problems with 4th gen i7 4770 and 1080ti

[Karadjgne]

Op, I've read the entire post, and I understand fully your claims about the Panamax. However, I also understand about what mdd1963 is trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to say. The Panamax has limitations built in, such as over/under voltage, bank 3 is unlimited amperage draw, bank 1 is always on etc. But, you have several other pieces of equipment also on that same line at the wall. There's several scenarios that play out here, one of which is that fact that the Panamax just might be too good at its job. The 1080 can and will create massive, almost instant demands on the psu, which is why the psu needs to be quality and gaming oriented vrs office usage. This instant high demand has to come from somewhere and the choke is the Panamax that's in between the wall and the psu. At what the psu is suddenly putting out in relation to what it was, it's possible the Panamax is thinking there's an issue and tripping that bank.
It's also possible that there's some back feed from a bad ground on other equipment, which is beyond the power cleaner part and in the banks that's reversing up the psu ground and making things nutty.
What mdd1963 is saying, is that on order to rule out any possible occlusion, take the cleaner out of the equation. It's not a question of clean power supplied. Common usage for hardware issues is called breadboarding. You take everything out of the case and use just the mobo, 1 stick of Ram, cpu and cooler and the pc speaker. No gpu, no hdd, no case, nothing. Eliminating any possible suspects. Bare minimum.

By plugging in the pc direct to mains, you eliminate possible issues from external sources like the other pc, the Panamax itself etc.

 

[castortroysi]

Thank you, that makes better sense. The power at my structure has many black outs and worse, brown-outs. Its not going to be easy to get me to try one of these gaming sessions to test for stability over the course of an entire day, or two to be sure the crashing is gone, without using any protection from this filthy power here. Even though I have switched the two gaming PCs here between the power banks, and their GPUs and still get the crashing only on my system, I will try to isolate the power source with a generic surge protector and report back, as I am desperate to find the cause and solution to this issue.

I still don't understand how this new GPU can cause a higher OR a faster power draw change in this system than the 780 that has a higher wattage rating, but I digress and I will eliminate the power cleaner and test again. Stay tuned!

 

[Karadjgne]

The 780 does have a higher power draw, true, but it's minimum is a lot closer to its maximum, so the range of draw is relatively small. The pascal gpus can operate on very low draw minimums, for let's say a black screen during a transition, to full on max an instant later with an ultra detailed countryside full of grass. It cutting it kinda close to basically going from off to max.

Or it could be something as inane as VRM's/ram overheating due to bad workmanship, a factory defect, which will not show up on card temps, as those temps are not monitored, only the gpu itself is. (sorta like the cpu is monitored, but the ram isn't). Could be that certain games hit just the right levels of intensity to overdrive the cards mosfets, and you get a gpu shutdown / back feed, which reboots the pc. End result is its nothing more than a video card that could stand to be Rma'd. The fact that a different card of higher power draw is unaffected, brings proof of that. Eliminating any other possible causes, just narrows down this possibility. On the other hand, if eliminating the Panamax seems to also solve the issue, that's another question.

 

[castortroysi]

Ok, test complete. Bypassing the Panamax power conditioner resulted in the same crashing issues.

This issue also is occuring with an alternate 1080ti founders edition card that was my original upgrade from the 780. The current card having issues is a ftw3 with 9 temp sensors throughout the card all giving 65c temps or below at all times, including time of crash. The second system here is stable with the ftw3 card. So, the user is getting it for now until I need to test to solve this issue and my system is stable with the 780. Ultimately I need to find what is causing this issue and I want to get what I paid for with this entire system. Hopefully it won't have to come down to replacing the entire mobo but this is such a sneaky, hidden problem I really need expert help in uncovering the cause of this!

halp me!

 

[mdd1963]

Once you've ruled out the PSU and GPUs in question (you said the two different 1080 GPUs test good elsewhere), that pretty much leaves your motherboard, assuming you have no other internal hardware (as in any add-in cards, a heavy load of 10 spinning drives, etc) in your case potentially heavily loading the system....; I'd even remove any sound card, add-on wireless, etc.....

Even a partial short at a SATA power connection from a marginal molex adapter can cause a system to reset/reboot/not boot...

This problem sure sounds frustrating.

Good luck.

 

[castortroysi]

Thank you! Yeah, I've pretty much determined before I even posted here its probably the mobo. I was really hoping there were like mobo technicians here that could lend a hand. If not... I would say that this is yet another case of planned obsolescence. Apple's business model is really becoming quite popular, especially in the hands of the top engineers out there. Thanks guys! Turns out even the high end equipment isn't meant to last over time, only under stressful situations during its planned lifespan.

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm not convinced it's the mobo, as such. You'll only get upto a 90w draw or so, maxed, from the pcie x16, which the pascal cards don't pull, so realistically there's no physical difference between a 780 and the 1080. And the 780 works with no issue. Only thing I can think of now, with cards that work, is some sort of uefi bios Incompatibility, which usually doesn't happen on boards past the z77's.
It's that, or it really is a bad socket that's fine with upto 50w draw, but at 51w has issues, and the 780 is only pulling upto 49w so never sees a problem.

 

[castortroysi]

It has 2 x16 slots. Lets see what happens in slot 2.

 

[castortroysi]

Still crashes.

I understand when you can log temps and study the data when something as important and utterly significant as a HARD SHUT DOWN occurs.

But when a system is built to just shut down and has no way of identifying the trigger.... PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.

I actually just came off a 14hr gaming session with the 780 on this system. 10min into the game with the 1080ti... CRASH

 

[mdd1963]

Some sort of 'bizarro world' of 'incompatible mixture' of otherwise great quality parts which combine together somehow into a huge pile of instability...makes *no* sense...

 

[Karadjgne]

When you are swapping these gpus, I'm assuming you are reseting the drivers? Clean install? The nvidia core drivers are all the same, but there are game optimizations for each card of differing levels. So the cards will plug-n-play swap, but if you are running optimizations for a Maxwell gpu, that's going to be different for a Pascal gpu. I'm not exactly sure exactly what the optimizations are, but I'd not be surprised at different levels of current, voltages, instruction sets etc.

 

[castortroysi]

Yes indeed, safe mode, wipe drivers, reinstall etc... anyway, I've gone to the trouble of swapping out the motherboards between the two PCs and I'll be doing some tests to report back here. Stay tuned!

 

[Karadjgne]

*crosses fingers* (throws in toes for good measure)

 

[castortroysi]

Still crashed. Only thing left is CPU. I guess running the 2400 ram OC'd the CPU and burned it out. So strange how it won't crash with the 780, though.

 

[castortroysi]

Ok, so.... If its CPU, the warranty ran out 4mo ago. The solutions I can think of: find a second hand i7 to replace it and run the risk of that one having the same issues, buy a whole new mobo/ram/cpu steup for an amount of money I do not have to spend currently, run a 780 for stability with out being able to utilize this 1080ti just purchased, or...???

 

[JasonGriffis]

Ok, so.... If its CPU, the warranty ran out 4mo ago. The solutions I can think of: find a second hand i7 to replace it and run the risk of that one having the same issues, buy a whole new mobo/ram/cpu steup for an amount of money I do not have to spend currently, run a 780 for stability with out being able to utilize this 1080ti just purchased, or...???

Read the entire thread and am wondering what virus protection software is being used, along with any other programs "actively running" in the background like this. Also, do you have more than one HDMI audio driver running at the same time? (check your device manager; sound device settings). I personally have had both of these issues cause restarts for various reasons each. Ex. Avira virus scan known to cause issues, multiple HDMI sound drivers known to cause issues and system stutters. Do you hear any noise at the point of the shutdown?