placing a second router

[ABRAND888]

I have a cable modem on second floor in the front of house and a Linksys WRT54GL router with Tomato firmware and 9 dbi antennas. My laptop in my basement picks wireless signal but my basement is in the back of my house.
Could I buy another router place it on the second floor in the back of my house by the window and could get a better signal in my basement ? If I could how would I set it up ?

abrand888

 

[Guest]

have a look at this http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101496.asp

 

[ABRAND888]

I looked at the link. I understand it but I cannot use cablling. I need to do it wirelessly if at all possible.

Have you any other ideas ?

thanks

 

[Guest]

For wireless link between routers to work you need model(s) which support WDS. If not look at purpose-built range extender/repeater.

 

[Guest]

You might also look at high-gain antenna or abandon wireless and use mains-plug network adapters.

 

[ABRAND888]

filhart,

The router I am using is WRT54GL. Since I am using Tomato 1.19, I see that at present I am set up for access point. In looking inside Tomato, there is two options. One is access point plus WDS and the other is WDS only. I can buy another Linksys WRT54GL router and how can I set up both routers ?

My present router is using two 9 dbi antennas. I have a extra pair of 6.5 dbi antennas that I could put on second router and place it by my window in the back of the second floor. Will this be sufficent so I will see a stronger signal in the basement ?

What exactly do you mean purpose-built range extender/repeater.

I saw a Belkin urepeater on NEWEGG and am waiting for info on that unit.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

"What exactly do you mean purpose-built range extender/repeater."

Check out Netgear/Linksys websites or online retailers -- basically they are units which can connect by wire (or wireless, I believe) which will help extend wireless coverage.

Frankly, homeplug (mains borne networking) is simple and much more reliable/secure than messing about with multiple wireless units.

 

[ABRAND888]

Hi,

I tried two different sets of Netgear wireless home plugs and the first set failed and the second set also failed. It is hard to pin down the support guy and even if I tell him a good time to get me, he doesn't always call that day so a lot of time is wasted.

I am open to another brand to test and will appreciate a reccomendation.

Thanks for your rep-lies.

 

[Guest]

Netgear had a recall on their mains plug adapters.


The brand that seems most recommended in the UK is Solwise (though I suspect that's merely the name of the importer). Might be worth a look at their site and try source a similar looking product from a supplier local to you.

 

[ABRAND888]

fihart,

I just tried second set of Netgear wireless range powerline and it is a failure. The recertified units had their serial numbers blacked out so the Netgear support would not even help me without a serial number. I returned two sets to eCOST and hopefully I will get a credit.

So I am waiting for Solwise to tell me who is selling in the states but I am open to using either a range expander or another router . Is there any setups for a range expander ? If I got another Linksys and loaded it with Tomato firmware, how could I set up both routers properly ?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Guest]

You should get a refund on the Netgear units -- particularly if the retailer hadn't pointed out that they were reconditioned.

Don't know about Tomato. You should just be able to connect one mains plug device by ethernet to the router bringing in internet and at the other end connect the mains plug device by ethernet to your computer.

Or connect it by ethernet to a simple switch or router if you need more than one computer connected at that end.

 

[jeb1517]

I'm no expert on wireless networks, but why can't you just use a repeater?

 

[ABRAND888]

jeb1517,

where would you place a repeater ? My setup is in the front of my house on the second floor. I have cable modem going to a Linksys WRT54GL router. I replaced the 2 dbi antennas with 9 dbi ( I presume it is that) and my setup in my basement is in the back of the house. My signal in the basement although the numbers look good on antenna strength is poor in surfing. It takes time. I am spoiled because upstairs in the front of my house I get fantastic speeds downloading or surfing, downstairs is pathetic.

Would buying a repeater -which brand would you suggest- and placing it in my bedroom on the second floor help getting the signal downstairs to my basement or placing it on the main floor and seeing how strong a signal I get by trial and error in my basement.

Is a repeater similar to a router ? Could a router be set up as a repeater ?

Since I am a newbie in this stuff and inquisitive I am happy to do experiments. My thinking could be wrong but if a router could be set up as a repeater and it has antennas connected to it, it would pick up the signal from my first router and like filhart states placing it by the window would give me a stronger signal hopefully downstairs.

Thanks

 

[jeb1517]

So your house has a 2nd floor, a 1st floor, and then the basement? And your router is currently in the front of the 2nd floor and you would like good signal in the back of the basement? First of all, I don't see how placing any device by a window would help. You have a couple of options that I can see. Since the distance you are trying to cover seems to be fairly large, you could try buying an N class router (you currently have a G, not even super G, just the regular 54g). The new N class routers have much better range. 2nd option is getting a repeater. I would place the repeater on the first floor, somewhere in the middle preferably. If not, then towards the back. Routers can be used as repeaters but it depends on the firmware but you said it seems like tomato can do that.

EDIT: Check out this website
http://lifehacker.com/software/router/hack-attack-turn-your-60-router-into-a-600-router-178132.php
it shows how to use your router more effectively. I'm not sure if that's what you meant with the tomato thing. Also...the 2nd floor is a curious place for your modem and router. Most people have it on the first floor where the cable comes in. Placing your modem and router on the first floor would help alot too.

 

[ABRAND888]

jeb1517,

My setup is on the second floor because it is a dedicated computer room but doesn't have AC. My basement also has a computer set up but has AC. I am not a fan of cable just high speed wireless. I do have a super G USB lan driver and when I use a 12 dbi antenna going to my PC, the speed is poor and doesn't hold steady. To me it is ironic that my lapop when down in my basement picks up a stronger signal than my regular pc with the usb lan driver but I would like the signal stronger so it locks on solidly.

I looked at the link about dd-wrt and will print it out and see if it will do better than the third party firmware Tomato. I will need to really read everything before I think about redoing my firmware.

The tomato firmware will allow me to set up WDS on a WRT54GL router. I selected the WRT54GL router because I also go on line using Ubuntu for surfing upstairs because I have two computer systems upstairs. There is no guarantee that if I bought a wireless N router it will pick up a stronger signal in my basement. I will check with Microcenter on their return policy if I bought a wireless N router they will accept it back. I don't mind trying it.

Which wireless N router would you suggest ?

Getting back to setting up a second router as a expander, how does one set up the second router ? Do I leave the first router as a AP ? I would prefer using the same model router set up as a expander because the firmware is geared for the Linksys routers.

I did ask Belkin about their expander about 10 days ago but never got a answer. They said it will be answered in the order it is received and I guess I am number 1000.

As far as placing the router to a window I believe it was mntioned either here or in a answer to someone else. Would placing the router as high as possible help the wireless signal ?

Thanks

 

[jeb1517]

I do have a super G USB lan driver and when I use a 12 dbi antenna going to my PC, the speed is poor and doesn't hold steady.

Well that's not surprising. It wouldn't matter if you had the best and most expensive USB adapter in your computer. It can only receive what the router sends it and right now your router isn't doing a good job. From what I've read (never actually bought antennas myself) antennas don't make that big of a difference. Laptops for some reason always get better reception in my experience. Microcenter should take it back no problem. My work has a 30 day return policy on routers open or closed. I would just leave the router where it is. There was also a tutorial in that webpage I linked that showed how to increase the strength of your wireless signal. If you decide to switch firmware, maybe you could try that also. N routers can get pretty expensive but look for one on sale at microcenter. We had a D-Link N on sale for 39.99. The Linksys ones usually run around $100 when on sale. There are also Linksys models for about $250.

 

[ABRAND888]

JEB1517,

I ran two weeks ago a lot of tests on my pc in my basement with different antennas connected to the Engeniustech USB lan driver and the results were very poor. Sometimes the speed picked up a little but to try and download newsgroups discussions or freeware were not great. In order for me to test download speeds, I would go to pctools.com and download their free anti virus program or avg free anti virus to get a idea of speed. Download speed using cantenna and even a 16dbi yagi antenna was 120 kb/sec to 190 kb/sec.

I also have a WiFire USB antenna and on a pc was 160 kb/sec-186 kb/sec but was more steady than the other antennas connected to usb lan driver to pc. The laptop by itself was 210-285 kb/sec. With the WiFire connected to laptop and internal wireless turned off was also 227-275 kb/sec almost the same results. I use the WiFire antenna when I am on the road. It helps sometimes.

So what I need to do is increase the transmit power from 70 to 100, maybe or go incremently. I don't know if I am right in doing so but I can try it for a while and see if the download speed picks up. Will a N router help I don't know. I will also check on how hot the Linksys gets by increasing the transmit power. I assume that if I could buy a N router like the D-Link when on sale will it improve the signal downstairs I really don't know.

Will changing third party firmware from Tomato to DD-Wrt help I also don't know but according to the link you gave me might be worth a shot first. On my Linksys I have two 9 dbi antennas which I replaced. A good test might be to put first on the original antennas and see what signal strength I get in the basement with the 70 mw setting I already have. I also have 6.5 dbi antennas as well as the 9 dbi antennas and run different tests and write the outcomes. Might be interesting not only to me but others.

I didn't buy any routers yet, either Linksys or D-link. The only router I have is the Linksys with the Tomato firmware upstairs connected to my cable modem.

Somehow I need to help the internal wireless antenna of the laptop to get a stronger signal and forget trying the pc to be like the capability of the lapto to receive a wireless signal.


Thanks

 

[jeb1517]

Yes, that's exactly what I would do. Test out that firmware and see if it helps any before buying another router. Also, I'm very confident an N router would help out especially if you buy a nice one such as a Linksys 300N. Even the 150s should be much better than 54g. Post back your results and good luck.

 

[ABRAND888]

jeb1517,

I will start first putting back the original antennas, leave the Linksys where it is and write down the speeds with the 70mw setting on my laptop in the basement. I will then exchange the original antennas and put the 6.5 dbi antennas and monitor the speeds downloading in the basement. After that I will put the 9 dbi antennas, note the speeds and see if there are any differences. I must tell you that sometimes I get better speeds and it peters out. Should be interesting.

I will change the transmiting power to 80 and see what I get, first with original antennas, 6.5 and 9 dbi antennas, then 85mw and again do the test all over again and see how hot the Linksys. This will take some time but it should be interested. I will use the firmware I loaded into the Linksys, Tomato.

I stopped off at Microcenter this afternoon and they have a D-Link DIR-615 for 40.00 after rebate and a DIR-628 for 80.00 after rebate. Also have a DIR-625 Rangebooster N wireless router for 70.00. Their policy is quite liberal. I have 30 days to bring it back for a full credit so I really can test each or one of them to ascertain which would be best znd know they can be returned. Interesting !

Which model would you suggest ? Where would I place the N Router ? Upstairs and the Linksys downstairs or vice versa ? Should I leave the transmitting power at 70 or higher ?

Since I am using one of the routers downstairs, how do I set up the router to receive the signal ? If it receives the signal, then the output of the router will go to laptop or could it also go to my pc too ?

Thanks

I am hopeful that after all these tests I will not only be successful but also help others.

 

[ABRAND888]

Jeb1517,

I just went to the DD-WRT page and saw that the D-link 625 and 628 both support b/g/n routers. It also supports the Linksys WRT54GL router. I find this interesting. Thes unit are on sale at Microcenter but the DIR-625 is called Rangebooster.

Look forward to your reply.

 

[jeb1517]

What happened with your tests? I would see if boosting the transmit power helps your reception in the basement before buying the 2nd router. If it doesn't help, then get one of those N routers. I don't think it should matter too much which one you get. Depends how much money you are willing to spend. Whichever one you choose, you should be able to tell fairly quickly if you are getting better reception or not in the basement. All these methods I'm referring to only incorporate ONE router (placed in the same spot you currently have your router, front of the house on the 2nd floor). If even the N router can't give you a satisfactory signal in the basement, then try the setup with two routers. I would leave the N upstairs and place the Linksys on the first floor, either in the middle or towards the back (transmit power set to default). The link below has the process of how to set up the Linksys as a repeater. I didn't read the whole thing but it seems like the right thing.

http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/10724_3655041_1

 

[jeb1517]

I just would like to add...usually switching firmware on a product seems risky and people tend to not do it (including myself). However, I read about the history of this firmware and I found it pretty interesting. It seems that Linksys used Linux to develop the firmware. Since Linux is open source, Linksys was forced to give up the code to their firmware. This allowed developers, like the one who made the DD-WRT firmware (named BrainSlayer), to find out exactly how the WRT54G router worked. As a result, developers were able to create their own firmware, using Linux, that could unlock the true potential of the router. Since then, Linksys has stopped using open source programming for their firmware...obviously.... My point is that although flashing firmware might be risky in other situations, it seems like the appropriate thing to do with this router. Another popular firmware for this router is called Alchemy and Talisman, released by a company called Sveasoft.

 

[ABRAND888]

jeb1517,

Here are all the results of all my tests which took a lot of hours.

August 5, 2008

I am using Tomato 1.19 Third party firmware and transmitting power is 70mw on Linksys WRT54GL

router with 2 dbi original antennas that came with Linksys. The tests are in my basement which is in the back of my house using my Laptop.

Status 3 bars
AVG FREE started at 165kb/sec - 185 kb/sec
AVG Free second time started at 165kb/sec - 185 kb/sec
PCTools.com Anti-Virus 700kb/sec - 800kb/sec- this website is always very fast.
PCTools.com AV second time 700kb/sec - 800kb/sec -same as upstairs on second floor
Symantec Norton Anti-Virus 620kb/sec - 900kb/sec

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70mw power output
one 2 dbi antenna and one 6.5 dbi antenna- couldn't find second 6.5 dbi antenna

Symantec AVirus ` 4039kb/sec - 4086kb/sec -don't understand why it is so fast
System Works 361kb/sec - 512kb/sec -evidently Symantec has fast downlod
AVG Free 156kb/sec - 280kb/sec
AVG FREE AGAIN 220kb/sec - 280kb/sec
PCTools Registry program 290kb/sec - 356kb/sec

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 6, 2008
70mw connected two 9 dbi rubber ducky antennas Had to reconfigure windows connections.

AVG FREE 120kb/sec - 218kb/sec
AVG FREE second time 240kb/sec - 290kb/sec
AVG FREE third time 120kb/sec - 224kb/sec
AVG FREE fourth time 258kb/sec - 289kb/sec

FREEWAREFILES.COM web site

Zone Alarm Free 1100 kb/sec average download speed
Mario Forever (20 MB) 270 - 323 kb/sec
Little Fighter 2 300kb/sec - 340kb/sec

===============================================================================================

Changed transmitting power to 84mw and reconfigured Windows to find wireless connection.
9 dbi antenna connected to Linksys Router

Little Fiughter 2 120kb/sec - 250kb/sec
Little Fighter second time 170kb/sec - 290kb/sec
Mario Forever 190kb/sec - 317kb/sec
Mario Forever second time 139kb/sec - 320kb/sec
AVG FREE 170KB/sec - 340kb/sec
PCTOOLS.COM 3000kb/sec too fast in downloading speed to really see speed.

==============================================================================================

Put back 2 dbi original antennas on the Linksys transmitting power 84mw

WENT TO AVG FREE 170kb/sec - 187kb/sec
AVG FREE-2nd time 185kb/sec - 187kb/sec
pctools.com Spyware Doctors 420kb/sec - 484kb/sec
pctools anti-virus instantaneously-can't figure out download speed
Mario Forever 78kb/sec - 235kb/sec
Zone Alarm Free 3600kb/sec
Little Fighter 2 60kb/sec - 172kb/sec
Little Fighter 2-2nd time 200kb/sec - 250kb/sec

went to another site- seemed to take forever to get to the site-hangs up
downloaded a few programs 50kb/sec - 86kb/sec

=============================================================================================

Same day August 7, 2008 at 11)00 pm 84 KW TRANSMITTING POWER

avg free.com 176KB/SEC - 284KB/SEC
SECOND TIME avg free 160KB/SEC - 305KB/SEC
pctools.com aNTI vIRUS 330KB/ -370KB/SEC

WENT TO A SITE THAT i WENT TO USING 2 DBI ANTENNAS AND I got there faster.

went to Freewarefiles.com Si

Little Fighter 2 66kb/sec - 281kb/sec
Zone Alarm Free 400kb/sec -466kb/sec
AVG FREE -same website 240kb/ - 306kb/sec
Mario Forever 180kb - 345kb/sec

 

[jeb1517]

Seems like you're getting some pretty descent speeds. Is your router getting really hot using the 84kw setting? Also, did you try using your desktop? Your desktop was the one that you were having slow connection problems with right?

 

[ABRAND888]

jeb1517,

My router is getting hot but not very hot because I haven't been on line for more than a hour. Should I keep it on for 8 hrs and really see how hot it gets ?
I didn't try my desktop because the only way I can try it is with the USB lan driver and antenna and the speeds really seems to be half of what my laptop gets. I am getting different speed results by going to different web sites and when I download documents like the one you recommended DD-WRT, the download speed is 60 - 90 kb/sec and when I downloaded the same documents upstairs it was 3x faster than the basement speed.

I can live using my laptop in the basement because you said that laptops get better results than desktops. I would be interested in experimenting with another router to get at least 50% higher download speeds.

Micro Center is a fair place to do business with. I can buy a DIR-625 or DIR-528 D-Link router to experiment with. Both routers are supported by DD-WRT firmware. Which model would you suggest trying ? Should I place the N draft router right next to my cable modem upstairs, install the DD-WRT firmware on the D-Link and alo install the DD-WRT firmware on the Linksys or leave the Tomato firmware on the Linksys ?

Should I remove the 9 dbi antennas off the Linksys, put back the original antenas and put the 9 dbi antenas on the D-link ? I find all this stuff quite interesting. I could put the Linksys in my dining room which is right over my basement in the back of the house and maybe I will get a stronger signal.

I look forward to your reply.