News Qualcomm says its Snapdragon Elite benchmarks show Intel didn't tell the whole story in its Lunar Lake marketing

[Admin]

Qualcomm claims its Snapdragon X Elite beats Intel's Lunar Lake chips in performance and efficiency, and that Intel was misleading in marketing.

Qualcomm says its Snapdragon Elite benchmarks show Intel didn't tell the whole story in its Lunar Lake marketing : Read more

 

[Notton]

I posit that they are both lying, or fudging the numbers.
Still doesn't change the fact X Elite laptops are $400 to 800 too expensive in general.

 

[CelicaGT]

Both Intel and AMD better be working on ARM offerings, this is coming whether we like it or not. The marketing engine is strong this time around, and Qualcomm isn't to be trifled with.

 

[setx]

"Qualcomm vs Intel" can be safely ignored, but "Intel vs AMD by Qualcomm" looks interesting.

Both Intel and AMD better be working on ARM offerings

lol

The marketing engine is strong this time around

ARM's marketing engine is as strong as usual, but that's pretty much all they have.

 

[EzzyB]

Intel: "We are the fastest!"

Qualcom: "Let's change the benchmarks then!"

Whatever....

 

[CelicaGT]

"Qualcomm vs Intel" can be safely ignored, but "Intel vs AMD by Qualcomm" looks interesting.


lol


ARM's marketing engine is as strong as usual, but that's pretty much all they have.

I'm not talking about ARM, but Qualcomm and Microsoft. Their effort in the past was lukewarm, but this latest one proves they have the ability to provide a compelling product at a competitive price. If the market is ready then it will take off. Compatibility seems to be an issue at times, but as the switch from Intel to ARM on the Apple side proved, it's only a matter of time before the bugs are ironed out, at least with the main productivity providers.

 

[thestryker]

Both Intel and AMD better be working on ARM offerings, this is coming whether we like it or not. The marketing engine is strong this time around, and Qualcomm isn't to be trifled with.

Microsoft did the heavy lifting for Qualcomm on marketing so we'll see if it pays off or if there was another reason behind them doing it. The Qualcomm random compatibility problems are somewhat similar to that of Intel Arc: you never know when they might happen or what the impact might be. That makes them an asterisk recommendation until this is resolved.

I certainly won't be ruling Arm out, but it'll take more than just Qualcomm to impact things on the client side.

 

[CelicaGT]

Microsoft did the heavy lifting for Qualcomm on marketing so we'll see if it pays off or if there was another reason behind them doing it. The Qualcomm random compatibility problems are somewhat similar to that of Intel Arc: you never know when they might happen or what the impact might be. That makes them an asterisk recommendation until this is resolved.

I certainly won't be ruling Arm out, but it'll take more than just Qualcomm to impact things on the client side.

Agreed, more or less. I feel the current offering is targeted directly at businesses, and will trickle down from there. The $32B corporation I work at is already looking at trialing the Latitude 7455 versions for the officey folks. We will see.

 

[thestryker]

Agreed, more or less. I feel the current offering is targeted directly at businesses, and will trickle down from there. The $32B corporation I work at is already looking at trialing the Latitude 7455 versions for the officey folks. We will see.

I'm not sure if they've resolved it yet, but they weren't compatible with all of the major VPNs. There's also not a compatible version of Google Drive yet (supposed to be coming this year) both of which are barriers to larger corporate adoption.

 

[CelicaGT]

I'm not sure if they've resolved it yet, but they weren't compatible with all of the major VPNs. There's also not a compatible version of Google Drive yet (supposed to be coming this year) both of which are barriers to larger corporate adoption.

We're all MS in house, any and all Google products are banned and are planned to be blocked on corporate networks in the near future. Of course, Copilot is now allowed via 365 on Win10 (with restrictions, and one has to do an online course to get approval for use.) *groan* . As for the VPN we use Cisco Anyconnect, and a quick search indicates a mixed bag for ARM64. I didn't dig much deeper than some MS articles and one Reddit. It should be interesting either way. Personally I'm vouching for whatever allows me to continue my hobby as a PC enthusiast, and I'm not convince an ARM future includes that.

 

[setx]

I'm not talking about ARM, but Qualcomm and Microsoft. Their effort in the past was lukewarm, but this latest one proves they have the ability to provide a compelling product at a competitive price. If the market is ready then it will take off.

The problem is market never asked for such a thing. No one (in market-significant quantities) asked for Windows on non-x86. No one wants Windows as OS (and especially Windows 11) – people have to use it for compatibility with their software. So the whole Windows-on-ARM makes sense only for MS and Qualcomm, not the customers.

Compatibility seems to be an issue at times, but as the switch from Intel to ARM on the Apple side proved, it's only a matter of time before the bugs are ironed out

Apple is a very different case. Apple completely controls the software ecosystem so the actual switch was from "old-Apple" to "new-Apple". They could've switched to anything else than ARM and nothing would change.

 

[CelicaGT]

The problem is market never asked for such a thing. No one (in market-significant quantities) asked for Windows on non-x86. No one wants Windows as OS (and especially Windows 11) – people have to use it for compatibility with their software. So the whole Windows-on-ARM makes sense only for MS and Qualcomm, not the customers.


Apple is a very different case. Apple completely controls the software ecosystem so the actual switch was from "old-Apple" to "new-Apple". They could've switched to anything else than ARM and nothing would change.

Corporations sell products and services of value, they are free to innovate and offer a new product and/or service at their risk, to create a new segment or augment an existing one. An example might be Windows on ARM with all the benefits that may or may not provide as an incentive for consumer or corporate buy in. I'm vaguely interested as a consumer, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread my employer is looking into these so there is some interest. As for the Apple example I was not clear and apologize. I was referring to third party software by third party providers. In this example Apple provided Rosetta 2 as a translation layer until native support was added, Microsoft is doing the same with Prism, so they are comparable as far as this potential Windows on ARM transition is concerned.

(edit: spelling is hard)

 

[setx]

An example might be Windows on ARM with all the benefits

And what are those benefits? For consumer.
Please don't say battery life or price because they aren't (at least now).

 

[ChrisGX]

>>Notably, Qualcomm isn't using the top configuration of the Intel Core Ultra Series 2 platform, the Core Ultra 9 288V [in its benchmark comparisons]<<

And, why would Qualcomm do that? Actually, wouldn't it be crazy to do that? Qualcomm is arguably putting itself at a big disadvantage to compare its mobile chip with a high spec Lunar Lake laptop chip. Must Qualcomm's low power mobile chip beat Intel's fastest Lunar Lake laptop chip on every performance and efficiency measure before it is considered worthy of notice?

Now, as to the insinuations of deviousness and lying by Qualcomm my recollection is that their anticipatory benchmark numbers for the first iteration of Oryon were confirmed rather than refuted. Application to application there were a lot of benchmark results that disappointed reviewers who seemed to either have unrealistic expectations of Oryon or who simply wanted to score points against this new contender. (Overblown claims of benchmark cherry picking by the same Oryon detractors followed in turn.)

There was some substance behind the mostly irrational anti-Oryon ferment. First, Oryon did not beat high performance x86 hardware while carrying the emulation burden required to run x86 executables on Oryon ARM silicon. That is hardly surprising. Second, Oryon seemed somewhat neutered by Windows itself, which was surprising. There seems to be plenty of optimisation work that still to be done. Third, the Adreno GPU did not offer the slick graphics of high performance x86 hardware. Much of this will improve with the second iteration of the X Elite. In the meantime, it will be interesting to see how the A18 and the 8 Elite compare.

 

[dimar]

I know that with Intel and AMD you can run Windows for 10 years without issues. For example Intel computers with 4th gen CPUs can run Windows 10 and even 11 just fine. If Qualcomm can achieve this kind of longevity levels, then I'll pay attention. Otherwise it's just eWaste I'd never support, purchase or recommend.

 

[ChrisGX]

I know that with Intel and AMD you can run Windows for 10 years without issues. For example Intel computers with 4th gen CPUs can run Windows 10 and even 11 just fine. If Qualcomm can achieve this kind of longevity levels, then I'll pay attention. Otherwise it's just eWaste I'd never support, purchase or recommend.

I don't share that disposition. What matters to me is speed and energy efficiency and a suitable array of software that meets my needs and runs well. That some old software applications only run in emulation or don't run at all doesn't concern me in the slightest. So, while ever there are large numbers of people like me, people like you with your particular disposition will not represent a significant obstacle to the success of the Oryon/ARM architecture (on smartphones or laptops).

Also, remember, we are talking about the 8 Elite chip here. The only choice is between the Android apps that it (or other licensed ARM hardware) runs and the iOS apps that Apple's custom ARM silicon runs. Worrying about x86 backward compatibility never arises for smartphone owners.

 

[Kondamin]

Holding off a generation or two before wasting any money on windows on arm (but this time it’s good generation)

 

[NinoPino]

And what are those benefits? For consumer.
Please don't say battery life or price because they aren't (at least now).

Battery life and performance on battery already are a actual and concrete advantage.
And if Microsoft will deign to optimise Windows as due...

 

[edzieba]

For one, he said, Intel didn't include its fastest chip, the Snapdragon X Elite X1E-84100.

And then proceeds to not test Intel's fastest chip, and instead provides a mix of benchmarks of a different chip and some numbers grabbed from a youtube video.

 

[NinoPino]

And then proceeds to not test Intel's fastest chip, and instead provides a mix of benchmarks of a different chip and some numbers grabbed from a youtube video.

Intel is free to reply.

 

[ChrisGX]

I posit that they are both lying, or fudging the numbers.
Still doesn't change the fact X Elite laptops are $400 to 800 too expensive in general.

I posit that anyone swallowing Intel's deliberate benchmark marketing deceptions will not be happy at the end of the day. Qualcomm certainly is settling a score here but with Intel always courting damage to its reputation by issuing loaded and dodgy benchmark numbers I'm sure that Qualcomm feels justified in throwing everything back in Intel's face. And, everything that Qualcomm has claimed here can readily be checked by a competent reviewer/tester.

The bigger picture, though, is that all of these things in dispute are ancient history now. The really significant claim at this juncture is that (at room temperature) a Qualcomm mobile chip, equipped with 2nd generation Oryon cores, (at least for brief bursts) can outperform a high spec laptop chip from Intel. Intel had better hope that isn't true, although it probably will be.

 

[TheHerald]

Battery life and performance on battery already are a actual and concrete advantage.
And if Microsoft will deign to optimise Windows as due...

No they are not? Lunar Lake leads almost every chart I've seen on baterry life.

 

[TheHerald]

I posit that anyone swallowing Intel's deliberate benchmark marketing deceptions will not be happy at the end of the day. Qualcomm certainly is settling a score here but with Intel always courting damage to its reputation by issuing loaded and dodgy benchmark numbers I'm sure that Qualcomm feels justified in throwing everything back in Intel's face. And, everything that Qualcomm has claimed here can readily be checked by a competent reviewer/tester.

The bigger picture, though, is that all of these things in dispute are ancient history now. The really significant claim at this juncture is that (at room temperature) a Qualcomm mobile chip, equipped with 2nd generation Oryon cores, (at least for brief bursts) can outperform a high spec laptop chip from Intel. Intel had better hope that isn't true, although it probably will be.

Lunar Lake is not a higher spec chip. It's literally meant for everyday usage and baterry life. Arrow lake will be the high spec chip and it will be a lot faster than the elite.

 

[usertests]

Both Intel and AMD better be working on ARM offerings, this is coming whether we like it or not. The marketing engine is strong this time around, and Qualcomm isn't to be trifled with.

ARM's alleged advantages over x86 have always been overhyped, and Qualcomm has consistently failed in its efforts to infiltrate Windows laptop PCs. If anything, I would look forward to the rumored MediaTek + Nvidia collaboration to change the status quo, since Nvidia means business and MediaTek has been doing well for itself at Qualcomm's expense. They can benefit from all the ground work Microsoft has done to prep for Qualcomm's latest flop.

 

[ChrisGX]

No they are not? Lunar Lake leads almost every chart I've seen on baterry life.

Battery life, you should be aware, has a complex relationship to energy efficiency. Things can easily be fudged. One way to give a glowing impression about energy efficiency is to use a large battery but a long battery life in that context obviously won't necessarily indicate a frugal use of power. Actually, that isn't the trick being used by thin and light laptop manufacturers equipping their laptops with Core Ultra chips. The trick they use is to radically reduce performance when the laptop isn't connected to the power cable. So, you do get long battery life with Lunar Lake but you don't get high performance during battery discharge. Nice trick and a very effective deception that makes a computer that isn't especially energy efficient seem as if it is.