PC restarts randomly regardless of activity

[haroon86]

Hi,

Recently I encountered a problem on my desktop PC, where it just restarts extremely randomly. Before I describe the issue further, here are my specs:

CPU: i5 4690k
Motherboard: MSI Z97 Gaming 5 (Upgraded to latest available BIOS since last year)
GPU: MSI GTX 970 (Upgraded to latest drivers from about a month ago)
RAM: Kingston Hyper X 8GB RAM
PSU: Seasonic G650
OS: Win 10 64 bit

More description of the problem:
So it first started when I was randomly using the PC for work, had youtube on the side open etc., and the PC just restarts. I thought it was a one time thing, but then it kept doing that continuously for an hour! By continuously I mean: The PC starts > Goes to windows boot screen | Or sometimes goes to login screen | sometimes I am able to login and it loads desktop | Sometimes it does not even get to the windows screen > And just restarts. This cycle keeps repeating. And it is so random to the point that while sometimes restarts happen continuously, other times it might run well for a couple of hours, then restart once. At other times it runs for a couple of hours, then goes to a cycle of restarts.

Things I have tried (and further notes & clues on the issue maybe):

• 
  ■ Tried switching ram slots. Worked for about an hour, then problem persists
  ■ Tried connecting PSU to different power source, no improvement.
  ■ Tried testing PSU with a Power supply checker, all readings seem good and on point. (Except the -12V reading reads 11.6, not sure if that's a problem, please advice)
  ■ Tried disconnecting the PSU wires completely from different components and attaching them back (worked for a couple of hours, then problem persists)
  ■ Tried cleaning any dust in the desktop, cleaning fans etc. No improvement.
  ■ Checking on CPU temperatures, all seem normal within the 40-55 degree range, as they have been for 2-3 years now
  ■ Checked GPU temperatures and behaviour. All normal too. Even tried gaming, no issues (when it was working and not restarting for some hours)
  ■ Tried resetting all bios settings to default. Just in case. Although I hadn't made any changes to BIOS in the first place.
  ■ Tried going to safe mode, restarted there as well.
  ■ Ran windows 10 memory diagnostic, it returned no errors.

More details and thoughts:

• 
  ■ I wanted to refresh windows as the repair feature in windows 10 had that option. Thought maybe if I refresh things might be better. But while I was navigating the startup repair menu, the PC restarted in between too.
  ■ Even when I left it idle on BIOS, it restarted
  ■ Restarted in safe mode too
  ■ All this began on a morning when I updated my rivatuner and afterburner to latest versions. Although I managed to uninstall those completely and the issue is still there, so not sure if its due to that.
  ■ I am not able to do much which involves software as the PC just restarts randomly, so I can't do things like refresh windows, run some memory or other diagnostic tools, system restore, etc. Even if I manage to do one of these things, and it felt that the PC now runs fine, it would restart after a while
  ■ Temperatures on all components seem normal. There was no hint of overheating which caused the restart.
  ■ I suspected PSU, but then if PSU tester shows everything is okay (except the 11.6 [read above]), then PSU can't be the issue right?
  ■ I am currently still checking if any of my friends have a spare PSU that I could test on, haven't found any yet.
  ■ I live in Malaysia, so an RMA for seasonic would take around 1-2 months to receive a new one..

It's extremely frustrating and I have tried so many things but it seems to not work. Any help or clues or similar cases where you might have reached a solution, would be much appreciated. If some one has got a list of other things I should check for/try in such a scenario, that'd help too (Is there a link which has such a list? Couldn't find any..).This is my main work PC too, so its quite critical that I solve this asap.


Thanks a lot

 

[Sedivy]

11.6 is within 5% tolerance levels.You mention cpu 40-55 range...is this on idle?
Open event viewer in windows and check critical events around time of reboots, write out event ID and description.
Try pulling one of memory sticks out, then starting up, see if it still happens.

 

[haroon86]

The temperature is on normal usage, Idle its a bit lower.
I can't open event viewer anymore as it keeps restarting, so I am unable to login even. I just tried and now the restarts seem a bit less random. The PC boots up, and after 10-15 seconds, just restarts, regardless of the screen I am in. It could be BIOS, wndows logo, startup repair menu etc. Now the restarts are like 100% in this time range and happen all the time.

I have only 1 memory stick. If I pull that out and restart, it wouldn't start right?

 

[Sedivy]

Yeah never mind on that then.
If you open up the side panel on the computer when you boot (have your mobo manual handy), are there any flashing lights? Anything orange or red during boot?

 

[haroon86]

Yeah it has the usual red lights, sound blaster logo etc. There is an LED showing temperatures and it also behaves as normal. There is an MSI led that is supposed to light up with blue color in case there is an issue and it would show a debug code where the temperature is. But that is not happening to me, no blue lights etc, so no debug mode, also seems fine.

 

[zoltan.boese]

Have you run a RAM test?

 

[haroon86]

I ran the windows memory diagnostic tool which tests ram mainly and it says the memory is all fine.

 

[haroon86]

Another update, I have just cleared my CMOS too, as in removed the cmos battery and attached it again and start. It sets defaults and then the restart problem is still there. So that didn't solve it as well

 

[haroon86]

Also I tried running memtest86, but because the pc keeps restarting every time, it even restarts in between running that test. In fact it restarted just a few seconds into memtest

 

[Sedivy]

Ok, is there another computer nearby? That you could swap memory with?
Since it's happens even with bios, it's likely an issue with hardware. It was fine for a while so incompatibility all of a sudden would be strange. It can actually get through a boot, so all components at least power up but something is unstable.
Have you plugged the whole thing into a different wall plug recently? Have you changed locations? You're sure wiring is ok wherever you are?
Try pulling the gpu. Integrated graphics should kick in. If it is a psu or power issue, taking out gpu should help stabilize it some.
Otherwise turning off all overclocks in bios would be next step but you did cmos reset so that should be fine. My next suspicion would be memory but at this point you're left having to pull individual components and swap something in, to see when it stops happening. This is dependent on you having another computer to exchange components with. Otherwise take it to a repair shop where they'll have plenty of spare stuff to test your rig with.

 

[haroon86]

Thanks a lot for the reply.

Yes I have swapped the memory with a friend. Also borrowed another PSU to test. Even with those things, the result was the same. Kept restarting.
Ok so for about 2yrs+, I have had this PC connected to an extension socket with other things, and it has been working all fine. So it is strange it should suddenly not work imo.

But still, what I did next was to attach the psu cable directly to a wall socket instead of an extension shared with other things. With this, the restarts suddenly have become less frequent. Meaning, instead of restarting every time and every 20 seconds or so, it is currently restarting every 10-15 mins. Not sure if this is the main issue or solution, that the extension was messed up and connecting directly to wall socket would solve it. Coz if it would solve it, why does it still restart every 10-15 mins right? Going to do more testing on the same config for now, i.e., while attached to wall socket. But I think if that was the issue, attaching to wall socket should basically solve it not restart it again eventhough less frequently right?

So lets say the extension and unstable power socket was the issue, what is the solution to it then? Would buying one of the high end extensions and using those solve it? Something like this: http://www.belkin.com/my/p/P-F9G826-3M;jsessionid=59407E85BE76B1B290E24E2D5616EDA8/ (Would this be better than even connecting directly to wall socket?)

I guess if it keeps restarting even on wall socket then the only option then remaining is to take it to a repair shop. That'll be last resort I guess..

Please let me know your thoughts on the above. thanks!

 

[zoltan.boese]

Thanks a lot for the reply.

Yes I have swapped the memory with a friend. Also borrowed another PSU to test. Even with those things, the result was the same. Kept restarting.
Ok so for about 2yrs+, I have had this PC connected to an extension socket with other things, and it has been working all fine. So it is strange it should suddenly not work imo.

But still, what I did next was to attach the psu cable directly to a wall socket instead of an extension shared with other things. With this, the restarts suddenly have become less frequent. Meaning, instead of restarting every time and every 20 seconds or so, it is currently restarting every 10-15 mins. Not sure if this is the main issue or solution, that the extension was messed up and connecting directly to wall socket would solve it. Coz if it would solve it, why does it still restart every 10-15 mins right? Going to do more testing on the same config for now, i.e., while attached to wall socket. But I think if that was the issue, attaching to wall socket should basically solve it not restart it again eventhough less frequently right?

So lets say the extension and unstable power socket was the issue, what is the solution to it then? Would buying one of the high end extensions and using those solve it? Something like this: http://www.belkin.com/my/p/P-F9G826-3M;jsessionid=59407E85BE76B1B290E24E2D5616EDA8/ (Would this be better than even connecting directly to wall socket?)

I guess if it keeps restarting even on wall socket then the only option then remaining is to take it to a repair shop. That'll be last resort I guess..

Please let me know your thoughts on the above. thanks!

I would rather recommend examining the electrical wires in the house. I am afraid you do not simply have ripples, but short outages. You were better of with a uninterruptible power supply (UPS) unit. It costs much, but gives you enough time to save your work an shut down the computer as intended.
Read into this thread: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2865694/ups-uninterruptible-power-supply-desktop-screen.html

 

[haroon86]

But if there was an issue in electrical wires, wouldnt it mess up with other appliances etc. as well? How come its only the PC being affected? Also, I don't won the house, live in a condominium haha. So not sure how to check all electrical wiring, specially, since its been working fine for everything else in the house except the PC, and even for the PC, until 2 days ago, its been working well without issues for 3 years non stop..hmm.. so confusing

Also the direct power socket also gave me restarts again, so connected back to the extension, now its again stable for few minutes before giving restarts.. this issue is super random and I have no clue where to look anymore sigh.. maybe will have to take to computer repair shops rt?

 

[zoltan.boese]

But if there was an issue in electrical wires, wouldnt it mess up with other appliances etc. as well? How come its only the PC being affected? Also, I don't won the house, live in a condominium haha. So not sure how to check all electrical wiring, specially, since its been working fine for everything else in the house except the PC, and even for the PC, until 2 days ago, its been working well without issues for 3 years non stop..hmm.. so confusing

Also the direct power socket also gave me restarts again, so connected back to the extension, now its again stable for few minutes before giving restarts.. this issue is super random and I have no clue where to look anymore sigh.. maybe will have to take to computer repair shops rt?

Maybe it is only the one socket affected. If your computer works fine in another apartment, you can use that later with an UPS. Your PC power supply should have surge protection, but as you have seen it. that only protects against voltage peaks and oscillation, not against shorter or longer outages.

 

[Sedivy]

First, even in an apartment you have several circuits. You'll have fuse box somewhere for these. Depending on how much load is on each circuit, some circuits may be overloaded and be experiencing power fluctuations (like when you plug many power hungry appliances all in one room). This is why I'm saying try plugging it into different rooms in the condo (usually circuits go by rooms), to try and find one which is less overloaded. Though technically overloading should trip the fuse on the circuit, I don't know how well wiring is done in your place, and how much wiggle room there is before the fuse blows.
All appliances will in fact be affected but not to the same amount. Your coffee machine and your computer have very different requirements and your coffee maker has no delicate circuitry. So it is relatively resistant to power fluctuations whereas your computer will suffer greatly. Same should happen to other electronics. TV, home theatre, audio system, even some lights will be affected. Again if only one circuit is affected or overloaded, you might not see it in every room so you might not have noticed.
If you're unsure if you have both a wiring and a computer problem, take your computer to a family or friend's place and plug it in there. if it's stable, you know it's your wiring. Power fluctuations will also over time weaken the psu, so it also might be dying in your case, in addition to continuing power fluctuation from the wall so it might be a compound issue now. Double check this.

I agree with uninterruptible power supply unit but that won't cure power issues, it'll just protect your components and help you shut down in an orderly manner but you'll still have to shut down each time fluctuation happens (assuming it's severe enough and it sounds like it is in your case). I'd rather just get it on a less loaded circuit, and get a surge protector or if you have the $$, the ups.
I don't know what the rules are for a condo, but you'll need to have someone take a loot at your wiring professionally, just so you spare yourself expense of comptuers and other electronics dying on you down the road.

 

[haroon86]

Hi all,

Ok a few updates. Past few days I have been trying different things to find the cause, or the solution to the issue. No leads yet!

- I tried applying new thermal paste to CPU, no difference
- I tried starting the pc only with main windows hdd and ram n cpu, then with more hdds and with gpu etc.. it restarted in all cases (sometimes the restart was after an hour+ n other times it was within minutes or seconds. No consistency or pattern
- Even tried taking my entire PC to a friend's house, and running it there to see if it still happens. Coz if its an issue with power in my house, it should be okay in other houses rt? The friend's place is in a different bldg and town. Still no results. It restarted there too. I don't think it can be wiring issue because then why would it restart in others' places.
- Even managed to update the gpu drivers in one of those times where it was on for abt 45 mins, didnt solve the issue.
- Also got a high end surge protector extension at my place and connected my pc and everything in it. No difference, the issue still happened.

This is the worst and the most clueless issue I have ever faced for my PC. I have 0 clues as to what could be the problem and where to look for a solution.

The next tried I am going to do are:
1. Grab a friend's spare motherboard (similar line), and try fitting all my components on it and see if it has any issues. Except the cpu as his motherboard is an amd one and mines intel. But if that solves the issue, then that means its an issue with my motherboard right?
2. Another thing I am also gna try is to put in all components from the friend's motherboard (except cpu), to mine and see if it restarts.
3. And finally, since all parts would be out anyways, I might try breadboarding.

Am I missing anything else? Any advice? Please let me know if you guys have got any other clues...This thing is super frustrating as of now..

Thanks a lot!

 

[Sedivy]

The thing is I fried my psu after a while in place with shitty wiring so it could be that your psu is damaged at this point as well. Though I wouldn't expect the randomness you're seeing with restarts. Typically, the more load you put on it, the faster it should shut down or give you issues.
I agree with your troubleshooting. Even with your friend's cpu, you should be able to then narrow down your issue to either your cpu or your mobo, if you substitute everything else with components from his system, with your mobo being the more likely suspect. Likewise if you can get his mobo and cpu into your system with no issues. That way you can save yourself the expense of someone doing all that work for you, and in the end just swap the component that's giving you issues.

 

[haroon86]

Ok I have got some new unexpected updates on this.

So I breadboarded my mobo.

- First test, connected cpu, psu, ram and ran the pc. It ran for a couple of hours, no issues.
- Then added display via integrated gfx, no restarts
- Then added the hdd with windows on, added mouse and kyb etc. Used the pc for about 9 hours, no issues and no restarts. Worked normally.
- Then finally added the gpu in, and have connected to monitor via the gpu hdmi display. This has been running normally for 10 hours, no issues.

What the above then tells me, that I think none of the components might be a problem, coz otherwise why would they all run normally outside the case?

So does that mean the case itself is causing the restarts? I mean maybe when the whole thing is inside the case, it causes some kind of static electricity or shorts the restart button of the case or something? As the restart by the case would also be a hard restart and could be done anytime, which matches my restart patterns. It would also match the pattern of why the issues in the beginning "seemed" power related?
So far it looks like it might be the casing (CM Storm Enforcer), as everything works normally outside the casing.

So if that's the case, can some one guide me on how do I go about troubleshooting and diagnosing casing issues? Like I would prefer finding out which part of the casing is that which is causing the restarts. Are there any guides for this? Anything to check step by step for casing related issues like this?
When in casing, My mobo was in proper btw, connected to the golden things properly and then screwed in tight etc.

Thanks

 

[zoltan.boese]

Can it be that you scratched off the isolation somewhere on your motherboard? Can you check the power cables running from the PSU for isolation problems.
Unless you have electrical conductor materials touching with/inside the PC case you would not have that issue.
I am looking forward for you updates and find this mystery rather illuminating. I hope it will end happy.

 

[Sedivy]

The checklist that comes to mind is http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-1893016/post-system-boot-video-output-troubleshooting-checklist.html
but I can't think of anything beside mobo standoff issues (#3 on that list). Or as zoltan mentioned, compromised wiring. Can you send a few pics of the inside of your case?

 

[smorizio]

if the case has a fan controller or led or led fans one of the fans may be bad and pulling more power then it should when it tries to turn on causing the mb to see it as a dead short and shut down to save the mb.

 

[haroon86]

Hey guys, Sorry I forgot to update on this.
After I did bread boarding, the issue was somehow solved and the PC has been working normally since then.
I am unsure what the cause or the exact issue was still, because I just dis-assembled everything, re-assembled it back, and its working.

Anyways, thanks a lot for all the help.

 

[Cunningcory]

I'm having this exact same problem after upgrading my motherboard and CPU, only breadboxing does not help. I was really hoping there would be a solution at the end of this thread