Powerline Adapter That'll Work With 3 Phases?

[_Tempo]

I need a powerline adapter for a PC on the top floor and the router is on the first floor, and my house has 3 phases. So I saw that there are some adapters that work even with multiple phases, but I also saw people saying that they are really slow.

Should I go for a powerline adapter even though I have 3 phases than? if so, do you have some good ones to highlight? If not, what alternative do you suggest?

Hope you can help guys, thanks.

 

[bill001g]

Are you sure you have 3 phase power. It is very rare in residential. It is primary used in commercial building. mostly ones that have motors

It varies a bit by country but 3 phase generally means you have 3 hot lines, the vast majority of houses have only 2.

Powerline devices are not designed to run in commercial buildings so I would suspect they would have a issue if you actually have 3 phase power.

 

[_Tempo]

Are you sure you have 3 phase power. It is very rare in residential. It is primary used in commercial building. mostly ones that have motors

It varies a bit by country but 3 phase generally means you have 3 hot lines, the vast majority of houses have only 2.

Powerline devices are not designed to run in commercial buildings so I would suspect they would have a issue if you actually have 3 phase power.

I really don't know and maybe I need to check it out, but it's my father's house and he says it's 3 phase.
If it's really 2 phase a powerline adapter will work?

EDIT: Yeah, 3 phase is popular here (Israel), mostly old apartments have 1 phase here.

 

[bill001g]

It is highly unlikely a wall outlet would be 3 phase itself. The issue is if different wall outlets are on different phases it may not work. A house it only sorta is 2 phase. Most times it is referring to power in the USA that runs on 110volts.

The issue is with 3 phase power you have 3 hot wires. Say A,B,C. The combinations that give 220volts are A-B, B-C,A-C. If one device is say on the A-B combination and the other is on A-C then the powerline units may have issues. You would not have all 3 hot wires coming to any outlet in the house. Y

You would be able to tell by looking at the power panel The main breaker will likely have 3 positions. It also may say 400volts since 3 phase power pretty much everywhere except the USA is 400volts.

The newest poweline unit tend to work better in many situations because they also use the ground lead to send signal. This would be common to all outlets no matter what power is used.

This is one of those things you are likely going to have to just try. I would still look at the power panel first 3 phase power is very obvious.

 

[_Tempo]

It is highly unlikely a wall outlet would be 3 phase itself. The issue is if different wall outlets are on different phases it may not work. A house it only sorta is 2 phase. Most times it is referring to power in the USA that runs on 110volts.

The issue is with 3 phase power you have 3 hot wires. Say A,B,C. The combinations that give 220volts are A-B, B-C,A-C. If one device is say on the A-B combination and the other is on A-C then the powerline units may have issues. You would not have all 3 hot wires coming to any outlet in the house. Y

You would be able to tell by looking at the power panel The main breaker will likely have 3 positions. It also may say 400volts since 3 phase power pretty much everywhere except the USA is 400volts.

The newest poweline unit tend to work better in many situations because they also use the ground lead to send signal. This would be common to all outlets no matter what power is used.

This is one of those things you are likely going to have to just try. I would still look at the power panel first 3 phase power is very obvious.

The main breaker looks something like this - https://imgur.com/a/LwXeE
So looks like 3 phase, right?
I guess like you said I'll just buy one and try, just hoping that 50 dollars won't go to waste. But are there some powerline adapters that work with multiple circuits and some that don't?

 

[bill001g]

You best bet is the newest av2- models. This technology uses the ground wire in addition to all the hots. I have watched electricians wire three phase equipment at work and was surprised how complex it gets some times. They have fancy testing meters to make sure the phases are in the correct order and stuff. Then again the USA 3 phase power is really different than everyone else since it can produce multiple different voltages.

 

[_Tempo]

You best bet is the newest av2- models. This technology uses the ground wire in addition to all the hots. I have watched electricians wire three phase equipment at work and was surprised how complex it gets some times. They have fancy testing meters to make sure the phases are in the correct order and stuff. Then again the USA 3 phase power is really different than everyone else since it can produce multiple different voltages.

According to the shop I'm buying it from, all of their poweline adapter will work on a multiple phase voltage only if the adapters are on the same phase, and I don't really know if that's the case or not, guess I'll have to buy and try..

 

[nigelivey]

Your phases will be split, you can easily identify by tripping breakers and see if the sockets in the two locations you want go dead. There are indeed powerlines that work on three phase but they are expensive and are generally used in the industrial space for signalling to heavy duty equipment. Some normal powerline adapters will also work across different phases but your mileage will vary.

 

[_Tempo]

Your phases will be split, you can easily identify by tripping breakers and see if the sockets in the two locations you want go dead. There are indeed powerlines that work on three phase but they are expensive and are generally used in the industrial space for signalling to heavy duty equipment. Some normal powerline adapters will also work across different phases but your mileage will vary.

Thanks, but how do I trip breaker? Sorry I just don't exactly understand what is it.

 

[nigelivey]

Your phases will be split, you can easily identify by tripping breakers and see if the sockets in the two locations you want go dead. There are indeed powerlines that work on three phase but they are expensive and are generally used in the industrial space for signalling to heavy duty equipment. Some normal powerline adapters will also work across different phases but your mileage will vary.

Thanks, but how do I trip breaker? Sorry I just don't exactly understand what is it.

You should have a bank of RCDs on your consumer board, flick one off and see what sockets lose power. If your lucky they will be labelled on the board.

 

[_Tempo]

Your phases will be split, you can easily identify by tripping breakers and see if the sockets in the two locations you want go dead. There are indeed powerlines that work on three phase but they are expensive and are generally used in the industrial space for signalling to heavy duty equipment. Some normal powerline adapters will also work across different phases but your mileage will vary.

Thanks, but how do I trip breaker? Sorry I just don't exactly understand what is it.

You should have a bank of RCDs on your consumer board, flick one off and see what sockets lose power. If your lucky they will be labelled on the board.

Oh thanks! I'll sure try it.

 

[_Tempo]

Your phases will be split, you can easily identify by tripping breakers and see if the sockets in the two locations you want go dead. There are indeed powerlines that work on three phase but they are expensive and are generally used in the industrial space for signalling to heavy duty equipment. Some normal powerline adapters will also work across different phases but your mileage will vary.

Thanks, but how do I trip breaker? Sorry I just don't exactly understand what is it.

You should have a bank of RCDs on your consumer board, flick one off and see what sockets lose power. If your lucky they will be labelled on the board.

Though I have lots of electronics working now, guess I'll have to try it when nothing important is on.

 

[oscardbrandt]

bill001g

12 January 2018 02:37:50

You best bet is the newest av2- models. This technology uses the ground wire in addition to all the hots. I have watched electricians wire three phase equipment at work and was surprised how complex it gets some times. They have fancy testing meters to make sure the phases are in the correct order and stuff. Then again the USA 3 phase power is really different than everyone else since it can produce multiple different voltages.

You said that newer models of powerlines support transmitting over the PE/ground conductor. I am very interested in a such model. Do you have any references? Seems my Netgear PLW1000 has AV2, but get very bad signal when powerline receiver is crossed over phases (from 250 mbit to 6 mbit)

 

[bill001g]

bill001g

12 January 2018 02:37:50

You best bet is the newest av2- models. This technology uses the ground wire in addition to all the hots. I have watched electricians wire three phase equipment at work and was surprised how complex it gets some times. They have fancy testing meters to make sure the phases are in the correct order and stuff. Then again the USA 3 phase power is really different than everyone else since it can produce multiple different voltages.

You said that newer models of powerlines support transmitting over the PE/ground conductor. I am very interested in a such model. Do you have any references? Seems my Netgear PLW1000 has AV2, but get very bad signal when powerline receiver is crossed over phases (from 250 mbit to 6 mbit)

There is some variation between brands but there are only a couple of manufactures of the chips inside the box that they all use. All AV2 models function similar since this is all based on a standard called homeplug.

I would not expect a different brand to solve a problem as bad as you are seeing.

 

[oscardbrandt]

bill001g

12 January 2018 02:37:50

You best bet is the newest av2- models. This technology uses the ground wire in addition to all the hots. I have watched electricians wire three phase equipment at work and was surprised how complex it gets some times. They have fancy testing meters to make sure the phases are in the correct order and stuff. Then again the USA 3 phase power is really different than everyone else since it can produce multiple different voltages.

You said that newer models of powerlines support transmitting over the PE/ground conductor. I am very interested in a such model. Do you have any references? Seems my Netgear PLW1000 has AV2, but get very bad signal when powerline receiver is crossed over phases (from 250 mbit to 6 mbit)

There is some variation between brands but there are only a couple of manufactures of the chips inside the box that they all use. All AV2 models function similar since this is all based on a standard called homeplug.

I would not expect a different brand to solve a problem as bad as you are seeing.

Thank you for the fast reply.

Ok. As i understand it the powerline would then transmit on two phases and the ground conductor? Say L1-L2-PE and not just L1-PE or L2-PE?

Regards

Oscar

 

[bill001g]

If you mean on the USA on 110 volt circuits. You have 2 hot leads. So it will transmit on hot1, neutral, ground on one side of the power panel and on hot2, neutral, ground on the other.

This is not technically a different phase but the problem is it is a different hot lead.

Now if you are in the EU then it always transmits on the 2 hots and the ground there is no neutral. If you have true multiple phases the hot lead may not be the same.

One of the new things that block powerlines are the new ARC fault breakers that are required in new construction. Some brands filter the signals and you can have problems even when you are on the same hot lead. The GFCI breakers can cause similar issue but since those are using only for kitchen and bathroom and people seldom put powerline in those rooms you do not hear of much problems

 

[oscardbrandt]

If you mean on the USA on 110 volt circuits. You have 2 hot leads. So it will transmit on hot1, neutral, ground on one side of the power panel and on hot2, neutral, ground on the other.

This is not technically a different phase but the problem is it is a different hot lead.

Now if you are in the EU then it always transmits on the 2 hots and the ground there is no neutral. If you have true multiple phases the hot lead may not be the same.

One of the new things that block powerlines are the new ARC fault breakers that are required in new construction. Some brands filter the signals and you can have problems even when you are on the same hot lead. The GFCI breakers can cause similar issue but since those are using only for kitchen and bathroom and people seldom put powerline in those rooms you do not hear of much problems

Thanks again for answering.

I live in Norway where there are 3 phases in to the fusebox (IT 230V). There is a GFCI on all circuit breakers which may be the source to the problem I am having. Attatching a sketch which shows my setup very generally. (CB is circuit breaker)

Regards

Oscar

 

[bill001g]

That is different from the 3 phase power in the USA. There are actually more than 1. The voltages when measured the way you show would be 208 or 380. This is why you never see it in home installs.

Your problem is likely the same issue you see in the USA on a 120 volt system. If you pretend the l2 was a neutral it would be a similar issue. It should still attempt to send the signal over the ground and the common L2 hot.

The power really does not do anything expect let the unit function. The wires themselves should be though of as a antenna except the antenna is connected on both ends. Powerline actually uses many of the same encoding methods like mimo that wifi does it just transmits the signal over the copper cable rather the air.

 

[oscardbrandt]

That is different from the 3 phase power in the USA. There are actually more than 1. The voltages when measured the way you show would be 208 or 380. This is why you never see it in home installs.

Your problem is likely the same issue you see in the USA on a 120 volt system. If you pretend the l2 was a neutral it would be a similar issue. It should still attempt to send the signal over the ground and the common L2 hot.

The power really does not do anything expect let the unit function. The wires themselves should be though of as a antenna except the antenna is connected on both ends. Powerline actually uses many of the same encoding methods like mimo that wifi does it just transmits the signal over the copper cable rather the air.

So we can conclude that even if the sender/receiver is not on the same phases the signal should be better than my measurements (250 to 6 mbps) because the PE is used in the transmission? There must be another obstruction (like a ground fault circuit breaker or similar).

Appreciate the help.