Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[Saga Lout]

I hope Dr. Tom Pabst doesn't feel the same way, JG.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Pretty sure he does though.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Well, I bought an EVGA GD600 80+ Gold to go into a system i intend to resell. It literally cost me $40 on ebay.

Let's see how it goes. It's going to power either a 1070/ti or an RTX 2060.

 

[King_V]

@Darkbreeze Okay, so 650W CV appears to be something akin to Masterwatt. This isn't 100% definitive though.

I'm sort of finding this a bit after the fact - so is the CV generally an "avoid it" the way we would say for the VS?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I would avoid it to power any semi high power draw systems.

Something like a 3400g or even a 3400g plus a gtx 1650, its fine.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

EVGA GD 600w 80+ Gold - Teardown

I have been curious about this model ever since it released. On paper, it appears to offer good performance and upon release, the pricing was very competitive with hefty rebates offered.

Right now, the EVGA GD 600w can be had from Newegg for $60 + shipping after a mail-in $20 rebate. From Amazon, this unit is $80 with free shipping.

If you do not mind a mail-in rebate, The pricing of this unit seems compelling compared to similar (on paper) units like a 600w BeQuiet Pure Power 11 80+ Gold which costs $80.

Basic specs:

600w Continous power
80+ Gold Certification with "90% (115VAC) / 92% (220VAC~240VAC) efficiency or higher under typical loads"
5-year warranty
Non-Modular cabling
0-40c temperature rating
120mm Sleeve Bearing Fan
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-GD-0600-V1
https://www.evga.com/products/Specs/PSU.aspx?pn=525bb79b-f9fa-43ff-9740-1258e40973ec
This PSU is offered in 500, 600, and 700w varients.

I recently acquired a GD600 and decided to tear mine apart, mainly out of curiosity, however, you may find the teardown entertaining.

Disclaimer, I know very, very, little about power supplies, and this is not a review of any capacity, just a teardown detailing the inside of the PSU. Without being able to find reputable reviews of this 2019 version (that I can find), I would not recommend this unit. The fact EVGA didn't send review samples to reviewers does not inspire confidence in me.

Spoiler: How I acquired this unit

A couple of days ago I found an EVGA GD 600w 80+ Gold on eBay for $40, and shipping was less than $10. I needed this PSU for a PC I'm building where all black cables are a must and I also needed decent performance for overclocking.

Given its a 2019 release, it must be around or less than a year old, even though it is used.

Spoiler: On the Surface

Here is the label on the side with output specifications included:

https://ibb.co/DwLN8tz

The rated 600w continuous power is entirely available on the 12v rail. Having 50A rated on the 12V rail is surely impressive, and it is always reassuring to see all of the rated power available on the 12v rail.

Around back, there is a hard power switch and a standard power connector. No voltage switch is present, which is typical for a decent unit with active PFC, though low end units like EVGA's own N1 400w PSU lack this feature.

https://ibb.co/VCG9Mnk

Spoiler: A dig inside

Now for the actual bit I care about:

I broke out my Ifixit kit and a T2 Torx bit to open this unit. I had to tear a "Warranty Void if Removed" sticker, despite my best efforts with a hairdryer.

A look inside:
https://ibb.co/vQYhRWT
Looking deeper, it seems that the vast majority of the capacitors in this unit are Teapo branded. Not a top tear brand, but pretty decent.
A look at the Teapo capacitors:
https://ibb.co/8mGqqp7

On EVGA's documentation, they boast a "Japanese Main capacitor." I am assuming they are referring to the largest bright blue capacitor. There are no visible brand names on this capacitor and searching the text on the capacitor doesn't return anything relevant.

https://ibb.co/vwB9syZ

I was looking for the protections IC, however, I am unable to which is the correct chip. Here are the 3 I can see. There is one that is in a place covered by the heat sync, so I can't see that one.

https://ibb.co/ZTGcv1T
Data Sheet:
http://www.anpec.com.tw/ashx_prod_f...081023144423884.pdf&original_name=APW7073.pdf
https://ibb.co/MS8CtRM

https://ibb.co/Jcz7q0k

Also, here is a picture of the fan:

https://ibb.co/1KrGHGS

Just a little note, my model has a different shape fan cutout and 1 letter difference in the model name than the one linked, however, this is for sure not the older version as these came in x50w versions.

 

[Juular]

Just a little note, my model has a different shape fan cutout and 1 letter difference in the model name than the one linked, however, this is for sure not the older version as these came in x50w versions.

So there seems to be two EVGA GD 2019 revisions then, care to tell what model number you got exactly and how that fan grille looks ?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

My units fan grille:
https://ibb.co/hfF8nwH

20200314-114824-1 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200314-114824-1 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

EVGA's web page for the GD600:
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-GD-0600-V1
Different fan grill can be seen.

The part number of mine is "100-GD-0600-B1"
The part number on EVGAs webpage is "100-GD-0600-V1"

Sorry for the poor quality images, but they are good enough to see the fan grille differences.

The label with specs on the side of the PSU is identical.

I tried to register the PSU with EVGA. When I imputed the serial number it came up with the exact model number on my PSU, so it is for sure an EVGA model and not a fake or something.

 

[Juular]

The part number of mine is "100-GD-0600-B1"
The part number on EVGAs webpage is "100-GD-0600-V1"

So there actually two versions of 2019 version of EVGA GD then, EVGA WHY ?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

It gets better!

They are probably significantly different in the inside too:

Here is the GD -V1 viewed from the rear where you can see the insides a bit.
https://images.evga.com/products/gallery/100-GD-0600-V1_XL_7.jpg
Here is mine from the back.
https://ibb.co/9p10jwz

20200314-120232 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200314-120232 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

https://ibb.co/3YwsVg5

20200314-120241 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20200314-120241 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Components are different inside.

 

[Juular]

They are probably significantly different in the inside too

They are, V1 are FSP Raider II-ish, close to EVGA GQ, your B1 are Andyson PAD07 and we don't have any reviews for this platform yet.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

They are, V1 are FSP Raider II-ish, close to EVGA GQ, your B1 are Andyson PAD07 and we don't have any reviews for this platform yet.

Where are you finding this?

I would be ok with the FSP based one. Also, the EVGA GQ line is pretty alright.

However, I don't know about an Andyson platform, as most Andyson based PSUs are not great iirc.

 

[Juular]

Where are you finding this?

V1 revision :
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?14041-EVGA-450GD-550GD-650GD
Here's another pal wondering if there were changes in platform for GD as it looks different (same blue capacitor as on your one).
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?16906-EVGA-new-GD-series
Here's Andyson PAD07 (which is also used in the new Antec Neo Eco Zen Gold) :
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?17300-ANDYSON-SFX&p=162047#post162047

 

[NightHawkRMX]

No, the top link is the older Chinese market "V7" model that comes in 450,550, and 650w versions.
Judging by the photos of the new PSU rear, the V1 is different internally to the V7. My "B1" PSU also looks different inside.

As I said, it's near impossible to find a review of the 2019 one.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I may go share my investigation on the jonnyguru forums

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's probably not the worst idea. Despite the attitudes of some of those folks, they are still generally the best informed and most experienced with all these platforms and architectures, so there is hardly any place better for getting such information.

 

[LukeSavenije]

FWIW, in my opinion, having looked at and spoken with Luke IN DEPTH regarding that list, it is laughable

can i just say this is absolutely laughable? you have literally called me out for snob for giving evidence, don't take that i work with good foreign reviewers which you refuse to look at because of your bias to Jon/Tass/Aris and can't look at tweakpc for example, while they are sponsored by Chroma for their good work and work with similar tools.

One thing is for certain. Nobody ever bought a crappy power supply if the followed the recommendations on the first page of this thread. Quite a few people have purchased trash following that tier list, because there are some very questionable units listed in positions that they should never, ever, be listed on. End of story.

except those people that skipped FSP, be quiet, chieftec, some evga psus, cooler master, Thermaltake, aerocool, HEC, Sharkoon and simply just ones that you don't list because you set them in a dark spot.

The only difference between the corsair CV 2019 and VS 2017 is the efficiency

for 450 and 550, correct. the 650 is based off the cougar lx/be quiet system power 9/cooler master masterwatt platform.

S12iii on paper looks like a more modern PSU than an S12ii. Sounds great, until you realize that this PSU is not actually made my SeaSonic and actually some Asian company with a poor reputation. I can't even pronounce the name.

that "asian company" is called RSY, and also produces part of S12ii, M12ii and Superflower's PSUs. the only reason they have a bad reputation here is because of what happened with B3 early on.

Honestly, LTT likes to hate on SeaSonic for issues that really aren't that important. For example early SeaSonic Focus power supplies had an issue that really wasn't severe but seasonic adressed and fixed with all new units, yet the people at ltt still act as the issue exists

maybe it's good for you to know that I work on this kind of stuff WITH seasonic. I have a rep i talk to often around their PSUs, and they provide me the info i need as far as I could. I have nothing against them.

Just a little unrelated note, I find it quite sad that the early CX PSUs were based on Seasonic S12ii and then they later swapped platforms to Great Wall and degraded quality for the 2012 models.

cwt... and the 750w/850w versions actually used the same PUQ-B platform as the 2015/2017 CXM. the old one wasn't actually s12ii, but rather S12, as said by Jon himself in the CX/CXM cheat sheet.

Yet LTT only cares about performance and not potential reliability concerns, so the S12iii is placed higher than an S12ii.

no, i care about protections, and s12ii has no 12v uvp, hence it's placed there. but people here don't seem to understand what can happen without that. here you can see why I don't recommend it for example: some crossload data from a Russian reviewer, since the prefered ones either got lost or don't have crossload data.
https://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_s12ii-620_bronze_ss-620gb_2015/?s=all
https://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_s12ii-520_bronze_ss-520gb_2015/?s=all

now it can happen as that is why we are seeing 12V only PSUs coming out, but I still feel this is unrealistic.

is it? a very low load on minor and high on 12v is actually a very usual load...

Seems to happen with cards like 980ti, 970 as well.

I haven't heard of it with 970, only 980ti.

this was only the 970 strix and focus in earlier batches due to an oversensitive OCP.

with that there have been recent changes to position of the "psus i hate" to move them just below tier a, if they have minor issues like focus and G3 had. with that there have recently been changes to G5 that you probably have missed, fixing the earlier ripple issues.

then, to the fun part. calling my list a joke is outright offending, your behavior has been to me just because i made that list and have tried to defend me this way. making a huge drama around it just because someone links it here and removing the link just because you don't want it to be seen here because you don't agree with 3 placements just makes it worse. I work with foreign reviewers as long as i can see their data make sense, but there is also a very common chance that things are just the same platform, which reviews can show and let me place them along the possibly better tested units at your prefered sites.

but hey, there's a reason i call this thread a joke as well

 

[LukeSavenije]

also, just for the notice

I really like the idea of yours here, by writing out some popular PSUs based off reviews, with the advantages and disadvantages, and if you were to do this in a short format it would be very readable for people. Link the review below it for the more in-depth people and it gets quite good, and actually a project I would love to support as much as I could. But for now I find it not to recommend

 

[NightHawkRMX]

no, i care about protections, and s12ii has no 12v uvp, hence it's placed there. but people here don't seem to understand what can happen without that. here you can see why I don't recommend it for example: some crossload data from a Russian reviewer, since the prefered ones either got lost or don't have crossload data.
https://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_s12ii-620_bronze_ss-620gb_2015/?s=all
https://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_s12ii-520_bronze_ss-520gb_2015/?s=all

Can you show me a case where this lack of protection or one of the other issues with a SeaSonic s12ii/m12ii has caused damage to a system? I legitamately haven't see it.

However,

The poor quality of a Corsair CX green label has caused damage to systems in many threads i have seen here. Even a moderator here had a board killed by a cx600.

Yet a cx green is ranked higher?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

except those people that skipped FSP, be quiet, chieftec, some evga psus, cooler master, Thermaltake, aerocool, HEC, Sharkoon and simply just ones that you don't list because you set them in a dark spot.

I may be misunderstanding you.

However, i would much rather have a short list of psus that are all good but may be missing some models than a list that i find simply inaccurate in some ways.

And there is a disclaimer that explains this list is not all inclusive of every PSU ever made.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

also, just for the notice

I really like the idea of yours here, by writing out some popular PSUs based off reviews, with the advantages and disadvantages, and if you were to do this in a short format it would be very readable for people. Link the review below it for the more in-depth people and it gets quite good, and actually a project I would love to support as much as I could. But for now I find it not to recommend

I can actually get behind this.

Maybe have a simple version first with each psu linked to a review.

Then have the curren version below it.

 

[OllympianGamer]

The riotoro enigma psu I bought is a rebadged seasonic focus plus but they are actually cheaper, the guy in the shop I bought it at couldn't speak more highly of it even though I'd never heard of them so figured I'd give it a shot and have been pleasantly surprised. Never see anything about Riotoro anywhere but they seem like a fairly decent company.

 

[LukeSavenije]

Can you show me a case where this lack of protection or one of the other issues with a SeaSonic s12ii/m12ii has caused damage to a system? I legitamately haven't see it.

I've seen some cases, but I'll be honest and say that most of them were due to user error, by for example using the wrong cables. Though wider spread cases with group regulation and higher power components are hard to show outside of tests that have happened, since many can't see the lifespan difference. the main theoratical problem I have with s12ii is in the case of a voltage drop like you saw here earlier with the w1 and masterwatt lite, is that there is no 12v UVP to catch it.

to explain the group regulation part, I'll quote a part of an article i wrote a while ago:
problem 1: Group regulation and crossloads

the main problem with group regulated units is that it regulates 12v and 5v together. as noted above these days the only big use for 5v is part of the motherboard and storage, which keeps the load on it quite low, while modern systems have the heaviest components on 12v. In the PSU world we use the word "crossload" for loading up one rail a lot, while the others little to none (either from 3.3/5/12v). When the 12v is loaded up far enough, the controller can't keep the 5v in control, as they're reported together and starts to go out of ATX specification as the controller thinks it's only rising the 12v. especially since some of the units above don't have undervoltage protection, this can have results from shorter lifespan of components to in very bad cases burnt cables. ATX specification only allows a difference up to 5% between rails. They can also fail ATX specification easily when the minor (3.3/5v) are loaded up, while the 12v is kept at the minimal 0.1a

Problem 2: Low load operation
The PSU is required to output voltages while the 12v is at only 0.05a, which is for most group regulated units impossible to do with the crossloading problems mentioned above. not meeting this is again a fail for ATX specification for Haswell.

The poor quality of a Corsair CX green label has caused damage to systems in many threads i have seen here. Even a moderator here had a board killed by a cx600.

I won't deny that low wattage CX was good, but due to methodology it is placed in tier c, but of course this can be argued over to me, but i don't have RMA numbers on PSUs, unfortunately.

However, i would much rather have a short list of psus that are all good but may be missing some models than a list that i find simply inaccurate in some ways.

again, with the limit to certain reviewers this list couldn't get that wide in the first place, but to miss units like the CWT GPU based units, and a bit of a lack of explenation on others I would love to see that improved.

just to show my idea in an example

Corsair:
VS 2015:

• has UVP on all rails
• has OTP
• meets c6/c7 sleep states

• is group regulated
• OCP/OPP is set a bit too high

Conclusion: recommended for APU systems

CX 2017:

• has UVP on all rails
• has OTP
• uses dc-dc
• meets c6/c7 sleep states
• uses LLC resonant

• non-modular
• single rail
• can be on the louder side

conclusion: recommended for budget to midrange systems

RMx 2015/2018:

• full protection set
• well-built semi-fanless
• fully modular

• single rail
• rifle bearing fan

conclusion: recommended for high end single-GPU setups

AX1600i:

• full protection set
• currently most efficient PSU on the market
• digital keepabilities
• FDB fan

- very expensive

conclusion: recommended for the absulute highest end of rigs

 

[LukeSavenije]

The riotoro enigma psu I bought is a rebadged seasonic focus plus but they are actually cheaper, the guy in the shop I bought it at couldn't speak more highly of it even though I'd never heard of them so figured I'd give it a shot and have been pleasantly surprised. Never see anything about Riotoro anywhere but they seem like a fairly decent company.

you mean enigma G2? indeed a focus rebrand, and since recently shifted to their new GX platform.

their other PSUs that i know of are the engima Gold (the older one), which is close to TXM

and the Onyx, which is close to the CX

so the other two are made by greatwall

 

[NightHawkRMX]

The original enigmas are indeed greatwall based and very very simmilar to corsair designs.

According to Aris its basically a Corsair cs850 but with some cost cuts.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/riotoro-enigma-850w-psu,4910-3.html

Even though the review doesn't seem too positive it really isnt bad since the pricing is great at times.

My friend wanted to upgrade his tt smart (good idea) and wanted a 850 or more watt despite me telling him he didn't need it.

He bought a Riotoro Enigma 850w gold for like $80 or $90 late last year. So far it has treated him well and handles his high power draw hardware (5.1ghz 9900k and overclocked 2080 super) just fine.