PCs out of Balance - Need some Help

Page 33 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:M5J4e.1283$lP1.1100@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> 3.5 is schitzophrenic about what warhammers look like, but *real*
>> warhammers should weigh less than batlte axes; the weapons are shorter and
>> the business ends are rather a lot more compact.
>
> Indeed. As I recall, they were effective can-openers.

In GURPS they even count as impaling instead of crushing. Not quite
sure if that was such a good decision, but it gives a good impression
of the size of the head of a warhammer. I think a hammer with a big
heavy head would count as a mace.


mcv.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd68049.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> But that's pretty much the definition of a red herring fallacy: Rhetoric
> that does not support the conclusion but nonetheless serves "to
> intentionally confuse or distract someone else."

IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE ARGUMENT (or distract from the weakness of one's
own propositions).

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> The simple argument quoted above has two lines of attack: one against
>> the argument ["You are wrong"], one against the interlocuter ["You
>> are a moron"]. The second line is ad hominem fallacy, and therefore
>> adds nothing to the argument overall.

Mart van de Wege wrote:
> I'm sorry Bradd, but this *is* wrong.
>
> What you are doing is stretching the 'ad hominem' definition so far
> that it can be applied to any and all personal attacks ....

No, only to personal attacks that assault the interlocutor's credibility
(honesty, competence, etc). Furthermore, the American legal profession
-- a large group of experts on this subject -- appears to agree with me,
according to the sources quoted below.

The San Diego chapter of the Association of Business Trial Lawyers
offers this guideline regarding personal attacks:

A lawyer should avoid personal attacks on all court officers,
including judges and opposing counsel, and should not comment
adversely on the intelligence, integrity, motive or conduct of
judges or opposing counsel, except in the rare circumstance when
such matter is legitimately in issue. Even when the zealous
representation of a client may necessitate allegations of improper
conduct, a lawyer should review such allegations to ensure that they
are justified and supported by the evidence. A lawyer should bear in
mind that ad hominem comments frequently are unpersuasive, increase
the level of personal antagonism, and tend to diminish public
respect for lawyers and the courts.[1]

In short, "ad hominem comments" are only appropriate when they are both
relevant and supportable. The rationale is consistent with my claims
that attacks on the interlocutor have little value but to distract
participants. Judge Loren McMaster offers a similar remark: "Avoid ad
hominem attacks. Do not personally attack opposing counsel. It is
extremely distracting to the court to have open warfare going on between
counsel. It certainly is not helpful to the Court in deciding the
matter."[2] Again, it distracts from the real issues.

That's the very definition of a red herring fallacy, and ad hominem
fallacy is simply a red herring in the form of a personal attack.

Finally, this is more than just a matter of etiquette and ethical
guidelines. Some courts and bar associations levy harsh penalties
against attorneys who make personal attacks "in addition to" their main
arguments. For example:

Another area of interest in this review of ethics professionalism is
when attorneys engage in the assertion of baseless claims,
groundless accusations, and name-calling. In Nachbaur v. American
Transit Insurance Co., a Queens attorney was sanctioned $5,000 for
disparaging remarks made about his adversary in a letter to the
court, plus an additional $5,000 plus attorneys fees for filing a
frivolous appeal.[3]

In this case, you could argue that there was no argument in the first
place, but the source goes on to explain that any personal attack can be
grounds for sanctions:

Calling the judge and opposing attorneys names or making unfounded,
irrelevant, or inappropriate remarks about them seems to be
sanctionable or worthy of discipline in many instances. In the
ordinary litigated matter, the court and counsel are not involved
except in their professional capacities, and irrelevant personal or
ad hominem attacks on them merely distract from the merits of the
litigation. Thus, where an attorney told a judge, you are corrupt
and you stink, he was sanctioned. Another attorney in New York was
disciplined for speculating that opposing counsel was involved in
organized crime.

This paragraph also explains why it's ad hominem: The interlocutor's
personal traits are not relevant to the argument, and personal attacks
generally distract from the merits of the litigation (facts and
reasoning). In this example, mere speculation was sufficient to warrant
disciplinary action.

[1] http://www.abtlsandiego.com/guidelines.html
[2] http://www.sacbar.org/members/saclawyer/mar_apr2005/law_motion.html
[3] http://www.nixonpeabody.com/publications_detail3.asp?ID=303
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Not all comments about an interlocutor are "attacks on their
>>> credibility"

Bradd wrote:
>> But your comments are: You call people idiots (attacking competence)
>> and liars (attacking honesty).

> I most certainly do. But I do *not* do so in order to support claims
> that they are incorrect about something.

That doesn't matter. Ad hominem fallacy (and other red herring
fallacies) include claims that confuse or distract participants, not
just claims intended to support the conclusion.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> Here's an example of ad hominem fallacy from Wikipedia:
>> Fallacymonger: "You are wrong to argue with me about matters of
>> logic because I am an expert in this field. Because you lack this
>> expertise yourself, I refuse to waste my time arguing with you at
>> all about this matter." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Yup. "You are not an expert in logic, therefore {implied} your
> argument about logic is worthless." You're right. That's ad hominem
> fallacy!

You're doing well so far.

>> I thought, perhaps, as part of a public service announcement,
>> that we should conduct the following: (1) Resolve to shun him
>> [Brandon Cope], on account of his Nth repeat of the same moronic
>> troll has gotten terrible boring. He will not learn from his
>> mistakes, and so there is little point in discussing his
>> misperceptions with him. He certainly will not grasp that his
>> opinions are not the same as relevant critiques.
>>
>> This "call for shunning" is a classic example of ad hominem fallacy.

> No, Bradd. Please show us where "therefore his argument is wrong" is
> implied.

It's obviously an attempt to dismiss all future arguments from Cope
pre-emptively. (If you did not intend it as such, then you're a bigger
fool than I thought.) That's exactly the same kind of ad hominem fallacy
(usually called "poisoning the well") as the Wikipedia example above.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd682nl.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> The San Diego chapter of the Association of Business Trial Lawyers
> offers this guideline regarding personal attacks:
>
> A lawyer should avoid personal attacks on all court officers,
> including judges and opposing counsel, and should not comment
> adversely on the intelligence, integrity, motive or conduct of
> judges or opposing counsel, except in the rare circumstance when
> such matter is legitimately in issue. Even when the zealous
> representation of a client may necessitate allegations of improper
> conduct, a lawyer should review such allegations to ensure that they
> are justified and supported by the evidence. A lawyer should bear in
> mind that ad hominem comments frequently are unpersuasive, increase
> the level of personal antagonism, and tend to diminish public
> respect for lawyers and the courts.[1]

Bradd, you *do* realize these are guidelines for conduct in court?

IS THIS A COURT OF LAW?


-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:

> "Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd682nl.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>
>>The San Diego chapter of the Association of Business Trial Lawyers
>>offers this guideline regarding personal attacks:
>>
>> A lawyer should avoid personal attacks on all court officers,
>> including judges and opposing counsel, and should not comment
>> adversely on the intelligence, integrity, motive or conduct of
>> judges or opposing counsel, except in the rare circumstance when
>> such matter is legitimately in issue. Even when the zealous
>> representation of a client may necessitate allegations of improper
>> conduct, a lawyer should review such allegations to ensure that they
>> are justified and supported by the evidence. A lawyer should bear in
>> mind that ad hominem comments frequently are unpersuasive, increase
>> the level of personal antagonism, and tend to diminish public
>> respect for lawyers and the courts.[1]
>
>
> Bradd, you *do* realize these are guidelines for conduct in court?
>
> IS THIS A COURT OF LAW?
>
>
> -Michael
>
>

Nope. But this is great advice. The minute that you attack anyone, or
insult them, you distract from your argument and generally get people to
stop listening to you, and is a sub-optimal way to pursued anyone.

CH
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> That doesn't matter. Ad hominem fallacy (and other red herring
>> fallacies) include claims that confuse or distract participants, not
>> just claims intended to support the conclusion.

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> *Only* when they are done to distract participants FROM A WEAK ARGUMENT.

You made that up. It does not appear in the definition of "red herring"
that I cited; it doesn't even make sense. A fallacy is still a fallacy
regardless of whether the rest of the argument stands on its own.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alien mind control rays made Michael Scott Brown <mistermichael@earthlink.net> write:
> Here's a hint, Goslin. *You* are ruining the newgroup for everyone
> *else* with your decisions to behave dishonestly.

every court has its jester, who doth amuse by acts of idiocy.

--
\^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: A mistake carried out to perfection.
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> That is the very claim I'm disputing. Some sources claim that it's
>> only ad hominem fallacy if a personal attack replaces all reasoning;
>> others claim that it's ad hominem fallacy even if the personal attack
>> merely bolsters the argument (i.e., even when it appears alongside
>> valid reasoning).

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> You can stretch the latter to include almost anything, though. I do
> not believe the personal attack needs to replace *all* reasoning (that
> is stretching as well). However, it must be part of the argument,
> rather than an insulting aside.

I generally agree with you, so long as it's really an aside and it isn't
blatantly prejudicial. However, when the insult dominates the argument's
content, that's no longer an aside.

> Note that I am not claiming Michael is entirely unambiguous in this regard.

Oh, I think it's entirely unambiguous: His insults are not simple
asides. They dominate his rants, often obscuring his sloppy reasoning.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> But attacking the interlocutor's credibility is an argument ....

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> I suppose it *can* be, if it is phrased as an argument.

When the insults are co-mingled with the reasoned part of the argument,
and they provide the bulk of the actual text, I claim that they most
certainly are part of the argument.

Also, when some juice-wearing scumbag insists that such insults are not
technically part of the argument, but are "in addition to" the argument,
so that he can salvage his intellectual pride, I say that he's provided
ample proof of his lemon-flavored sliminess.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Jeff Goslin said

> *sigh* Yes, I know, it's a fantasy world, and there are lots of wierd
> and wacky stuff that CAN happen. But in *MY* fantasy campaign world,
> there is a level of "normalness" that is based at least somewhat on
> reality. Steel is hard, wood splinters, water is refreshing, food
> tastes just like it does to us if it's made of the same basic stuff,
> up is up, down is down, and yes, berries taste like berries, and eggs
> taste like eggs.

Even the eggs of a Dragon turtle, or any magical or abberant creature? No
egg would be found with a large resivoir of food in the form of sugar.

> I understand that some things must be "fantastic" in a fantasy world,
> but the taste of berries and eggs is not in that subset of
> fantastically odd things.

Well in this world you get eggs that taste like caramel so you might want
to rethink that.

--
Rob Singers
"All your Ron are belong to us"
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd686t6.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Bradd wrote:
> >> That doesn't matter. Ad hominem fallacy (and other red herring
> >> fallacies) include claims that confuse or distract participants, not
> >> just claims intended to support the conclusion.
>
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> > *Only* when they are done to distract participants FROM A WEAK ARGUMENT.
>
> You made that up. It does not appear in the definition of "red herring"
> that I cited; it doesn't even make sense.

Um, Bradd? That's the only basis for additional claims to get onto the
logical chuckwagon.

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Then why can't you prove it, Bradd? WHY CAN'T YOU *SHOW* EXAMPLES OF
> *FLAWED* *REASONING*, *gorgeous*?

I already have.

When you present "an argument that may in itself be valid, but which
proves or supports a different proposition than the one it is purporting
to prove or support,"[1] then you have committed /ignoratio elenchi/
(the irrelevant conclusion fallacy). Note that this fallacy does not
require that your main argument actually depend on the irrelevant
conclusion, but merely that it exists. You do this often, and even brag
about it, insisting that it's "in addition to" your main argument -- but
that does not change the fact that it's /ignoratio elenchi/.

When the irrelevant conclusion serves to confuse or distract
participants, it's called a red herring or smoke screen. The Nizkor
Project describes the general form of the red herring fallacy:

1. Topic A is under discussion.
2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic
A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
3. Topic A is abandoned.[2]

This perfectly describes your usual pattern of ranting: You begin to
discuss the original topic, you introduce insults with the pretense that
they follow from your opponent's poor reasoning, and gradually shift
from discussion of the topic to discussion of your opponent, sometimes
culminating in a call to shun your interlocutor.

The Fallacy Files Web site describes red herrings even more succinctly:
"a 'red herring' argument is one which distracts the audience from the
issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy." Again,
your claims regarding the main point need not depend on the irrelevant
conclusion; mere distraction is sufficient to meet the definition of the
fallacy.

A red herring in the form of a personal attack is an ad hominem fallacy,
and an ad hominem fallacy that seeks to pre-emptively discredit an
opponent is a poisoning-the-well fallacy.

I have sufficiently proven that you are guilty of all of these. For some
reason, you actually brag about your use of these fallacies, insisting
that they are not actually "ad hominem." Definitions of "ad hominem"
vary somewhat, so you might reasonably claim that, but doing so is
intellectually dishonest, because you're merely covering up your mistake
with terminological shenanigans. It's a fallacy regardless of what you
call it.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi
[2] http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Oh, we're *way* past that. Stupid, dishonest, corrupt, sleazy,
> spineless, cowardly ... Bradd is now second pussy to Goslin. How
> pathetic. Bradd could have taken a stand for decency - but instead, he
> has waged a campaign of slander and strawmanning; he is now guilty of
> worse than that of which he accuses others.

You prove my point for me. "Bradd could have taken a stand for decency"
-- name that fallacy!
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> The San Diego chapter of the Association of Business Trial Lawyers
>> offers this guideline regarding personal attacks:
>>
>> A lawyer should avoid personal attacks on all court officers,
>> including judges and opposing counsel, and should not comment
>> adversely on the intelligence, integrity, motive or conduct of
>> judges or opposing counsel, except in the rare circumstance when
>> such matter is legitimately in issue. Even when the zealous
>> representation of a client may necessitate allegations of improper
>> conduct, a lawyer should review such allegations to ensure that they
>> are justified and supported by the evidence. A lawyer should bear in
>> mind that ad hominem comments frequently are unpersuasive, increase
>> the level of personal antagonism, and tend to diminish public
>> respect for lawyers and the courts.[1]

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Bradd, you *do* realize these are guidelines for conduct in court?

You do realize that they use "ad hominem" in the last sentence the same
way that philosophers, orators, critical-thinking textbooks, and other
argument experts do, right? In case this quotation wasn't clear enough,
I quoted several others that made the equivalence even more obvious.

> IS THIS A COURT OF LAW?

Unless you can establish that the courtroom standard for ad hominem
fallacy is different from the general standard, you've just committed
the genitive fallacy.

Furthermore, since that's the whole of your counter-argument here,
you've just committed a very basic and very obvious error in reasoning.
Since you were asking for examples of that, I felt I should point it
out.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd687o0.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > I suppose it *can* be, if it is phrased as an argument.
>
> When the insults are co-mingled with the reasoned part of the argument,
> and they provide the bulk of the actual text, I claim that they most
> certainly are part of the argument.

Wow. I LOVE PUPPIES SO MUCH! IT'S INCREDIBLE HOW MUCH I LIKE PUPPIES!!
SOMETIMES I LIKE TO PET THEM, AND SOMETIMES I LIKE TO PLAY CATCH WITH THEM!
AND SOMETIMES I LIKE TO SHAVE THEM AND PRETEND THAT THEY HAD TO GO TO THE
VET JUST TO GET SYMPATHY FROM GIRLS. I THINK THIS MIGHT PISS THEM OFF A
LITTLE BIT, THOUGH, BECAUSE THEY GROWL AT ME WHEN I SHAVE THEM. SOMETIMES
THIS LEADS TO AN ALTERCATION AND THUS TO THE ACQUISTION OF A NEW PUPPY! So
now, the "bulk of the actual text" is the only standard for whether or not
something is an argument. Watch out, everyone! If your rhetoric waxes
overly long, then it is magically transformed by Bradd's "word count" filter
of truth into the argument, just by virtue of being there!

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd6898t.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> > Then why can't you prove it, Bradd? WHY CAN'T YOU *SHOW* EXAMPLES OF
> > *FLAWED* *REASONING*, *gorgeous*?
>
> I already have.

Please point to a post where you did so and were not resoundingly
debunked.
Bitch.

[snip nonsense] (gander!)

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd689ak.7r3.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> > Oh, we're *way* past that. Stupid, dishonest, corrupt, sleazy,
> > spineless, cowardly ... Bradd is now second pussy to Goslin. How
> > pathetic. Bradd could have taken a stand for decency - but instead, he
> > has waged a campaign of slander and strawmanning; he is now guilty of
> > worse than that of which he accuses others.
>
> You prove my point for me. "Bradd could have taken a stand for decency"
> -- name that fallacy!

Ironically, Bradd has once again supported mine. In a _discussion_ of
the rapidly declining quality of Bradd, where I observe that Bradd is
rampantly strawmanning and dishonest, Bradd responds with a post that
pretends that this was a logical argument of some kind! Ie; MORE
STRAWMANNING!

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

chris.spol@gmail.com wrote:
>> "Examples of Poisoning the Well -- Don't listen to him, he's a
>> scoundrel." That's it -- no formal syllogism need apply. The
>> "therefore his argument is wrong" is just as evident in the above
>> example as in MSB's "[shun him, he's boring and unable to learn]".
>> One does NOT need to EXPLICITLY state a conclusion to present an ad
>> hominem fallacy.

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> What about the part where a fallacy only appears *if and only if* a
> discussion of the speaker is used as 'evidence' *against his
> arguments* DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

I understand that you keep claiming that, but it simply is not true.
Formal fallacies comprise those errors that indicate a flaw in
reasoning, but informal fallacies also include attempts to distract
participants from the main point, regardless of whether the side
argument is valid or sound. You seem unaware of the latter sort, which
is why I call you a juice-wearing scumbag instead of an ordinary
scumbag.

[Also, be more careful in your quoting. Your article made it look like
Chris was quoting me instead of quoting the Nizkor Project. You're
consistently sloppy with two-level quotes, and the last time somebody
complained about it, you snapped at them. You should know better.]
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Clawhound" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:bEV8e.131$fZ5.207@mencken.net.nih.gov...
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Nope. But this is great advice. The minute that you attack anyone, or
> insult them, you distract from your argument and generally get people to
> stop listening to you, and is a sub-optimal way to pursued anyone.

Unless, of course, your goal is to have an entertaining argument.

This thread runs through all of Bradd's arguments. He somehow believes
that just because the consensus on how to have a *civil* discussion exists,
that is somehow relevant or inherently correct! There are *aesthetic*
choices, not logical ones. He keeps mistakenly assuming fallacy and error
in reason when the issue is AESTHETIC.

-Michael
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> When the insults are co-mingled with the reasoned part of the argument,
>> and they provide the bulk of the actual text, I claim that they most
>> certainly are part of the argument.

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> So now, the "bulk of the actual text" is the only standard for whether
> or not something is an argument.

Even if you ignore everything else I've written on this subject, and
rely entirely on the out-of-context quotation above, you'll find that I
mentioned at least /two/ standards.

Tell me, juicebag, were you trying to lie about what I wrote, or do you
just have trouble counting to two?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
>>> Then why can't you prove it, Bradd? WHY CAN'T YOU *SHOW* EXAMPLES OF
>>> *FLAWED* *REASONING*, *gorgeous*?

Bradd wrote:
>> I already have.

> Please point to a post where you did so and were not resoundingly
> debunked. Bitch.

I already did. Pretending that I didn't only makes you look more foolish.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> You prove my point for me. "Bradd could have taken a stand for decency"
>> -- name that fallacy!

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Ironically, Bradd has once again supported mine. In a _discussion_ of
> the rapidly declining quality of Bradd, where I observe that Bradd is
> rampantly strawmanning and dishonest, Bradd responds with a post that
> pretends that this was a logical argument --

No, juicebag, I claimed that it was an /illogical/ argument.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> Here's a funny. On the same website where Goslin mungled his
> definition of Ad Hominem, there appears ...
>
> "Appeal To Pity (Appeal to Sympathy, The Galileo Argument): .....
> There is a strange variant which shows up on Usenet. Somebody refuses
> to answer questions about their claims, on the grounds that the asker
> is mean and has hurt their feelings..."

Note that these pleas do not purport to support the main point, but
merely to distract from the counter-argument -- yet it's still
considered a fallacy. You're hung by your own petard.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd