Question Problem while booting

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

This is the build:
Motherboard: Asus PRIME H310M-A R2.0
CPU: intel i5-8400
RAM: Team Group VULCAN Z DDR4 3200 MHz 32 GB 2 x 16 GB
PSU: Thermaltake Hamburg 530W 80+ W0392RE
GPU: Nvidia msi gtx1660 Super Ventus xs
HDD: Wester Digital WD10EZEX HDD 1TB
SSD: SSD Plus 240GB, Crucial P3 1TB PCIe 3.0 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD
I've recently upgraded the GPU from an amd rx 470, the RAM from a Crucial CT8G4DFS824A.M8FE 1x8GB and added the m.2 ssd.
The ssd was the last piece that i installed because i missed the plastic anchor to secure it to the mobo. After that it worked all fine. One morning i just tried to turn it on and all i got was a black screen, fans spinning and lights in the case on, no beep codes.
I tried everything until the 10th point in this list: https://www.lifewire.com/fix-computer-that-turns-on-but-displays-nothing-2624443.
tell me what else i can try pls

 

[Aeacus]

I tried everything until the 10th point in this list: https://www.lifewire.com/fix-computer-that-turns-on-but-displays-nothing-2624443.

What PSU you used, other than your Thermaltake Hamburg 530W 80+ W0392RE, to complete #9 in that list?

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

What PSU you used, other than your Thermaltake Hamburg 530W 80+ W0392RE, to complete #9 in that list?

I didn't use another PSU, I used a PSU tester, and the values were all good. I'm considering buying a POST test card but since it cost around 40€, I wanted to know what else I can try before I buy it.

 

[Aeacus]

I didn't use another PSU, I used a PSU tester

Then you did not complete step #9.

and the values were all good.

All this does, is like you turning on the car engine and when engine starts, you instantly assume that the car drives just fine, without ever doing the test drive.
So, no. Just turning on the PSU, without putting any load to it, doesn't mean PSU works fine.

Here, you actually need 2nd, known to work and good quality PSU, to test if issue is with your PSU.

PSU: Thermaltake Hamburg 530W 80+ W0392RE

Your Thermaltake PSU is cheap and low quality PSU. Here, it is not much of a surprise that your PSU went belly up. This is what you get, when you cheap out on PSU, which is the most important component inside the PC, because it powers everything.

For 2nd opinion, your PSU is in Tier D,
PSU list: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

Here, anything from Tier A is what i'd suggest, as a PSU replacement. E.g Seasonic Focus series, in 500-600W range.

Now, it is quite possible that even when you replace the PSU, your PC still doesn't work. In this case, something else is dead, killed by your cheap PSU. What exactly? Hard to tell, but you can consider everything that was connected to that PSU - to be dead.
2nd, compatible PC, is then needed, where to test out all your components individually, to see what works and what doesn't.

All-in-all, you can call it a life's tax. (Cheaping out on PSU and then learning the hard way why it was a bad idea, since it killed your PC.)

 

[DSzymborski]

Frightening to think there are still Thermaltake Hamburgs out there powering modern GPUs in rigs newer than 2005. This PSU should never have been used with this build under any circumstances, so replacing the PSU for something far, far better, is the obvious next diagnostic test.

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

Then you did not complete step #9.

So basically the psu can still be working even after it fried the rest of the computer? Or having the correct values doesnt indicate anything?
Still, I will see a new PSU hoping that the problem is only there. Thanks for the answer and suggestion on new PSU

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

Frightening to think there are still Thermaltake Hamburgs out there powering modern GPUs in rigs newer than 2005. This PSU should never have been used with this build under any circumstances, so replacing the PSU for something far, far better, is the obvious next diagnostic test.

Yeah its a built i've had since 2016 but i've only started now to put my hands on it and i didnt knew i had such a terrible PSU...😕

 

[Aeacus]

So basically the psu can still be working even after it fried the rest of the computer?

It might, but why would anyone use the faulty PSU, that has already killed some hardware?

It's like using inferior gasoline with your car. Sure, it's cheap but once it seizes your engine and you need to replace the engine (or the whole car), do you still keep using the inferior gasoline with your new engine/car? If not, then why not?

i didnt knew i had such a terrible PSU...😕

Most people don't think twice on what PSU to get. Often they buy the cheapest since money is mostly reserved to other hardware, especially GPU. But downside is, that if... no, not if, but WHEN the cheap PSU blows and takes the PC with it. Saving 50 bucks on PSU often results in loosing far more, hundreds, even thousands when cheap PSU kills other hardware.

It's actually quite amusing to see, that many people are willing to cheap out on a PSU on a heartbeat but are extremely stubborn when they have to downgrade the GPU purchase, to one or two levels down (e.g instead of RTX 3070, they should go with RTX 3060), just to free up funds to buy better PSU.

 

[Dark Lord of Tech]

Why the 3200 mhz. MEMORY on that series board?

 

[Aeacus]

Why the 3200 mhz. MEMORY on that series board?

Good catch, since OP MoBo ever supports max 2666 Mhz RAM,
MoBo specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-h310m-a-r2-0/techspec/

Only reason i can think of, is that this specific 3200 Mhz RAM was actually cheaper than 2133/2400/2666 Mhz RAM. But if it wasn't, it was wasted money on the RAM.

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

why would anyone use the faulty PSU, that has already killed some hardware?

I just asked out of curiosity. After knowing that the PSU was the fault, and probably killed the rest of the computer with it, I wouldn't dare to use it again.

It's actually quite amusing to see

I can see lol.
I wanted to ask too if you have any recommendation inside the A tier inside the tier list, knowing my specs (hoping that only the psu died)

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

Why the 3200 mhz. MEMORY on that series board?

As Aeacus ( i dont know how to tag people or if you can) suggested it actually was cheaper, and to spit it all out the SSD too bottlenecks with the MoBo to my understanding, because of chipset limitation.

 

[Aeacus]

I wanted to ask too if you have any recommendation inside the A tier inside the tier list, knowing my specs (hoping that only the psu died)

Wattage range for your build would be 650W. 550W PSU would do too, but 650W gives comfy headroom.

Good quality PSU to go for, are: Seasonic Focus series (any) and Corsair RM/RMx/RMi,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/WrNypg,yc38TW,2HbwrH,CRC48d/

But if you've now turned completely around and want to get the best money can buy, then Seasonic PRIME (preferably 80+ Titanium efficiency) or Super Flower Leadex III Pro,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/qZKhP6,fnjJ7P,NFqBD3/

(All 3 of my PCs: Skylake, Haswell and AMD are powered by Seasonic. I have one Focus 550 80+ Platinum and two PRIME 650 80+ Titanium PSUs. Full specs with pics in my sig.)

i dont know how to tag people or if you can

Type @ and follow it by username. Pop-up appears when first letters are typed in. Afterwards select correct user, to get e.g: @NoIdeaWhatImDoing.

the SSD too bottlenecks with the MoBo to my understanding, because of chipset limitation.

Not quite.

While it is true that your MoBo is bottom of the barrel of Intel 300-series chipset, by being the barebones H310, it is not all MoBo fault.

For one, your SSD has poor performance to begin with,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crucial-p3-ssd-review

And for two, your CPU only has 16 PCI-E lanes,
specs: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crucial-p3-ssd-review

Since GTX 1660 Super needs 16 lanes and M.2 NVMe needs 4 lanes, from somewhere must come the needed lanes for M.2.
Either your GPU runs with 12 lanes and M.2 with 4 lanes, or GPU has 14 lanes and M.2 has 2 lanes.
If former, GPU performance can drop, if latter, SSD performance drops.

Also, it is possible that 16 PCI-E lanes that CPU has, are all reserved for GPU, while the 4 PCI-E lanes needed for M.2 are provided by MoBo chipset. If so, PCI-E lanes provided by MoBo chipset are far slower than those provided by CPU.

So, MoBo chipset doesn't limit your M.2 performance. Instead, it's the combination of CPU PCI-E lanes limitation and poor SSD performance out of the factory.

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

If former, GPU performance can drop, if latter, SSD performance drops.

As I understand from https://www.cgdirector.com/guide-to-pcie-lanes/ probably the computer was running on 8 lanes for the GPU, with a minimal loss of performance since it's gen 3 PCIe, and 4 for the M.2 NVMe, so no bottlenecking from the lanes, but, as it's said on the MoBo manual, the port in PCIe mode it's limited to only gen 2 PCIe, resulting in a bottleneck of the SSD. Correct me if I'm wrong (thanks for the recommendations on the PSU)

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

Seasonic Focus series (any)

Currently thinking that the Seasonic focus PX 650w is the best choice, but around the same price there is the PRIME gx, how is the prime series better than the focus? And, is the downgrade from platinum of the focus px to gold of the prime gx too big of a downgrade that the focus px is still better?
Fairly cheap compared to the other two there is the corsair rmx 750w that is an 80plus gold rating, how does it compare to the other two?

 

[Aeacus]

how is the prime series better than the focus?

PRIME series is the flagship line from Seasonic, offering the best possible. Also, PRIME series is the only PSU, in entire world, that comes with 12 years of warranty! No other PSU brand/OEM offers more than 10 years of warranty, even when you go with their flagship unit, e.g Corsair AXi.

Focus is Seasonic mid-tier lineup. But considering how good the Focus series is, it is often far better than what competitors offer. Focus PX comes with 10 years of warranty and build quality wise, is comparable to Corsair RMx/RMi.

Focus PX-650 review: https://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/seasonic-focus-px-650-platinum-review/
PRIME GX-850 review: https://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/seasonic-prime-850w-gold-psu-review/
RMx-750 review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm750x-2021-power-supply-review

Sure, Focus PX has better efficiency than PRIME Gold, but efficiency alone doesn't state PSU's build quality. Hence why lower efficiency, but better built PRIME Gold is almost equal to the price of Focus PX. Both PSUs are solid choice and it matters little which of the Seasonic unit you'd go for.


Since PSU is most important component inside the PC, i've gone above and beyond regarding PSUs in my PC. I've bought the best PSUs money can buy: Seasonic PRIME Titanium units. Only my old PC, running Athlon II CPU and Win XP, i've gone a bit light and bought Focus PX-550 for it. But my main builds are running the best in the world. That also due to the reason that i also have UPSes, and great PSU efficiency extends the UPS runtime (also, electricity bill is a bit less).

Fairly cheap compared to the other two there is the corsair rmx 750w that is an 80plus gold rating, how does it compare to the other two?

Since Corsair is far bigger than Seasonic, it has numbers behind it and can lower the PSU price. Hence why RMx-750 is quite cheap compared to the Seasonic. Either that, or retailers have loads of leftover stock, that they want to get rid of, and thus, lower the PSU price.

Build quality wise, i'd say Corsair RMx-750 is comparable to Seasonic Focus GX-750. Both offer 10 years of warranty and are good PSUs.
I, personally, prefer Seasonic more, since Seasonic is OEM and makes their own PSUs. Corsair is just a brand and sells other PSU OEM units. E.g Corsair RMx-750 is made by CWT (Channel Well Technology). Corsair even sells Seasonic made units. E.g Corsair AX lineup is made by Seasonic.

 

[NoIdeaWhatImDoing.]

efficiency alone doesn't state PSU's build quality.

After all I went for the PRIME gx, I think this experience taught me the importance of better build quality. Thanks for all the advices and explanations.

 

[DSzymborski]

So basically the psu can still be working even after it fried the rest of the computer? Or having the correct values doesnt indicate anything?
Still, I will see a new PSU hoping that the problem is only there. Thanks for the answer and suggestion on new PSU

They're not really correct values. It's how a PSU reacts to a system at a load that matters. Not simply a basic voltage readout.

A "PSU Tester" doesn't really do much other than check basic functionality, out of the context of a PC. Actually testing a PSU involves an oscilloscope and a load tester, which will run you several thousand dollars.

 

[DSzymborski]

After all I went for the PRIME gx, I think this experience taught me the importance of better build quality. Thanks for all the advices and explanations.

Excellent, how is the system running, if it all?