PCI-E x16 25W limit, GPU needs max 30W - AMD R7 240 in dc7700 small factor, please help

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
X

xdon82

Honorable
Nov 25, 2013
14
0
10,510
Hello
I have HP dc7700 small factor computer
PSU model: DPS-240FB - 240W I found out it's Delta Inc product
V12 11.5A VCPU
V12 7.5A


E6600 processor [max 65W]
4 x 1 GB DDR2 RAM
1x HDD regular SATA
1x DVD-ROM
2x about 80mm FANs

I want to upgrade my GPU
I found interesting new card, perhaps it's not powerful, but not bad
it's AMD R7 240 - Max TDP 30W

So, probably PSU can handle it
but
on the producent site there is terrible information: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12543_ca/12543_ca.pdf
PAGE 11

Power for PCI-E x16 is limited to 25W

and I have 3 questions:
1. is it only kinda recommendation not to exceed 25W due to weak PSU

2. if it's limited , so in which way ? by software [bios] hardware?
any possibility to gget additional 5W

3. what will happen if I put 30W GPU into 25W PCI-E x16 slot ?

any ideas what to do?
only 5W to be happy 😉
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Brian, hopefully you are still listening to this necro.

I've got a very similar problem, but in many ways very different. I actually do have a 25w PCIe port.

I am trying to install a video card into a non-graphics port, any-other expansion limited 25w PCIe port. This is on a Dell PE 6850 Server.

This slot, not being designed for graphics, does not support 75w. I have had luck putting a graphics card into a Dell PE 2850 servers, but the PE2850 lacks the 25w limit, it also lacks the micro-code necessary to install Windows 10, but that's a different problem.

I do have unlimited power available by external plug, but the card itself needs to be willing to negotiate PCIe start-up on 25w. My HD 5670, 5770, 7950 all fail, though all work in the PE 2850.

Are you aware of any cards that are willing to 'settle' for 25w at startup yet still provide some gaming oomfh when supplied with oceans of external power?

I can't verify a PCIe 1x 25w card will work but I'll soon end up buying one just to see. That won't suit my need for speed, but it will prove a graphics card is supported in theory. I'd rather a better solution and hope you can help.

Thanks
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I don't think that will work without some other way of powering the card. It may be possible by using a powered expansion riser however this can be difficult if you don't have a good mounting position. A lot of people that do/did cryptomining BTC etc. used powered PCI-E risers for installing extra GPUs.

I would need to know what size of PCI-E slot you have. but an example of a 1X - 16X powered riser is here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SuperHash-Express-Powered-Bitcoin-Litecoin/dp/B00HLMZ87U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808506&sr=8-2&keywords=x1+pci-e+16x+riser
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
My research is suggesting a powered riser card too. I've ordered a powered 16x to 16x cable and a powered 1x to 16x to hedge my bets. I'll find somewhere to mount it, a Dell PE 6850 is nothing if not spacious and I'm not afraid to do modifications as needed.

The Dell uses all PCIe 8x 25w slots. The first operates at 8x, the others all operate at 4x. The backs have been melted off (blowtorch and hot screwdriver has worked well for me) to allow 16x cards to slot properly. All this has been validated with my Dell PE 2850, but that system uses a 75w PCIe.

Hopefully those 49ers (miners) knew what they were doing. I'll check back next week to let you know if it worked.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thank you for all anwsers above. I just upgraded my HP 6005 Pro SFF with an Geforce 750 Ti and it works perfectly :)
(model GV-N75TOC-2GL)
Note that I did have to change a bios setting, the PCI-e x16 slot was in x8+displayport mode, the PC did not boot past the initial bios message, nor could I acces the bios setup screen. In x16 mode everything was OK.

The HP documentation does say that the PCI-e x16 slot is limited to 25W. However, the same motherboard (type: 531966-001) and bios is used in the non-SFF chassis, and there the slot is limited to 75W (as it should). So I have to agree to americanbrian that this is only an PCI spec half height card issue, not a limitation of the SFF PC. :)

The power supply is 240W. The system uses under full processor load WITHOUT the nvidia card (prime number stress test) 136W.
This means that I have about 100W spare for my graphics card. I assume the card is max. 75W as this is the PCIe maximum for graphic cards without an extra power connection.

Further. on this power supply is a sticker which says:
12V generic rail: 14A max.
12V cpu rail: 12A max.
Total load of all rails may not exceed 240W.

This means that power supply has a seperate rail for the CPU, so most of the 12V generic rail is available for my new graphics card. as this is max. 75W (75W / 12V = 6.25A, not even close to 14A) this power supply should handle this new graphics card easily.

Playing a game (Metro 2033) the pc usage is about 150W. Despite that the graphics card does say it needs a 400W power supply, my 240W is more than enough.

Please note that this does not say that any power supply does work, the 12V rail must have enough power to power both the CPU and the graphics card. Cheap power supplies may have enough power on the 5V/3.3V rail, but lack the power on the 12V rail.

I hope my 2c can help anybody out there!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dear Noormanman,

I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
What do you think?
Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

Thank you for your help in advance!

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dear Noormanman,

I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
What do you think?
Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

Thank you for your help in advance!

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dear Noormanman,

I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
What do you think?
Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

Thank you for your help in advance!






 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nameske, my PC works perfect. There is a HP problem that the PC cannot recover from a sleep state, but I disabled power saving in windows 10 to 'solve' that. As for the PCI bios setting, this option does not show in my bios anymore. It is probably hidden as the x16 card is already in my system and claimed the x16 bus. As your GT220 is also working, you are good.
The 'resource hungry' games I played are XCOM enemy unknown, Metro 2013 and heroes of might and magic III HD edition.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thank you for your reply, noormanman.
In your 6005, what kind of AMD CPU do you use?
Do you recommend to upgrade the CPU or RAM to a better one?
Thank you for your help
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
This is THE perfect thread for me. I asked a similar question today in a thread. I have the HP6300 Pro, with i5-2500. It said 25W for the PCI. But with this thread, I think it means a low profile GTX 750 ti would actually work?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nameske, I have the Phenom II X4 B97 3.2GHz processor and 4GB ram. You will have to make a choice:
1) expand your exististing system. The GTX750 will definitly boost your game performance and you can play modern games. Cost: ~130 euro. A new processor or more ram will not make much difference I think, as most work is done by the video card. Mind that a fast 2-core processor might be better than a slow 4-core processor, depending which game you play. If you can get a fast processor cheap, why not. If you have memory slots free and can get memory cheap, why not. (make sure the memory you buy is supported by the system). But overall I do not think it will make games run much faster.
2) buy a second hand minitower with a decent processor, a good power supply, and windows 7 or higher (so you can upgrade to windows 10). Cost a bit more, but then you can fit an even more powerfull video card.
Having said this, I am happy with my HP 6005 + GTX750Ti
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thank you for your help again.
Exactly the same processor you have that I am thinking of, the Phenom X4 Phenom B97 3.2GHz.
The difference per core isn't that significant (my X2 B28's clock speed is 3.4GHz on paper)
I can also acquire a cheap set of 4*4GB DDR3 1600MHZ rams.
Now, it is gone but sooner or later a second hand low-profile Gigabyte 750ti will appear on my domestic market again.
My last question is about the DIMM sockets.
What do you think, a pair of 8 GB RAM or a quad of RAM (4*4GB) would be better to use in the motherboard? Does the motherboard uses the DIMMs in dual-channel mode in both cases or only if I would fit 2 slots instead of 4?
Maxing out this 6005's maybe not the best idea, won't be a high-end pc anyway but this option is more cost-saving for me at the moment than to upgrade to a completely new rig.
Thank you for your answer in advance!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote

The HP 6005 Pro does not support 8GB ram modules, and probably does not support an 8 chip 4GB ram module.
Make sure you get a 16 chip 4GB module (or an 8 chip 2GB module). My intel system of the same generation refused an 8 chip 4GB module as it did not support that modern ram chip. See also http://www2.corsair.com/retailer/system_results.aspx?rid=13251&id=839072 for supported modules. Max memory = 4x 4GB for this PC.
Dual channel works when you get a pair of the same modules, and still works if you install a second pair of the same modules. First pair does not need to be the same as the second pair as far as I know.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Very useful information. Thank you for your help, you have just saved me from some torture.
What do you think, is this one is a ,,8 chip" module or a ,,16 chip" one?

http://hardverapro.hu/apro/khx1600c9d3k416gx_kigston_hyper_x/


(4 x 4 GB KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX KINGSTON HYPER X CL 9)

Thank you for your useful helps so far
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Not. The motherboard can supply the needed 75W, and if you would use a more power hungry graphics card then this card will have it's own molex power connectors. You do not need a PCI riser.
As the power supply of the dell 755 is limited (280W), stay away of graphic cards with their own molex connectors unless you upgrade the power supply.

Btw. Do not use two power supplies in one computer system, it will probably get instable if you do not know what you are doing.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Sorry for the necro, but I too have this exact same problem on this exact same machine.

The PCI Express standard seems to state that FULL HEIGHT graphics cards can use up to 75W but the HALF HEIGHT ones are limited to 25W no matter what. I would like to use a GTX 750 Ti with a maximum power draw of 60W but it's a low profile card and I've read that low profile means the same as half height.

What do you think? Is it true that half height GPU-s CAN'T get 75W after all?

Also, even if the standard did state that any GPU can use 75W, could it be possible that since this is an HP proprietary motherboard, they are not following the standard properly or otherwise have hard-limited the x16 slot to 25W due to the cheap construction not being able to handle more than that?

I don't want to fry the motherboard.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


thanks for this. It is very confusing when the motherboard (on the express x16 slot) says 25w max and I hear 75w elsewhere. I assumed that the wattage went up with the version with 1.0 being limited to 25 and 2+ at 75w.

so assuming that I have a low profile case and a 280 w power supply. What is the current best graphics card to use with or without an external power connector?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
the newly launched zotac nvdia gt 1030 2gb ddr 5 (30watt)will it be able to run on my hp 6200prosff pc which is small form factor and power supply smps is 240 watts ?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


probably since we don't know what the current draw is on the power supply. 30 watts is well within the 75 watt limit for PCL express connector.



 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom