Question about the zork games

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at wrote:
> I just acquired the 3 Activision releases, and the timeline packaged
> with ZGI puts the Zork Nemesis story contemporary with the original Zork
> trio (the Nemesis quest is solved in 949 GUE, just one year after the
> Zork I quest). I don't know the RTZ plot well enough to see any clear
> indicators on this timeline.

As far as it goes, RTZ takes place long after all the others.

--
John W. Kennedy
"You can, if you wish, class all science-fiction together; but it is
about as perceptive as classing the works of Ballantyne, Conrad and W.
W. Jacobs together as the 'sea-story' and then criticizing _that_."
-- C. S. Lewis. "An Experiment in Criticism"

 

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"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:654Gc.21477$kz.4092471@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> at wrote:
> > I just acquired the 3 Activision releases, and the timeline packaged
> > with ZGI puts the Zork Nemesis story contemporary with the original Zork
> > trio (the Nemesis quest is solved in 949 GUE, just one year after the
> > Zork I quest). I don't know the RTZ plot well enough to see any clear
> > indicators on this timeline.
>
> As far as it goes, RTZ takes place long after all the others.

About 580 years after Grand Inquisitor, to be exact - according to the
timeline poster boxed with GI, GI takes place in 1067 GUE. If you read the
sweepstakes letter at the beginning of the RTZ manual, it's dated 1647 GUE.
I think the Great Diffusion, which is the historic event that makes the
events in RTZ possible, is 1247, dunno if any of the games cover this period
though. The year nn47 seems to be a popular one among designers of the Zork
games - I wonder why.

There's a reference to RTZ in the "time chair" room in Nemesis, actually -
one of the paintings is a picture of the first scene in RTZ, and its caption
is "The Futurelithic Age". I think maybe they planned to integrate RTZ into
Nemesis so you could access it by spinning the chair enough, a bit like what
CD versions of DOTT did with Maniac Mansion, but never got round to it.

Looking back at this post, I have rapidly come to the conclusion that I have
way too much free time at the moment!

Tom

 

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at wrote:

> ZGI "feels"
> like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do
> not. Nemesis has plenty of atmosphere, but it's not the kind of
> atmosphere Infocom ever created.

I agree. I think Nemesis is a wonderfully creepy game, but it's
basically an almost Myst-like puzzlefest without the classic Zork
humour. Many of the locations feel generic (for example, there is a
fly-by of the great dam, but it fails to look quite as special as it
ought to), although I remember the polar madhouse or whatever that place
is where you have to do unspeakable things to dead bodies as the
scariest thing on my computer screen since The Lurking Horror.

ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined the
GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat. I played it
through twice, once with a friend. We both have fond memories of the
long nights laughing and wondering at what was going on on the screen.

"Sure, try the whole inventory - Something's gotta work!"

"Rezrov!"

"Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic. Shun everything, and then
shun shunning."

"I am the boss of you. I am the boss of you!"

Classic.

Edo
--
"Violence is the repartee of the illiterate."
-- Alan Brien

 

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In rec.games.int-fiction, Edo <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
> ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined the
> GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat.

It felt to me like an imitation.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.

 

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Andrew Plotkin wrote:

> In rec.games.int-fiction, Edo <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> >
> > ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined
> > the GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat.
>
> It felt to me like an imitation.

Interesting point. There was definitely something 'meta' going on in
that game, what with the newsreel footage at the beginning and all, but
I am rather partial to that sort of thing myself. I love pastiche and
'breaking through the fourth wall' as drama people like to put it, and
that aspect of ZGI is one I particularly liked.(*)

You could arGUE (sorry - stoned) that imitation is the highest form of
flattery and I like to think of ZGI as an hommage, put together with
something in the way of taste and care.

But you're certainly entitled to your own opinions, of course. 😉

Edo

(*) I also adore the multilayered meta/fourth-wall jokes in 'Monkey
Island 2'.
--
"Violence is the repartee of the illiterate."
-- Alan Brien

 

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In article <JOGdnVhko9G00nTdRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
Paul Drallos <pdrallos@tir.com> wrote:
>I don't understand your hostility toward RTZ.

Want some rye?

'Course you do!

>What's not to love?

Want some rye?

'Course you do!

Adam

 

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Adam Thornton wrote:
> In article <JOGdnVhko9G00nTdRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> Paul Drallos <pdrallos@tir.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't understand your hostility toward RTZ.
>
>
> Want some rye?
>
> 'Course you do!
>
>
>>What's not to love?
>
>
> Want some rye?
>
> 'Course you do!
>
> Adam

Here's to us...

Who's like us?

 

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Paul Drallos wrote:

> Adam Thornton wrote:
>
>> In article <JOGdnVhko9G00nTdRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
>> Paul Drallos <pdrallos@tir.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't understand your hostility toward RTZ.
>>
>>
>>
>> Want some rye?
>>
>> 'Course you do!
>>
>>
>>> What's not to love?
>>
>>
>>
>> Want some rye?
>>
>> 'Course you do!
>>
>> Adam
>
>
> Here's to us...
>
> Who's like us?
>

I am enjoying the game

It has a "cheaper" feel to it than the text games did, but that has more
to do with that state of the technology you mentioned than anything
else, I think.

Asa

 

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Paul Drallos <pdrallos@tir.com> wrote in news:A8edneU02JEjZ3TdRVn-
jA@comcast.com:

> Adam Thornton wrote:
>> Want some rye?
>> 'Course you do!
> Here's to us...
> Who's like us?

Damn few... and they're all dead!

I can't feel hostile towards RTZ, even with its faults. All these years
later, we still quote it around the house; it's become part of our common
slang. Plus, it drew two of my friends into adventure gaming where no other
game had engaged their interest before.

 

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Tom McEwan wrote:
> "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>As far as it goes, RTZ takes place long after all the others.
>
>
> About 580 years after Grand Inquisitor, to be exact - according to the
> timeline poster boxed with GI, GI takes place in 1067 GUE. If you read the
> sweepstakes letter at the beginning of the RTZ manual, it's dated 1647 GUE.
> I think the Great Diffusion, which is the historic event that makes the
> events in RTZ possible, is 1247, dunno if any of the games cover this period
> though. The year nn47 seems to be a popular one among designers of the Zork
> games - I wonder why.
>
> There's a reference to RTZ in the "time chair" room in Nemesis, actually -
> one of the paintings is a picture of the first scene in RTZ, and its caption
> is "The Futurelithic Age". I think maybe they planned to integrate RTZ into
> Nemesis so you could access it by spinning the chair enough, a bit like what
> CD versions of DOTT did with Maniac Mansion, but never got round to it.
>
> Looking back at this post, I have rapidly come to the conclusion that I have
> way too much free time at the moment!

At least you realized it at top efficiency!

Your comments were very educational

Asa

 

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>>>Want some rye?
>>>'Course you do!
>>
>>Here's to us...
>>Who's like us?
>
>
> Damn few... and they're all dead!
>
> I can't feel hostile towards RTZ, even with its faults. All these years
> later, we still quote it around the house; it's become part of our common
> slang. Plus, it drew two of my friends into adventure gaming where no other
> game had engaged their interest before.

We still use "Want some rye?" around the office... always gets a
chuckle. Some of the folks who use it don't even know who/what they're
quoting -- they just assume it's a techie greeting.

-- Mike

 

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at <"asa(at)lovetour.info"@x.x> wrote in
news:10eh7iqige9ts7c@corp.supernews.com:

> 6+ weeks later ....

Well then, it's fair for me to bring it back a couple of weeks later
again, then, right?

> I literally just tried these games this week, and so far ZGI "feels"
> like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do
> not.
> Nemesis has plenty of atmosphere, but it's not the kind of
> atmosphere
> Infocom ever created.

I tend to disagree wrt Nemesis. It doesn't have the same feel as most
of the games, and the attempts to wedge it into the continuity are very
forced, but it very much captured the atmosphere I got from playing Zork
I all those... wince.... decades ago. But then, I felt like the later
games betrayed the tone of the original to a degree.

I always pictured Zork I as huge, empty, still and beautiful. An
abandoned world full of decaying grandeur, just like most of the
locations in Nemesis. A mixture of fantasy and SF/contemporary
elements, with the fantasy being the main setting, but certain areas
letting another be dominant, like Nemesis. A mostly still and sombre
game, with a good deal of humor cut in, like Nemesis. (There's very
little humor in the main area, but a good amount in many of the
sub-worlds.)

Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
every passing game.) Maybe I'm just so attached to this view that I
still see it even when I play Zork I today. Maybe it's more accurate to
say that the atmosphere and tone of Nemesis is what I always wanted Zork
to be.

Whatever the case, it's very Zorkish to me.



As for RTZ, I think it fits the Zork series well, in a certain insulting
way. With the last few infocom games, each seemed to get a little
cheesier, and a little less enjoyable. Zork Zero balanced on the knife
edge, for me, of how cheesy the games could get without being
unenjoyable. I think the problems with RTZ are simply the problems that
had been growing with the series anyway, taken to the next step and
combined with primitive graphic problems (although the primitive
graphics problem had been growing in the last couple of Infocom games,
so maybe that is in line too.)


Anyway, my $0.02

Dave Doty

 

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David Doty wrote:
> Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
> seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
> yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
> every passing game.)

Did you read the accompanying material before the game? At all? Did you
have anybody telling you what the game was like before you played it?

My impression of the original Zork (or trilogy) is not far off yours, and
I didn't read the hardcopy until after playing it. I wonder if that
colours the player's perception of the game text. I also found Nemesis
to be the funniest of all the Zork games I've played (missing Beyond and
Zero), so maybe it's just a matter of what strikes your funny bone.

Like Murray's comments about Discworld, I saw both gritty and silly,
heavy and light aspects in the original Zork, so all of the graphical
Zorks felt Zorkish enough to me.
--
David Tanguay http://www.sentex.ca/~datanguayh/
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada [43.24N 80.29W]

 

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David Adrien Tanguay <datanguayh@sentex.cookie.can> wrote in
news:40f4c21d@news.sentex.net:

> Did you read the accompanying material before the game? At all? Did you
> have anybody telling you what the game was like before you played it?

Nope. Somebody just plunked me down in front of a screen, and away I went.
You're right, the documentation might have changed how I viewed the game.
Wasn't it actually created later? Maybe Infocom's own view of the Zork
games had changed between writing it (or adapting it from the mainframe
version) and writing the documentation.

Dave Doty

 

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David Doty <davedoty@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9525DB333EC92dsdoty@38.119.71.33:

> [snip]
> Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
> seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
> yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
> every passing game.) Maybe I'm just so attached to this view that I
> still see it even when I play Zork I today. Maybe it's more accurate to
> say that the atmosphere and tone of Nemesis is what I always wanted Zork
> to be.

Your post is nicely highlights the differences in people's opinions about a
game. We all take out of a game those things that we want, and gloss over,
ignore, or don't even see a facet that others consider to be fundamental.
Makes me glad I am not a game designer 🙂

Discworld Noir is another game that evokes this type of alternate view of
the underlying world. Is Pratchett's discworld a dark and gloomy place?
Or is it funny and lighthearted. I find it to be both, so I enjoyed all of
the Discworld games, and I enjoyed the two viewpoints.

--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_peterson@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/