe you could look at hwinfo power usage and see what's going on there if it looks like it's not really operating at full power or something that could be suspect.

oh and 1080p I think is more CPU bound while 4k is GPU bound so maybe just try to upscale your resolution. Oh so you aren't running at hi rez which is maybe why your GPU isn't running full power and so your power supply has survived so far.

 

[bezwick]

I mean it does run at 250w under load according to the info I looked up.

ddr4 3000 ram is about right cpu datasheet says supports ddr 4 2933, a tad slower than 3200mhz or 3600mhz but might not get you much of an uplift. Sure the dimms are in a2/b2 mobo slots for dual channel mode?

You can use cpu z to check it's running dual channel.

Mobo specification says:

• 
  4x DDR4 memory slots, support up to 128GB1
• Supports 1R 2133/2666/2933 MHz*
  • 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 5000+ MHz
  • 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 4500+ MHz
  • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4400+ MHz
  • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000+ MHz
• Supports Dual-Channel mode
• Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory
• Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)

1. Please refer www.msi.com for more information on compatible memory

You could use faster dimms with XMP, which in practice might cause your CPU to run hotter. I'm not sure if anyone actually does run faster RAM on it, you would have to buy 4000mhz-5000mhz dimms which probably aren't cheap. Which might be a boost - people don't always specify their exact build when they are boasting of their fps so you can't ever really be sure what they've done when the info is spotty and you aren't sure technically.

Themaltake toughpower gf1

Tier C (lo priority units) recommended for cheap/mid lo end systems:

• Thermaltake | Toughpower GF [no numbers] =>750W [2] [without number] / GF2 ARGB / GX2 / European Gold =>750W / Russian Gold GF1 / SFX ['TT Premium Edition']

So folks here would recommend a tier A power supply for a 4090 which is better described as the hi end of the gpu market.

It just seems at the moment you are fortunate that your Tier C power supply was able to cope with a 4090 but maybe you could look at hwinfo power usage and see what's going on there if it looks like it's not really operating at full power or something that could be suspect.

oh and 1080p I think is more CPU bound while 4k is GPU bound so maybe just try to upscale your resolution. Oh so you aren't running at hi rez which is maybe why your GPU isn't running full power and so your power supply has survived so far.

I see. So it’s most likely the power supply. At least I’m hoping that’s what it is. I will check hwinfo next time I’m at my pc. Do you think it could also be the motherboard possibly? It’s quite old and on the cheaper side from what I’ve seen for mobos at around $140 currently I think. Thank you so much for continuing to try to help me figure this out. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

 

[DavidM012]

Think nothing of it! Just run of the mill advice and none too expert the psu tier list is there for all to see. You might also want to check out the overclocking guide, you aren't overclocking but getting the lecture on stress testing and system monitoring isn't a bad idea. Well I found it helpful to understand my pc better.

I think it's just that you're running at 1080p rather than 4k so your game is loading the cpu more than the gpu.

Since your power supply isn't really recommended for a 4090 you might be rolling the dice with it if you simply turn up the resolution and cause the gpu to draw more power.

So just power supply. The core system (mobo board and mem) is ok enough to run the 4090 but obviously not at it's highest capability.

Only buying a more suitable power supply for it obviously is cheaper than a full core system upgrade which you could do later on if you can work with it for a couple of years then there's going to be new generations of cpu so you could wait for new developments but the question is are you happy gaming with it at 4k 60hz for the time being if so, hold off the core system upgrade.

You didn't say what monitor you are using- some might say you actually wasted your money on a 4090 if your monitor is only 1080p. You could stand to get a halfway decent 4k monitor to use with your 4090 to get the best experience.

They are on about gaming at 144hz 4k with a 4k monitor on a 4090 - which you'd need 12th or 13th gen intel build to accomplish and since the advice today is to go with a ddr 5 build that also rules out a zen 3 build. Because in five years time you might just be able to economise one more time by transferring ddr 5 dimms bought now, to a new build in 5 years where it may still be relevent until ddr 6 releases towards the end of the decade, whilst ddr 4 is still usable but reaching the end of the path and you couldn't probably re-use it on another build in 5 years.

Well hope it makes sense so it's just pick a power supply it is a bit of a pain to search availability and prices in your area, since units on the psu tier list are sometimes hard to track down, or you could opt for an ATX 3.0 power supply so maybe it would be best to post a question in the power supplies section of the forum - what psu for a 4090 with a 10850k cpu and you'll get some good suggestions.

 

[bezwick]

Think nothing of it! Just run of the mill advice and none too expert the psu tier list is there for all to see. You might also want to check out the overclocking guide, you aren't overclocking but getting the lecture on stress testing and system monitoring isn't a bad idea. Well I found it helpful to understand my pc better.

I think it's just that you're running at 1080p rather than 4k so your game is loading the cpu more than the gpu.

Since your power supply isn't really recommended for a 4090 you might be rolling the dice with it if you simply turn up the resolution and cause the gpu to draw more power.

So just power supply. The core system (mobo board and mem) is ok enough to run the 4090 but obviously not at it's highest capability.

Only buying a more suitable power supply for it obviously is cheaper than a full core system upgrade which you could do later on if you can work with it for a couple of years then there's going to be new generations of cpu so you could wait for new developments but the question is are you happy gaming with it at 4k 60hz for the time being if so, hold off the core system upgrade.

You didn't say what monitor you are using- some might say you actually wasted your money on a 4090 if your monitor is only 1080p. You could stand to get a halfway decent 4k monitor to use with your 4090 to get the best experience.

They are on about gaming at 144hz 4k with a 4k monitor on a 4090 - which you'd need 12th or 13th gen intel build to accomplish and since the advice today is to go with a ddr 5 build that also rules out a zen 3 build. Because in five years time you might just be able to economise one more time by transferring ddr 5 dimms bought now, to a new build in 5 years where it may still be relevent until ddr 6 releases towards the end of the decade, whilst ddr 4 is still usable but reaching the end of the path and you couldn't probably re-use it on another build in 5 years.

Well hope it makes sense so it's just pick a power supply it is a bit of a pain to search availability and prices in your area, since units on the psu tier list are sometimes hard to track down, or you could opt for an ATX 3.0 power supply so maybe it would be best to post a question in the power supplies section of the forum - what psu for a 4090 with a 10850k cpu and you'll get some good suggestions.

Got it. Gonna make a post right now asking about PSU’s. I currently only have a 1080p monitor but was planning to upgrade it anyways because I heard the same things you’re telling me. Thanks again man!

 

[--SID--]

Thermaltake GF1 is Tier A https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

Is the motherboard BIOS fully up to date?
XMP of the RAM is enabled?

 

[DavidM012]

oh whoops. So yes just upgrade your monitor to 4k then and run at a higher resolution. Does the 4000 series have dsr factors?

Your power supply is tier A some still might prefer 1000w but maybe you can increase your resolution without imperiling the power supply.

 

[bezwick]

Thermaltake GF1 is Tier A https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

Is the motherboard BIOS fully up to date?
XMP of the RAM is enabled?

Haven’t updated BIOS since I got the motherboard, which was about 3 years ago. I heard it was risky or something so I guess I just avoided it. XMP isn’t enabled however but I’ll enable that. Would you recommend updating the BIOS? Thank you.

 

[--SID--]

Would you recommend updating the BIOS?

Yes, you have to update.

 

[DavidM012]

bios updates are mostly risky in dubious power conditions because the flash eprom would be corrupted if there was a power cut if was interrupted mid-flash but most of the time it's fine. Also you want a decent usb drive and they generally recommend not to use any windows utilities to update the bios but use a flash drive to load the new bios according the manual or website instructions.

So you could load the bios from within the bios, bios update page or if you have flashback just power off insert the usb with the proper and properly named bios file on it and press the flashback button.

XMP off is a performance hit if your memory is running slower could explain some of the low fps at 1080p but, 1080p is still more cpu bound than 4k so you could just test it by going to nvidia control panel/manage 3d settings/dsr factors and enable that and then all the higher resolutions should be available in your games.

DSR downscales higher resolutions to your monitor should have it on a 4000 series? So you can check to see if your fps is within expectations at 4k.