Question Poor performance after upgrading CPU ?

so i have decided to upgrade my CPU from R5 1600x to R7 3800x..as im still using x370 mainboard and 5000serie or next one will not really fit there...and dunno if it would be worth it to replace mainboard if it still working as am5 will be incoming later next year

my first taught was ram would perform much faster then it was on first gen ryzen and ipc will be like 30% faster
but umm...im not really sure if thats true?

here are my old userbenchmarks with r5 1600x and same ram modules (dual rank samsung B die 3200 CL14-14-34-50)
here they are clocked at 3333Mhz
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10576750

here they goes at 3400MHz...not really big diff between 3333 and 3400
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/14185108

ram appears to run okay

now with R7 3800x...
ram write is expected to be lower (as amd said games doesnt need to write that much)
but ram latency should be lower (amd said that)...
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/47079902
but uhh...i kinda doesnt feel that it runs right?
cpu bumped about 10% more performance per core (zen1 4Ghz boost vs zen2 4.5GHz boost which is like zero IPC difference lol)
and ram has higher latency then on first gen ryzen o_O
already reduced subtimings (RC, RFC tWR), rest of subtimings are within +-1ns compared to benchmarks above...it wouldnt make such huge difference
technically single core ram speed should be way faster with higher cpu clock frequency
turbo works fine (hwinfo)

bandwith limit for 3333MHz is 53,3GBps and for 3400MHz is 54.4

what do i miss?
 
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Oct 13, 2021
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so i have decided to upgrade my CPU from R5 1600x to R7 3800x..as im still using x370 mainboard and 5000serie or next one will not really fit there...and dunno if it would be worth it to replace mainboard if it still working as am5 will be incoming later next year

my first taught was ram would perform much faster then it was on first gen ryzen and ipc will be like 30% faster
but umm...im not really sure if thats true?

here are my old userbenchmarks with r5 1600x and same ram modules (dual rank samsung B die 3200 CL14-14-34-48)
here they are clocked at 3333Mhz
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10576750

here they goes at 3400MHz...not really big diff between 3333 and 3400
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/14185108

ram appears to run okay

now with R7 3800x...
ram write is expected to be lower (as amd said games doesnt need to write that much)
but ram latency should be lower (amd said that)...
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/47079902
but uhh...i kinda doesnt feel that it runs right?
cpu bumped about 10% more performance per core (zen1 vs zen2)
and ram has higher latency then on first gen ryzen o_O
already reduced subtimings (RC, RFC tWR), rest of subtimings are within +-1ns compared to benchmarks above...it wouldnt make such huge difference
technically single core ram speed should be way faster with higher cpu clock frequency
turbo works fine (hwinfo)

what do i miss?
It could be that the RAM isn't fully optimized for your new CPU? Not 100% sure. Check the BIOS and the XMP settings and timings and voltage for the RAM. Also, just wait until AM5 because these processors will be quite worth the money.
 
It could be that the RAM isn't fully optimized for your new CPU? Not 100% sure. Check the BIOS and the XMP settings and timings and voltage for the RAM. Also, just wait until AM5 because these processors will be quite worth the money.
hmm i dont use XMP? and hitting XMP will just setup main timings and 1.35voltage...subtimings runs mostly in auto mode and benchmark is much worse with XMP

here is hwinfo timings


FCLK and UCLK is running at 1667MHz
 
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hmm i dont use XMP? and hitting XMP will just setup main timings and 1.35voltage...subtimings runs mostly in auto mode and benchmark is much worse with XMP

here is hwinfo timings


FCLK and UCLK is running at 1667MHz
Ok. I see. Also, the memory clocks are X2 what they say, so even though it says 1667 it is really running at about 3334MHz. What you can do is run DRAM calculator by TechPowerUp. This will calculate timings for your DRAM and what should be runnable for your DRAM at the lowest timings.
 
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Also, I forgot that it's not XMP, it's called D.O.C.P. for Ryzen Motherboards/Processors, so go into your computer's BIOS and go to advanced then go to the tab that has the D.O.C.P. profiling.
 
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mine board calls it xmp, but anyway xmp is slow...rfc there is like 560? lol no ty
I'm going to say that you should try to find more advanced and optimized DRAM timings if you're worried about latency. Even if XMP is slow, it will raise your DRAM frequency and would give you more performance overall.
 
I'm going to say that you should try to find more advanced and optimized DRAM timings if you're worried about latency. Even if XMP is slow, it will raise your DRAM frequency and would give you more performance overall.
xmp is 3200MHz cas14 rcd14 rp14 ras34 rc48 faw39 rrds6 rrdl8 rfc560 1.35volts..thats all
im at 3333MHz cas14 rcd14 rp14 ras34 rc50 faw35 rrds7 rrdl9 rfc340 1.35volts
bumping frequency up will rise rrds and rrdl timings...thats normal and has like zero performance effect (its mainly for stability when overclocking)
+2 on rc is minimal performance difference
rfc -120 gives free performance boost...
faw-4 is slitghtly better then what xmp offers

seriously xmp is just for reference that gives you some rough idea, its not something that you have to use..its an easy overclock profile with some headroom (for compatibility reason between mainboards and CPUs - wide range compatibility = more sticks sold)
 
ok i think i found issue, but no idea how to proceed
ram timing difference between old and new:
old tSTAG = 10ns
new tSTAG = 195ns
everything else is +-1ns difference

how to go about this timing, its not really user changeable, bios modding isnt really my thing
should i retrain ram (cmos reset) few times and hope for better value? :(
 
Oct 13, 2021
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ok i think i found issue, but no idea how to proceed
ram timing difference between old and new:
old tSTAG = 10ns
new tSTAG = 195ns
everything else is +-1ns difference

how to go about this timing, its not really user changeable, bios modding isnt really my thing
should i retrain ram (cmos reset) few times and hope for better value? :(
This might be your best bet, but if you have a lot of settings changed, I don't think that it would be in your best interest to redo them all. As I've said, you should try TechPowerUp's DRAM Calculator. You obviously know more about memory than I do, but I tried my best.
 

mamasan2000

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First of all, did you reset CMOS? So that BIOS identifies the correct CPU. Second, did you re-install chipset drivers? Uninstall, reboot, install.
tFAW should be able to go down to 16. And the 2 before that at 4, the tRRD(S/L).
And 3000-series should be able to run 3600 Mhz RAM. Did you try overclocking to that speed? 3200 Mhz B-die should be able to do it, with quite tight timings.
Did you test other ProcODT or DrvStr settings? Could be signal integrity issue? Have you run any RAM stability tests?
 
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Ok. I'd try downloading ZenTimings. It shows you memory timings, voltages, Infinity Fabric and Memory Controller clocks. I'd see what happens with it.
 
First of all, did you reset CMOS? So that BIOS identifies the correct CPU. Second, did you re-install chipset drivers? Uninstall, reboot, install.
tFAW should be able to go down to 16. And the 2 before that at 4, the tRRD(S/L).
And 3000-series should be able to run 3600 Mhz RAM. Did you try overclocking to that speed? 3200 Mhz B-die should be able to do it, with quite tight timings.
Did you test other ProcODT or DrvStr settings? Could be signal integrity issue? Have you run any RAM stability tests?
cmos did reset when i swapped CPU on its own...as secure boot and ftpm and fan profiles were reseted and CSM got enabled....but about few minutes ago i did cmos reset (with a jumper) which produced 3x reboot then post (normal for first boot)

i didnt touch much timings or frequencies yet, i know that 3400MHz CL14 1.35v produces errors, so i went 3333MHz, prime , memtest, aida stress test no errors
proc odt is 60ohm, drv strength is 24ohm, is there any reason to toy with it if im currently not looking after higher overclocks?
anyway, point is im comparing old cpu same ram frequency and timings with new cpu with same frequency and timings
first gen ryzen produced like 99% ram bandwith efficiency
3rd gen ryzen produces like 92,5% ram badwith efficiency
same timings and clock speed
and as far i know, 3rd gen should have lower ram latencies (as they reduced latency on cache)
 
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Seems to be a common thing among 3rd gen Ryzen, but tSTAG seems to be fairly high compared to 2nd or 1st gen Ryzen. 2nd and 1st seem to have ~10 tSTAG. Your tREFI is running at the value that it should. I would try going into Ryzen Master and setting specific timings and OC the CPU too.
 
Seems to be a common thing among 3rd gen Ryzen, but tSTAG seems to be fairly high compared to 2nd or 1st gen Ryzen. 2nd and 1st seem to have ~10 tSTAG. Your tREFI is running at the value that it should. I would try going into Ryzen Master and setting specific timings and OC the CPU too.
its a bit high...running ram at stock 2133mhz reduces stag to 125, so its not something i can work around
guess ill just go with normal clock overclock / tightening timings to get around it
 
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its a bit high...running ram at stock 2133mhz reduces stag to 125, so its not something i can work around
guess ill just go with normal clock overclock / tightening timings to get around it
Tightening timings is necessary. You can also go into your BIOS and find Power Down mode. Disabling power down mode gives slight stability improvements if you try to OC
 
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its a bit high...running ram at stock 2133mhz reduces stag to 125, so its not something i can work around
guess ill just go with normal clock overclock / tightening timings to get around it
Go to your BIOS settings, and set command rate in DRAM timings to Gear Down mode which gives it more stability. Also, set your tRC timing to 48, because the lowest your tRC can go is the timing of your tRAS and tRP added together. It would slightly lower the latency. Also, don't do both of these at once, set command rate to Gear Down mode instead of auto first, and then boot it up again, and test with ZenTimings again. Afterwards, go back in and change the tRC timing to whatever is your tRAS and tRC timings added together.
 
gear down disabled on first gen gave performance drop even with higher clock and tighter timings..so dunno how will that work out with zen2

3600mhz doesnt seems to be stable no matter what i do...bios freezes, pc reboots...
3533 rock solid stable

timings can go really low (much lower on RAS related timings values for stable clock then with first gen)
ras is 47 now, rrds 4, rrdl 6 which allowed me to drop rfc to 296
and reduced some read subtimings

main timings are slightly lower than what are suggested in fast profile
write timings are mostly in auto mode...not really important for what i do with PC
performance got to what it used to be (with lower clocked ram on first gen)

tho max bus bandwith is 56,5GB...so not really efficient, but ok..its cl16
 

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