Psystar: We're Not Shutting Down for Good

[back_by_demand]

If the EULA states that the software is not to be used for a clean install, how come they have a guide that tells you how to do it?

This whole thing comes full circle, it is about one thing and one thing only, Apple wants everyone who uses OSX to invest a couple thousand dollars on overpriced hardware. Plain and simple. A company comes along and proves to people that it doesn't have to be this way, so Apple grinds them under its Nazi jackboot.

So when Psystar says, "Fine, we will stop selling the equipment, but we won't stop telling people how to do it themselves", I say "Fuckin' Amen to that, Brother!"

 

[mj4358]

Thats the problem your trying to think and posting stupid comments! So your crying because Apple isn't forced to install more than one OS? What other PC manufacturer installs more than one OS just to give customers a choice? I live in Germany and No local manufacture does that. And since when is it a requirement that an OS must support another vendors Hardware? So now that MS got their pepe spanked you wanna see apple suffer too? Pressing for this to apply to Apple just because you hate them is simplistic and lacking foresight. DUMBASS!

Also, the EU has no bearing on the United States when it comes to Anti-trust laws so i don't know why your even bringing this up.


In regards to MS VS Netscape; I never said it did have anything to do with the current ruling. And if you use your computer and do some research about the case and stop shooting from the hip and leave the baseless opinions out; you would know that case also argued that since Microsoft was giving away the browser with the OS they had an Unfair advantage along with the API manipulation to prevent other browsers from working correctly. DUMBASS!

 

[producepete]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]If the EULA states that the software is not to be used for a clean install, how come they have a guide that tells you how to do it?[/citation]

It has nothing to do with upgrade/clean install. Copy and pasted straight from Apple's OSX EULA:

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Upgrade license for the Apple Software, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time.

And just for fun, straight from Windows 7 EULA:
8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the features included in the software edition you licensed. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.


Limiting how software is used can stink, but companies all over do it, and if they put the work into it, I guess it is their right to impose the restrictions.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]producepete[/nom]In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.[/citation]
This does not mean that an "upgrade" version is unable to do a clean install. The limitation imposed is that you must have a valid license key for it afterwards. For example the Student offer is an "upgrade" version. If I run it over my existing Vista I use my existing Vista license key, if I run the clean install I have to use the license key I bought with the download.

If I buy a copy of OSX Snow Leopard from the Apple shop then supposedly that is also an upgrade only for installation over the older version of OSX. If the EULA is so watertight, how come it has a license key and can be used totally legitimately to install on a brand new hard drive if the old one suffers a mechanical failure?

The EULA isn't a list of things that the software is not able to do. It is a list of things they don't want you to do, but know full well that you can do them if you want, but if you do they are not responsible for the outcome. Standard disclaimer. Cherry picking stuff from and EULA is a bitch, show me your degree in contract law and i'll give you $50 right now.

 

[pyr8t]

I'd like to see a Hackintosh running on fake RAMBUS... now that would be a quality show in the courts.

 

[mj4358]

Apple does not and has never used a License Key for their OS in the 6 yrs of using macs for their software.

 

[back_by_demand]

It still installs clean on a new hard drive. It does not require a previous version of OSX to be there. Dont you get it?

 

[mj4358]

Where in my response did I say anything about it needing a previous version?
This is what I was refering too!

"If the EULA is so watertight, how come it has a license key and can be used totally legitimately to install on a brand new hard drive if the old one suffers a mechanical failure?"


Key words "License Key" You did not clarify your insipid statements. If you dont want missunderstandings then have a cogent thought that holds water and not these inane statements you usaually post! You get that?

 

[back_by_demand]

Exactly what point are you trying to make? I'm really sorry I didn't clarify my statement to your satisfaction, maybe if you clarified your statements as well everyone else would join in and be so wonderfully fucking perfect like you.

Apple allows other OS's to run on their hardware

Sorry, no mention of bootcamp here?

This brings me to another point, if Apple dont really care if you buy a a Mac then run Windows on it... then why would they care if you tried to run OSX on a PC unless it was motivated by greed and selling overpriced hardware?

 

[mj4358]

What individual ( regular customer) has been sued by Apple? If you went and bought OSX SL and installed it on your PC. Apple wouldnt be the wiser or even care. But if you bundle the os with Non- Apple hardware and sell it then thats a problem.
And Yes Apple is after Money...I mean what company isnt? I would hope that you would stop stating the obvious and realize their main purpose for OSX is to get you to buy their "overpriced haredware" . The OS is the disinction between Dell,Gateway and Acer...etc. Otherwise they would be just another boutiqe PC manufacture like Alienware, VooDoo, and Maingear that offer nothing more at a higher price than what you currently have or could build cheaper.

 

[back_by_demand]

No individual will ever be sued by Apple for "breaching" the EULA and instalkling on a PC, because they know that irrespective of what the EULA states a Judge will not enforce it.
Apple - Sue that guy, he bought our OS and ran it on a PC
Judge - So what, case closed.

If I was Psystar I would upload Rebel EFI for the attention of every torrent tracker out there. Apple are determined to put them out of business so they should burn the bridge before they go.

 

[mj4358]

I dont think Apple will pursue Psystar any further. They just wanted to stop a trend of cloning Apple at their expense.
Think back when Apple was in sad shape and was on the brink of death. No company cared about Apple . Software makers didnt write for the OS, Peripheral makers didnt bother with them either. Now everyone is up in Arms because OSX is only to be used on Apple Brand computers. Allot of people believe its their right to do as they please when they buy software. I dont necessarily like all aspects of the limitation software makers place on users but I can understand why they do it.
See Dell,HP, Gateway, Acer set a precedent when they went into this price war with each other and raced to the bottom of the barrel in prices just so they can have "market share". Now they are in a catch 22 because in order for them to maintain last yrs profits they have to expand market share or at least maintain what they have.
Customers now dont place value on innovation when it comes to hardware but on who can sell me the cheapest hardware. True people do chase the processor for speed but thats just on part of a computer. Hell, why is the PC industry still using Bios? why do we still have chipsets for the processor when they can be integrated into the processor for faster speed and reduced latency. Do see what i am trying to say?

The only companies making money in this game are the OS and general software makers. MS prices have not declined but gone up and the same could be said across the software industry. Thats where more than any other aspect of the computer eco-system you will find innovation and profits growth thats not based solely on market share/growth.

So now we have Apple with PC parts but have a truly customized case, Custom mother board and and a Unique Operating system to go with it. Apparently people like it enough and deem the prices they ask for fair. So why not continue with the formula that allows them to make record profits with less than 15% market-share with a market value 3x that of dell who has three-times the market share of Apple along with 34 Billion in the bank. And debt free to boot.
Anyone in their right mind would do the same thing in a heartbeat against Psystar and the customer be damed. Because the Shareholders come first of Apple. And I bet you would do the same too!

 

[mj4358]

REVISED
I dont think Apple will pursue Psystar any further. They just wanted to stop a trend of cloning Apple at their expense.
Think back when Apple was in sad shape and was on the brink of death. No company cared about Apple . Software makers didnt write for the OS, Peripheral makers didnt bother with them either. Now everyone is up in Arms because OSX is only to be used on Apple Brand computers. Allot of people believe its their right to do as they please when they buy software. I dont necessarily like all aspects of the limitation software makers place on users but I can understand why they do it.
See Dell,HP, Gateway, Acer set a precedent when they went into this price war with each other and raced to the bottom of the barrel in prices just so they can have "market share". Now they are in a catch 22 because in order for them to maintain last yrs profits they have to expand market share or at least maintain what they have.
Customers now dont place value on innovation when it comes to hardware but on who can sell me the cheapest hardware. True people do chase the processor for speed but thats just on part of a computer. Hell, why is the PC industry still using Bios? why do we still have chipsets for the processor when they can be integrated into the processor for faster speed and reduced latency. Do see what i am trying to say?

The only companies making money in this game are the OS and general software makers. MS prices have not declined but gone up and the same could be said across the software industry. Thats where more than any other aspect of the computer eco-system you will find innovation and profits growth thats not based solely on market share/growth.

So now we have Apple with PC parts but have a truly customized case, Custom mother board and and a Unique Operating system to go with it. Apparently people like it enough and deem the prices they ask for fair. So why not continue with the formula that allows them to make record profits with less than 15% market-share with a market value 3x that of dell who has three-times the market share of Apple , while Apple maintains 34 Billion in the bank. And debt free to boot!
Anyone in their right mind would do the same thing in a heartbeat against Psystar and the customer be damed. Because the Shareholders come first of Apple. And I bet you would do the same too!

 

[back_by_demand]

I dont necessarily like all aspects of the limitation software makers place on users but I can understand why they do it.

It isn't actually a limitation, really, is it? They ask you nicely please don't install on other hardware, but they haven't introduced measures to prevent it. If you boil down an EULA for any company it basically says:-

This product can do various things, we would prefer it if they were all legitimate. However if you use this product to surf the net for kiddie porn or how to make home-made explosives for Islamic terrorists we are not responsible for you abusing our otherwise fine product

And Apples profits and holdings are not down to it's Mac or OSX, it is down to the huge prevalence of iPods and iPhones combined with iTunes and App Store downloads.

 

[mj4358]

I agree that Apple makes most from sales of Ipod/Iphone/Itunes sales. But third Quarter 09 they sold 2.22 million macs and thats with a 3% decline. Point is that Thats allot of money! So letting Psystar get away with what they were doing would be foolosh especially since the whole idea behind the Ipod was to get consumers to notice Mac computers. The resulting success of Ipod sales was a bonus.

 

[mj4358]

"It isn't actually a limitation, really, is it? They ask you nicely please don't install on other hardware, but they haven't introduced measures to prevent it. If you boil down an EULA for any company it basically"
In a sense its not a limitaion on how the software could used in the privacy of your home. The limitaion comes in when you try to profit from your unauthorized use...and in some case Authorized.
They key to the EULA is that they forewarned you and reseve the right to sue at their lesure. Thats the catch!

 

[back_by_demand]

I personally think the whole iTunes business is illegal anyway. Part of the original deal with Apple Corps (The Beatles) was they were allowed to use the Apple name and logo on the agreement that the Beatles wouldn't enter the computer business and that Apple not enter the music business. Welchers and deal breakers the lot.

But I digress, with all the wrangling that has gone on, I think it would still be possible for Psystar to continue doing what it is doing by selling blank boxes, with a markup for the differance in cost of the Rebel EFI, giving away the Rebel EFI via a download link and a cash rebate to the value of a copy of OSX that you buy yourself from the Mac store. Psystar walks away with cash, customer gets cheaper working Mac and as long as Psystar have their own EULA on Rebel EFI that states any unauthorised installation of OSX done with this software is the responsibility of the End User, not Psystar, then I dont think there is much Apple could do to stop them.

 

[mj4358]

May be not ...But heres whats gonna happen.
Physical media will go away and you will have download only. Think im crazy; look at the way the entertainment industry is going. It starts with music. granted right now you have a "physical copy " when you save the song on your hard drive . But the future is streaming....no local storage of the media you bought. Yea you can watch/listen to it whenever you like via streaming but you wont have a copy with you to share. Manufactures who make the streaming devices will be licensed by the industry(music, movies) and forced to make it so that the media does not make a local copy and any company that is not licensed or enable users to make copies of the media or software in question will be sued. That way its easier to sue a company instead of individuals when they enable customers of their device to break user agreements.
Its even possible that EULA will go away all together and the device makers will be the ones who have the EULA.

As another example take a look a Google OS. True the basic program is already on the local storage but the applications reside in the cloud, Gmail,Document...etc will not be on your drive. And I bet in the future All OS and software companies will put their products on the cloud so that they will have ultimate control of how, where, when you use their software.
This in turn will greatly reduce stealing, file sharing of copy written material by limiting the where and how you use the software in question. And that how the industry will ultimately win.
Me you and everyone else ultimately loose the choice to use what was purchased the way we like.

 

[back_by_demand]

MJ4358, despite our ropey beginning, I think I could happily buy you a beer. You have a good arguement. I have been saying the world will go download only for years, that's why the Xbox didnt go Bluray.

 

[mj4358]

Wow my first friendship via debate, I gladly accept.

 

[back_by_demand]

http://www.geekologie.com/2007/08/20/Mac-G3-Beer-Server.jpg

Here you go, have a pint on me

 

[mj4358]

Thanks! LOL