PCIe or AGP for upgrade?

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What the site is actually calculating is the continuous use wattage (use a calculator to add it up). The PSUs ratings are for peak wattag and are not designed for continuous use at those levels. A hint is to take a look at the Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) rating. For example, the MTBF on this <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-459&depa=1" target="_new">Enermax Noisetaker 420W model EG425P-VE SFMA 2.0</A> is "greater than 100k hours at 70% of full rated load." So at 70% continuous load it will last greater than 100K hours - in other words at 294W. You would be running the system at 83% load with the 6800 Ultra. That would negatively impact the longevity of the PSU, and leave you little room for usage spikes when components cycle on/off. Modern computers require a lot of juice, expecially high end GPUs! Even with the 500W PSU, you would be running at 70%! Give yourself a little buffer and get the 535W Enermax...

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
I like it alot and would definately have chosen the same mobo if doing it agian. It has been totally stable, and issue free. Only downside was when I first started overclcoking it I hit an early ceiling at first. It was because SATA 1&2 aren't locked. So when overclocking the fsb/cpu, and using an SATA hard drive, you have to use SATA 3 or 4. No big deal though, ONCE you know about it.


Anayway, MSI won me over with this mobo. Enough so I'd by it again and because of great reviews, If going PCI-e would go for the Neo 4 platinum/SLI also.




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Yeah, I think I'm going to go w/ it. Do you use the onboard sound/ethernet at all? I figure they're probably actually better than what I currently have, given how old they are. I've always been sorta wary of integrated stuff, but the nf3 boards seem like they have pretty good quality components.
 
I was looking at some of the MTBF data after I posted that and your recommendations started to make more sense to me. I probably will go w/ the 535W Enermax. I just didn't want to have to spend that much on a power supply. I might end up downgrading to getting A64 3200+ instead of a 3500+, although maybe I should be doing that anyway. Since I don't upgrade very often I like to get the fastest processor I can w/in my price range, but even given a future video card upgrade, maybe the extra 200Mhz aren't worth the extra $100.
 
I'm all about price/performance and I personally don't think the performance between the 3200+ and the 3500+ warrants $100.

What RAM are you planning on getting? Case?

Sometimes it's a hard pill to swallow having to drop that kind of cash on a PSU. It seems like you're not getting a lot of bang out of those bucks. If you haunt these boards a bit you'll realize, that a lot of people are suffering from bad PSUs. Bad can mean a bad decision on capacity of the PSU or faulty generic PSUs. Sometimes it's hard to immediately point it out, but when a good new PSU is installed the problems seem to disappear. You can look at your PSU purchase as being an investment into system reliability and longevity.

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
It has dual gigabit ethernet, so yeah I do use them. I haven't tried the integrated audio though.



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Yeah, I'm torn because part of me just WANTS the 3500+, but the other part of me is telling me I'm being ridiculous.

I'm gonna get the 2x512mb corsair value select. It seems like the best bang for your buck from what I've seen. I'm just keeping my old case. It's just a generic midtower, but it gets the job done.

The more I read up on it, the more it does seem like it's a good investment. And I do always say, spend a little more now, and you'll save later. I've never had any power supply problems personally, but I have a friend who always seems to have parts, including power supplies, fail on him. You have to start thinking that is not just due to bad luck, but to buying inferior hardware.
 
I was actually trying to figure out what the difference between the two ethernet chips is. Is it just different manufacturers but same basic functionality?
 
Keeping the same case isn't a bad idea. I've recycled a few into new systems, too... :smile: Be sure that you have good ventilation in the case and monitor temps to make sure they're not too high.

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
Well, I know I need to clean it out. I've been bad about that. But I've got a couple of fans going in there, and this system has lasted a little over four years of being on almost continuously without any hardware failing, and it's still going strong. And before I switched over to XP, I used to like to say I had the most stable install of 98 I'd ever heard of.

This is actually the first time I've done a major system overhall instead of a complete upgrade. I sort of just want to go all out the more I get into it, but I think I'm going to get a pretty good system for a lot less than I've spent in the past.
 
I'm always amazed at the quality, affordability of a system that an individual can make for himself when he/she does some research and the work. PC companies place a real premium on their knowledge - and I will add that they are right to do it. If someone is not willing/able to do it themselves, then they are paying good money for a valuable service. I'd rather save some money by building my own system - I'm always in need of some more fishing gear! :lol:

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
Well, just being able to hand pick every component in my system makes it worth the hassle for me. Of course it doesn't hurt that you can often save money in the process.
 
Built to your specs by YOU! Of course that usually only leaves you to blame when something goes terribly wrong.

That last sentence sounded like a bad line from a B-grade horror flick. "Jimmie and Betty were enjoying their camping trip at the lake - then soemthing went terrbily wrong!"

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
Yes! Exactly.

So, I think I've probably decided to go w/ the 3200 and maybe do some light overclocking on it. I've never done any overclocking before, but should it be pretty easy to do that w/ the msi neo2 platinum, and will it not have any adverse effect on the lifetime of my hardware?
 
List your final system specs and we'll give a critique. I make no guarantees on whether or not OCing will shorten the life of your system. Logically speaking, pushing a component beyond it's given rating can shorten it's lifetime. The more you push, the more likely it is to shorten the lifespan...

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
Athlon 64 3200+ w/ retail heatsink/fan
MSI K8N neo2 platinum
1GB (2x512) corsair value select cas 2.5
ATI 9600XT 256MB
onboard ethernet
either onboard sound or sb live! value
535W enermax psu

I also have 2 pata hds and 2 case fans.

I mean, I wouldn't be looking to overclock that hard. Just to get a little more out of the 3200 and save some money over the 3500. And, I know it stands to reason that it will shorten the lifespan of a system to a cerain extent, but I guess just want to know that there's a good chance it'll last a few years even w/ light OCing. I'm not looking for a guarantee, because obviously parts can fail even if you run them with their normal specifications.
 
Neo3 platinum you mean? EDIT: NOPE


These A64's run so cool, and not much of a voltage boost is needed to gain some MHz. My 3000+ only does 2.35Ghz, but I just run it at 2.2GHz, which is the same speed as the 3500+. Of course if I bought the 3500+, I'd run it at 2.5 or so GHz, but still a little free performance is a nice thing when temps stay so low and it's totally stable.

That said, unless you are gaming on a high end viedo card, is there really a need to OC? The A64 3200+ at stock speeds will amaze you. Good luck, and enjoy.


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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/14/05 08:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
no, I'm pretty sure I mean <A HREF="http:// http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo2_Platinum&class=mb" target="_new">neo2</A>. I don't think there's such a thing as a neo3. The nforce4 based board is called the neo4.

In any case, I'm just exploring my options. I have thought about the video card bottleneck, and I was thinking I might keep things at stock speeds but try OCing when I upgrade my video card. I just wanted to look into it before I actually purchased anything.

I'm hoping to be blown away after being on this 900Mhz thunderbird for so long. Not that I have any complaints.
 
Well...there is a <A HREF="http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=865PE_Neo3-F&class=mb" target="_new">Neo3</A>, but it won't work with an AMD s939. Anyways, I do think you'll be blown away by the new setup. What about a CDRW, DVDRW or similar device?

Edit: For your links to work, you need to take out the HTTP:// - it is added in automatically.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rugger on 03/12/05 11:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
oh, I never looked at intel motherboards so I had no idea. How odd that they'd name things that way.

Hmm, I was pretty sure I'd taken the http:// out (I noticed that it does that). Oh well.

Oh, I have a DVD drive that I was just going to keep. No CDRW or DVDRW. For some reason I've never gotten one even though I know it could come in handy sometimes. I actually hadn't thought about upgrading, so I don't really know if I'd gain from it performance-wise or not. Maybe I should look into that. I just checked and it looks like you can get dvdrw drives for ridiculously cheap at this point.

Later on I might get that and maybe upgrade my sound to an audigy2 zs or something if I'm not happy with the onboard sound.
 
Dual media, 16XDVDRWs for $55-65! If you were on a tight budget then it'd be something that you could pass on, but it's nice to be able to burn CDs/DVDs from one device...

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
yeah, now that you have me thinking about it I was taking a look at the NEC 3250 as something to get. I can afford it, I just don't know if it's a priority for me right now. But I'm definitely going to think about it. I should join the 21st century in that respect. It's funny, I was thinking of future upgrades of hard drives and my sound card and video card, and I didn't even think of upgrading my dvd drive.
 
It's definitely not a necessity, but is definitely nice to have... :smile:

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
Well, I just ordered the parts. And I think I'll mull it over a bit more and maybe get that dvdrw drive and possibly an audigy 2 zs. Though I've been told it's not worth the money and I should just stick w/ onboard sound.

I've realized that the downside of not getting a new case is that I have no idea what to do with the parts I'll be removing from my case. I spose I could put them in another computer I built at my parents house with an even older machine (p2) inside it. I don't think I've ever thrown away computer parts, so I'm at a loss.

Btw, thanks again for all your help. I've been out of the loop for so long it's been very helpful to get some advice along w/ the reviews I've read.
 
1. You could Ebay them...
2. You could a. Get a better case for your new sytem
b. Get an elcheapo case for the old parts.


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