QOTD: Do You Want True 3D Graphics for Games?

[AdamB5000]

[citation][nom]crimsondynamics[/nom]Do I want? Yes.But I don't want to have to wear anything special in order to experience "true" 3d. The technology should work just like watching regular TV.[/citation]

I agree. If we ever develop the technology to have 3D televisions without the extras (glasses, whatever), then people might begin paying attention. Until then most are happy with their HD widescreens.

Spend the money on developing games instead of 3D glasses technology.

 

[Dave K]

There's a lot of work that needs to be done before they're viable... but the time is coming.

The new lcd shutter tech is getting to the point where the glasses are light enough that they're not annoying anymore... but you still lose half your image intensity, which may be a problem in bright rooms.

Normal game rendering has all the information required to render 3d, but interfaces need to be standardized to eliminate the driver and compatibility problems (nvidia might be a big help there).

Compatible screens can't cost much more than any other screens... it's just not enough of a value add to justify a big price difference.

I've always thought the "Holy Grail" of display tech would be a 3d headset with eye tracking and targeted rendering. We know a lot about how the eye works now, and with precise eye tracking, systems could be designed that render only the information the eye needs. That means lots of detail where you're looking and a lot LESS detail (maybe only rendering edges) near the periphery of your vision. Right now GPU's spend a lot of time rendering detail that's wasted because you're not LOOKING at it.

That would allow game makers to render at quality levels that are an order of magnitude higher than they are today (I suspect it would get us to photorealistic)... without adding any more horsepower.

It could be done with eye tracking glasses and a normal monitor... but would be even better with a high resolution panoramic headset (full wrap around, maybe 2500x1200 res). That would seriously kick ass.

If they could just figure out the niggling details like accurate (and predictive) eye tracking, lightweight ultrahigh res. non-planar displays, and non-uniform (targeted) rendering.

Probably a decade away still... sadly.

 

[christop]

This would be cool if it truly worked.. I would try it if the price was right and the quality was there. Why not make a curved screen like a half moon would be cool. It could give the illusion of being in the game with view of the sides..

 

[blackened144]

How many of you guys complaining about this have actually tried it? i played Left4Dead for a few hours at my friends house and that game KICKS ASS in 3d. He is got a Q9550+GTX260 and it runs like butter. If they could get all games to play as well as this one title does, I would definitely throw down the money for a system to play 3d.

 

[baracubra]

I really rally want to get some of these...unfourtunately the monitors are only in size 22" and I have a 28" so it would be a major step-back, but once high Hz monitors or even big LCDs become standard, I'm deffinitely gettin me a pair of these. You can actually test out what it would look like if you google cross-eyed pictures of the game you want to play. I'f you can cross you eyes than you can see certain pictures that are made for cross-eyed view in 3D on a simple 2D screen!!!

 

[christop]

Man the price just killed it for me...

 

[Guest]

I currently use this setup and it is nothing short of amazing. It does take some education and getting used to, however. Without the correct depth and convergence settings, it's easy to understand how someone could get turned off of the technology. Left 4 Dead and WoW are great on this! Hopefully Nvidia sets up some store kiosks so people can actually experience stereoscopic 3D. Unless you've experienced it properly set up, you don't know what you're missing!

 

[theuerkorn]

It's going to be the "next frontier" and as technology advances we might see more of it as long as it's accessible for the average user. I know I would love it, but refuse to wear glasses etc..

I light of recent horror news, however, I am a bit concerned about too much realism in violent games ... potentially reducing the natural inhibitions by training the mind to think of it as normal. Games like that don't make killers but they train fragile minds potentially the wrong way.

Jump all over me if you like, but cartoon violence is easy to differentiate from daily life while hyper realism isn't much different from being exposed to the real thing. Ultimately it won't shock you anymore. Just look at how many people claim that the movie SAW aren't scary! Well they should be as they depict horror in a very detailed manner. Being "immune" to it is a rather worrisome trend.

I know, off topic a bit, that's what came to mind. Regardless, i would love 3D used in a reasonable way.

 

[theuerkorn]

It's going to be the "next frontier" and as technology advances we might see more of it as long as it's accessible for the average user. I know I would love it, but refuse to wear glasses etc..

I light of recent horror news, however, I am a bit concerned about too much realism in violent games ... potentially reducing the natural inhibitions by training the mind to think of it as normal. Games like that don't make killers but they train fragile minds potentially the wrong way.

Jump all over me if you like, but cartoon violence is easy to differentiate from daily life while hyper realism isn't much different from being exposed to the real thing. Ultimately it won't shock you anymore. Just look at how many people claim that the movie SAW aren't scary! Well they should be as they depict horror in a very detailed manner. Being "immune" to it is a rather worrisome trend.

I know, off topic a bit, that's what came to mind. Regardless, i would love 3D used in a reasonable way.

 

[kansur0]

I think the two biggest factors to make this technology useful would be:

1) LCD Projector or 30" monitor
2) Professional Quality Optics

Factor number one would provide a greater degree of immersion into the scene. Both LCD Projector and 30" screens would be far too expensive to provide the specs and refresh rate in order to sync with the signal. Maybe in the next year this technology would become available...but at what price?

Factor number two. Partnering with a professional quality optics supplier like Oakley would be beneficial in providing the necessary optics standards that should be mandatory for quality control. I have done laser tests with Oakley sunglasses compared to other more expensive brands and it was amazing to actually see how inaccurate other expensive brands are. If you have ever had a headache in the sun after a few hours and you aren't wearing quality eyewear it is probably your sunglasses. If you are going to sit in one spot making your eyes work all day you better have a good set of eyewear or you are going to screw with your eyes or get a really good headache in the process.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how good the quality is on the nVidia polarized shades they include in this package so I cannot say whether or not they would pass the divergent laser test. If they could not be as accurate as what Oakley optics could provide...I would not buy them.

 

[Anthelvar]

If you haven't tried it YOU JUST DON"T KNOW.
I have the Nvidia glass and use 2 8800 GTS 512 mb cards to run it on the 120 hz samsung monitor. I.d have to say that when the 3d is working well, it is truly AMAZING. MASS EFFECT in 3d is beyond belief! The biggest problem is that most games aren't made for 3d glass. This cause some incompatibilities that can be annoying, but in the games where it does work, well it is awesome.
I've been very skeptical of 3d (the whole paper glasses thing never worked for me) and my friend had the previous generation of 3d glass from Nvidia back in 2000!? Anyway, they didn't work very well, but these do.
The glass are fairly comfortable, and fit around my prescription glass also. Better to wear contacts though. As for eye strain, I didn't experience any with this setup, but did with the previous generation glasses. So that problem seems to be fixed.

Problems: I get a little ghosting, especially when there is a white light next to black. I thought this had to do with the response time of the monitor, but some forums lead me to believe this problem is less pronounced with the GT200 series of cards. I really don't know why though. It could be my framerates are dropping below 120. I haven't installed fraps to check it.
The glass only work with windows VISTA. Since I don't have vista, I installed windows 7 64 bit. This operating system seems to be unstable with many of my games, and was made worse with the installation of the 3d software. For some reason, toggling 3d on and off seems to make the system completely hang.

conclusion: If the next generation of games is optimized for true 3d, and 120hz monitors become normal(why wouldn't they, I mean I would have bought the monitor anyway for my FPS), then this technology will be the next BIG thing. It is more impressive than physics, but should be awesome with physics combined. Although I haven't played left for dead, I've heard this tech is awesome in that game also, but try Mass Effect, you won't be disappointed.

 

[RADIO_ACTIVE]

I tried the glasses out at Fry's Electronics and thought it was pretty kool. If it was more affordable I would support it.

 

[Anthelvar]

"I really rally want to get some of these...unfourtunately the monitors are only in size 22" and I have a 28" so it would be a major step-back, but once high Hz monitors or even big LCDs become standard, I'm deffinitely gettin me a pair of these."

Hey Gellert, I too had a 27" monitor before and was thinking the same thing. But once I tried it(3d) I chucked it to the side. The feeling of immersion is so much STRONGER in 3D that the 22" is good enough.
However, IZ3D has a 26" monitor coming out in summer or fall and it uses polarized glasses, so you don't need to worry about connecting a usb device and charging your glasses. However I understand there drivers aren't quite as developed as the Nvidia ones yet. But by the time the 26" arives, they should be there. Also, this tech works with both ATI and Nvidia cards and is cheaper as you only buy the monitor.

 

[rodney_ws]

YES! I want to look as geeky as humanly possible and this would go a long way towards meeting that goal.

 

[Anthelvar]

Hey Tom'S, why don't you guys do a side by side comparision of the 2 3D technologies. The one from IZ3D and the Nvidia 3D. See which is easier to set up and use. Check using different graphics cards for Ghosting effects etc. Which version offers the MAXIMUM immersion. Etc. IZ3D is definately Cheaper and may sway many people to try 3D out. The problem with marketing 3D is that you have to see it to believe it, and they can't effectively advertise what they can't show you. Plus, decades of bad 3D have put a stain on the industry.
Maybe James Cameron will start the ball rolling with Avatar.

 

[Desertfoxx41]

3D graphics are most likely the future in Computer gaming. The Wii has already upped the ante with its 1 to 1 motion capabilities.(Im talking about Wii Motion Plus, which is bad a$$) However, after reading on the 3D gaming market, you must have a monitor that outputs 120hz?! So let me get this straight, I would have to drop $500+ to get a new monitor, not to mention the 3D technology, and MOST likely a new GPU. Totally not even close to worth it. I have a better idea, why doesnt Nvidia and ATI find ways to make their newer GPUs cheaper instead of screwing around with 3D technology!? Listen up NVIDIA, this is a gimic, in todays economy Im more apt to drop $200 on a new 260 or 280 than 3D technology which would require more than what it is worth. This thing has failure written all over it.

 

[niz]

English 101:
The phrase is "couldn't care less" not "could care less".
Apart from being wrong, the latter just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Enterfrize]

There is an official study on this:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/press.cgi?press_id=28

NVIDIA and ATI would not jump into this if the demand wasn't there.

 

[Enterfrize]

There is already an official study on this:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/press.cgi?press_id=28

NVIDIA and ATI would not jump into this if the demand wasn't there.

Regards,
Enterfrize

 

[Anthelvar]

Thanks Enterfrize,

That was interesting.

 

[zambutu]

i would like something to this effect, if its affordable. I havn't tried anything 3D yet, so i can't really comment.

***BUT, a more significant issue for me is the lack of PC support for quality games, period. I've spent some big bucks building two gaming PC's, and other than a few games like Crysis and HL2, most games are just dumbed down console ports. Sub par 'PC' 3d graphics, awkward controls (try Dead Space?), annoying console style menus.

I won't be spending ***ANY*** money on hardware if we're only getting 1 or 2 true PC titles per year. I'll wait for the xbox 720 release instead perhaps.

 

[Dave K]

[citation][nom]zambutu[/nom]i would like something to this effect, if its affordable. I havn't tried anything 3D yet, so i can't really comment. ***BUT, a more significant issue for me is the lack of PC support for quality games, period. I've spent some big bucks building two gaming PC's, and other than a few games like Crysis and HL2, most games are just dumbed down console ports.
[/citation]

Valid concern... though usually the console ports play much better on the PC. Dead Space was a great game, but I agree it would have been MUCH better if they'd simply added a proper mouse interface. DS was IMO the exception though not the rule. In general, FPS games are far better on PC's (because they normally fix the crappy control problem)... and that alone makes a hot PC worth the price.

Then there's games like L4D, that game would be impossible on a console (unless they made it a WHOLE LOT easier)... but it's outstanding on a PC. Bioshock, Oblivion, all the MMO games... the list goes on. Since I finally updated my PC last fall I've not bought a single 360 game and only two PS3 games (and at least 6 PC games).

The COD series seems to be able to manage it (though I wasn't impressed with CODWAW... a little TOO console-y).

 

[jacobdrj]

If the screen would be about the size of my wall, and I could have a direct interface with the 3D enviroment, ala VR, Minority Report, Babylon 5, Star Trek, than sure. This would make CAD work great. I see little use for it in any other place, and certainly not worth much more than a minimal price premium.

 

[Anthelvar]

So How about it Tom's Hardware.

Hey Tom'S, why don't you guys do a side by side comparision of the 2 3D technologies. The one from IZ3D and the Nvidia 3D. See which is easier to set up and use. Check using different graphics cards for Ghosting effects etc. Which version offers the MAXIMUM immersion.

 

[Guest]

I had these years ago with one of my geforce cards and they were awesome! Im sure there much better today.