PCI-E 2.0 x16 GTX 260 on PCI-E 1.0 MBoard?

[Gneus]

Hi everybody, I'm getting a feeling that I screwed myself up pretty bad. Let me clarify.

About 3 weeks ago I got I purchased new components for a new PC built. I'm reusing CD burner and tower only. Running Win7 64bit and backup OS - XP SP2, 4gb 1066 ram, Intel e6300, WD 640GB SataII 32mb cache, 630W PS.

I got GTX 260 OC 896MB by MSI (link if you care to see it). The card has PCI-E 2.0 x16. My new video card arrived 5-6 days ago, but just today I got around gaming with it for the first time.

I noticed that games like COD4 which is over 2 years old game runs kind of slow and with serious lag sometimes. I can't say that I like the performance that the card delivers right now. Batman Arkham Asylum also has some lag at different moments. I do NOT think that the card is bad though.

I thought, it might be driver issue, but nobody really have complained from the new nvidia driver (191.07).

I took a closer look a my MBoard (link here) and it turns out it is PCI-E 1.0 x16 only!!!!!, NOT PCI-E 2.0 x16.

Is it possible such serious a lag in gaming to be due to my board PCI-E 1.0 bandwidth?

Is my MBoard limiting my video card's full potential?


The good news for right now are that I can still return the Mobo and exchange it for PCI-E 2.0 x16 compatible.

Should I do that? Should I change the Mobo while I can?

I will appreciate your comments and suggestions.

 

[rockyjohn]

I don't think it is likely the HD. But what HD do you have? If you go into Device Manager and click on the HD listing - it will likely give you a "number" starting with "ST". Google that number and you will get some sights listing the drive showing the more common 7200.xx number. What is it? You can check that number on the THG HD charts - might have to go back to an older one to find it -or not. On my Dell I still have a 5 year old Seagate 160 GB drive - 7200.7. While the newer drives report a lot faster statistics in many areas - this old drive still beats most of them on the "Workstation Benchmark" test - which seems to me to be the best indicator of actual performance.


Please run the tests at PC Pit Stop - they check a lot of things.

After that, and barring any insight from someone else - you need to run those Sandra tests to isolate the problem, if possible. But I am not that familiar with the tests. Their website might have some directions though.

 

[Gneus]

I got actually Sata-I Hitachi - HDS728080PLA380 (80 GB), NOT Seagate.
The other drive is brand new Western Digital sata-II.

I was thinking of BIOS update. But before that I'll check pc pitstop. Is their service free online? I haven't seen them around here. Do they have actual stores to go to?

BTW I got Sandra, Everest, prime95, 3D mark. Any specific test that is a must?

 

[rockyjohn]

yes it is online and free - pcpitstop.com - sorry I was going to provide a link and did not.

http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcpitstop/default.asp

Either Everest or Sandra is fine for testing after that.

 

[rockyjohn]

Currently i play in xp sp2 because the game crashes in win7 during initial videos.
It is impossible to play even intro. I play batman arkham asylum in win7 and at some points it is choppy there too. COD4 in xp is worse (maybe because of the open sufraces),than batman in win7

Were you saying before that some games play better in XP and some in Win7?
Would you briefly recap how each game plays in each software. Just short decsciption is fine.
And Windows 7 is on the WD drive and XP on the Hitachi?
The stats on the Hitachi say it is SATA II - or actual SATA 3.0 - same thing. Its 8MB buffer is small, but as long as it is working ok it should not be the issue. The PCPitStop test checks HD speed.

So both are boot drives and you know you have them correctly configured to boot to either one?
You said Win7 is 64 bit. Is XP 32 bit?
Are you sure you got the correct video drivers - different ones for Win7 64 bit and XP 32 bit?

 

[rockyjohn]

If you go to 0 for AA and AF - does that affect the play much on any of the games?

When you go to Device Manager, does it show all devices are working OK? On the device manager menu window, here will be a yellow question mark or some red mark if they are not.

What memory do you have - brand and model - newegg link if possible. Did it come off the mobo recommended list?

 

[rockyjohn]

I found these CPU benchmarks for the e6300 which seem to indicate it is capable.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2802&p=10

The charts are three years old and you have a much better video card so I would expect better performance - unless someone a new faster video card overwhelms the CPU - but I would not think so. Or unless the newer games - and the ones you play - require more of the CPU.

If the PCPitStop test don't reveal anything, you might also try contacting the video card maufacturer. Do they have a phone number to call? Even if not a video card problem, they may have experience with others working similar issues and might know what to look at.

It is possible that it is just a bad video card. I got a bad one from BFG once. In my case the screen was blank. After a few minutes of troubleshooting with them they pronounced the card bad and had me RMA it and sent a new one. If you can call them, be sure to have a list ready of all the things you have already tried to save time and show you have done due diligence - also to not let them get off by making suggestions about things you have already checked out.

 

[Gneus]

Yeah, pretty much COD4 would NOT play in Win7-64bit, while the Batman game would be decent, with few hickups here and there....

Yes, Win7-64bit is on new WD caviar black 32mb cache. Batman game is there too. COD4 too but is unplayable.

Yes, I have WINXP 32bit SP2 on the old Hitachi. Hitachi I believe is sata I.....its 5yrs old drive.
Actually says HDS728080xxxxx SATA. (neither I or II, just SATA and nothing follows)

Yes I have them properly configured and they boot fine every time, both.

I'm currently in Win7. I installed driver 191.07 from nvidia.com

There are some huckups on batman(win7) but I think the game is maxed out(AA and AF). For COD4 in Win7, I can't get to gameplay before I get stuck on a frame.

Device manager is fine, no conflicts or missing driver.

My memory is Patriot Viper this is the >> link << or Newegg here

I believe I checked before buying it and it was there. I remember looking at supported RAM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One think caught my attention. Win7 recognizes both my drives as ATA drives....hmmm...maybe I shoud check BIOS settings on drives. In Device Manager I have both my drives listed as:
HDS72008080PLA380 ATA Device
WDC WD6401AALS-00L3B2 ATA Device

BTW I just ran another 3Dmark right now in win7 and score is 11131points.

 

[rockyjohn]

Why would COD4 play better in XP when Win7 with 64 bit should be faster and the game is on the same new, presumably faster drive as Win 7?

You said that you installed the 191.07 driver - but did not answer the question - are you sure you intalled the Win7 64 bid version of the driver? The 191.07 driver comes in various versions for different operating systems. A wrong version might work but not work well as in when it does not work as fast as a slower operating system on a slower hard drive.

For COD4 on Win7, I ask again - what happens if you try to play with no AA or AF?

 

[Gneus]

In win7 COD4 bricks immediately in the 1 sec of gameplay with AA and AF @ off. I have to kill it manually and exit. I believe because win7 is beta that is why it happens like that.

Yeah, I have 64-bit driver....it is the same one for vista 64 too - 191.07_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_english_whql.exe

 

[rockyjohn]

Thanks - I hope I don't seem like I am asking too simple of questions or splitting hairs - I am as perplexed as you about what the problem can be - althought probably not as frustrated as you must be - so I am trying to recheck everthing and split the hairs.

I look forward to seeing what PCPitStop finds - if anything.

 

[Gneus]

I understand, i read reviews in newegg of people actually running the same combination of cpu and mobo been very happy with it. As one person stated: he/she was able to use onboard overclocking profile and overclock 20% - a thing that I couldn't do at all. When I attempted OCing profile with 5or 10%, pc didn't post.

I did pcpitstop full test yesterday,as we were exchanging posts. There were few suggestions but nothing that caught my attention.

I got only few days left if I want to exchange cpu, mobo or hd, as they were purchased on 9/20 (same order).
I'm thinking of mobo replacement. Should i consider cpu replacement as well?

Any recomendations on decent but cheap mobo supporting 1066mhz ram?

 

[rockyjohn]

I understand time is short - but I hate to see you get into a cycle of replacing components without knowing which is the culprit. At this point I think the more likely one is the video card. Have you tried another graphics card to see how it works? If you don't have one maybe you can borrow one? [Edit - sorry I fogot that you reported poor results for the 6600GT already]

I think the PCPitStop test checked the CPU and HD and gave you performance scores. Did they pass ok?

Have you reviewed the forum at ASUS to see if anyone had similar problems? Posted on their forum?
Can you call MSI about the graphics card? (No need to wait for responses on the forum post - if you do one - before calling MSI. They might have experience dealing with similar issues - you just might not want to tell them you tried the other graphics card and got poor results with it too.

Just a thought - since I have not used 64 bit software - but are the versions of the games you have compatible with 64 bit? (Although that would not explain poor performance on your XP subsystem.)

 

[Gneus]

I installed XP on my WD SataII drive just to make sure all posibilities are covered. I did another 3dmark test. 6038pts. That is on WIN XP sp2 with MSI GTX260, 4gb ram, fresh install.


Couldn't find anything bad or problematic about ASUS mobo. Don't remember pcpitstop test score now, but nothing to worry about. I'll test switching and removing ram for any changes later. I will call msi too, but I don't think card is faulty.

 

[dndhatcher]

Any chance you have a friend with a decent PC that would let you benchmark his system then drop your 260 in and benchmark it to remove the possibility of a bad GPU?

Also do you have the exact MSI model you linked? There is an older 260 with less cores that runs slower than the newer ones.

 

[Gneus]

I believe I found the problem. It is the famous among ASUS (and some Gigabyte) boards BIOS bug >>[PEG Force x1]<<

So apparently my video card is using not 16 but 1 lane only.


dndhatcher, I tried my older 6600GT with the current board and the results were pretty bad again, so this proved to me that my MSI gtx 260 is fine.

I'll post when I find a fix for the [PEG Force x1] bug.

 

[rockyjohn]

Also please let us know how you found out about the bug issue

 

[Gneus]

It is known as PCI Express x1 Bug. I was looking at the setting in the BIOS, going line by line and making sure everything is set correctly. Apparently ASUS, decided to throw bunch of terms like PEG, PCI, IDG, etc there without trying to clarify what is what, and what does what. After googling half the abbreviations I hit a line saying:

PEG Force x1 [enable][disable]. I looked up that line and it all came to me right then.

Detailed article on the subject I read is this one: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=522&pgno=1


Although my board is not listed as one having that bug, obviously has it, because even if I choose to disable - PEG Force x1 [disabled], it is still enabled 100%. My CPU-Z proves it too.

The solution to the issue described in the article above involves access to menus and options in BIOS that my ASUS P5KPL-CM board don't have. Therefore I'm not able to fix it at this time.

After 3 days of total frustration, I won't try it. I called newegg and I'm sending it back today.

Meanwhile I'm ordering another board within $50-90 range.

I'm actually eager to try GTX 260 with my old cpu - AMD 3000+ and board. )

Thank you rockyjohn for the support. I appreciate it very much!

 

[rockyjohn]

Well I am glad you found the problem and can move on.

Just for my edification - how does CPU-Z prove that is the problem?

 

[Gneus]

Cpu-z says something like PCI express: Width: x1 Max Available Witdh: x16.

It is something like that. I cant see it right now because i'm not at home and i'm posting off my phone

 

[rockyjohn]

Thanks. I found it on mine. Mine just both report the x16 - not seeing a difference I did not appreciate what it was telling me.

Good catch. I guess sometimes we don't realize the value of all the tools we have.

 

[Gneus]

Yeah I know. Probably among all the tests I've ran for the last coulpe of days i should have seen it in Sandra or Everest, but ....
I called MSI tech support and spoke to a guy explaining what was happening. He was pretty cool, very knowledgable and helpfull. He predicted that my board is running pcie at x8 instead x16, and he was so close. Definitely pointed me at the right direction. Asus were impossible to reach at that time.
Anyways, contacted newegg for replacement and i have RMA# and prepaid shipping label issued. I'm just going to order new board today. Looking at Asrock this time or maybe MSI.

 

[rockyjohn]

I just got the meaning of your name. Guess I am a little slow - and not one.

Gigabyte has always been my favorite in mobos - especially their UD boards with the extra copper and high end components. How about this one:

GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128380

It is a little more expensive than what you have - but a great board. It uses the same memory you have - although I am not sure if it will work with your memory - an issue with any different board you select. It also has 4 memory slots to make it easy to add more later - if you wish - but does not have integrated video - although you should not need that. Check the rest of the specs and see if it matches with your system. And it is PCIe 2.0.

 

[jerreece]

My 2 Cents.

I'm using 2 GTX 260 Core 216's on an old 680i LT SLI board. It has 2 x16 PCI-E 1.0 slots. Handles SLI fine, so I'm doubting your PCI-E 1.0 slot is limiting a single GTX 260.

I'd lean toward a CPU limitation, or a latency problem if you're talking about multiplayer. Poor latency in online games can kill your FPS.

 

[Guest]

Hi! Actually the latest drivers for NVIDIA are crap. I downloaded them and then a day later rolled back my drivers because of the issues with it. It's a nightmare over on the NVIDIA tech support boards with people having so many issues with the latest roll out.

As to the 2.0> 1.0 slot, I'm trying to find that out as well. It's the main thing that is holding up my latest tower build, I was looking at reusing the MOBO but it's only 1.0 and havent really found any information about how much of a change 2.0 is from 1.0. I know 2.0 cards can run in 1.0 but I don't want to gimp myself if it's a major difference.

 

[Gneus]

Rockyjohn, i was actually looking at this board. Problem is that before i built this current system I bulit amd based system with Gigabyte udXX amd-board and mobo's lan connectivity turn out very poor. It was not connecting unless i plug and unplug it 20 times each restart. It was defective so i returned it and went intel and asus.

Why do you say that my patriot viper ram wount work with it?
That ram is not in the supported list of asus but works just fine even overclocked.
Tha same ram worked fine with gigabyte and amd also.