QUESTION NOBODY KNOWS The ANSWER TO

[emailadress2018]

I would like to ask the experts here something regarding pcie speeds.
So, for reasons I explained in another thread (and they are irrelevant to my question now, so please don't just tell me not to do it) I want to oc a non k intel via bclk speed (just to max 105 from 100mhz) but any speed above 101.4 will set the pcie slot from 3.0 to 2.0 (at least as reported by gpu-z even when stress testing with the built-in stress test.. is ist possible that gpu-z is wrong???). After lots of reading and seeing YouTube tests I know my gtx 1070 is at the border of saturating the pcie 2.0 x16 bandwidth( some games won't bottleneck at all, but some with up to 10 fps loss which would negate the gains I will get from oc-ing my 4770 ).
The strange thing is, I made a test with the hardest gpu benchmark I know of: the Superposition at ultra with PCIE 3.0 and then 2.0, each with stock and then with +79 mhz on core and memory.
(Note, I got the pcie 2.0 by getting just minimally above the 101.4 bclk threshold to 101.6, so that the minimaly higher cpu frequency wont have any influence on the scores.. But cpu usage during this benchmark is max 10% anyway so that's not important).
So the worst result was the pcie 3.0 with no gpu oc
Next was the pcie 2.0 with no gpu oc (but with oc pcie thanks to the blck)
Second to best was pcie 3.0 with gpu oc and the highest score was the 2.0 with gpu oc.
The fact that while in pcie 2.0 oc gpu test got the highest score makes me think that the bios may want to limit the pcie to 2.0 but because of the bus overclock the data is beeing transfered more rapidly and because the HARDWARE itself can manage faster data transfers (pcie 3.0) there is no real hardware limitation happening. Is this true?

Also, can running this 5Mhz blck oc damage the pcie slot or the graphics card in the long run? I didn't see any negative effects while testing for 10 minutes but is 24/7 operation safe?
Also what is regarded as a "very high" blck oc? There are some voltage calibration settings in my ROG bios for when using "very high blck" which can improve oc/performance. Should I enable them or is my 105 blck not "very high"?

 

[Rdslw]

Anything much over 110Mhz or so would completely destroy the USB and PCIe bus (or devices on them), not to mention corrupting all data on the SATA bus. Complete lunacy for 300Mhz, lol.

And no, it certainly wouldn't create any less heat. Heat output really has nothing to do with what method you use to OC, just the voltage that you have to use.

From the people that I've seen that have done both at the same time, or even just a pure BCLK OC, their OC's are usually not very stable, and actually create slightly MORE heat than just using the multiplier (even though it shouldn't).

103-107 is still around safe values, but I would not push anywhere near 110 Mhz. you have no idea how MOBO will react and how other components will work at 110Mhz or higher.
about performance, you might gain where you don't need bandwidth, as you have less overhead on protocol that saturates it's frames.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BJMe7DT59P0/USIblA2sp_I/AAAAAAAABA4/YHLZ82QMD6g/s1600/shoutcast-metadata.jpg
data is sent in packs simiar as this one, and gains are probably from head being limited in size.
I would not bother with such OC, gains are very small and possible errors problem list is incredible.
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/pci-express-3-0-vs-2-0-gaming-performance-gain/4/

 

[RobCrezz]

This is why we do multiplyer overclocking, as putting the bclk higher puts other components out of spec like pci-e/sata etc.

I would strongly advise against bclk overclocking, unless you have a motherboard which has a seperate clock generator.

 

[emailadress2018]

Thanks for the reply!
I'm not planing to go beyond my current 105mhz.. I'm now at 4.1ghz from the stock 3.4ghz and it's more than enough (granted, even now bf1 Multiplayer still gets the cpu at 100%- Afterburner shows a straight line):
I just wanted to know if running at this 105mhz is slowly damaging my gtx 1070 or its just that at higher bclks (over 110) it would instantly and permanently destroy components(like the graphics card).
My delidded i7 4770 runs at 4.1ghz at full 100% load with 1.181v at max 57 Degrees (only 40-50° during all other lighter games like: bf3, bf4, gta 5 and overwatch) so i'm not worried about temps or voltage.

Anything much over 110Mhz or so would completely destroy the USB and PCIe bus (or devices on them), not to mention corrupting all data on the SATA bus. Complete lunacy for 300Mhz, lol.

And no, it certainly wouldn't create any less heat. Heat output really has nothing to do with what method you use to OC, just the voltage that you have to use.

From the people that I've seen that have done both at the same time, or even just a pure BCLK OC, their OC's are usually not very stable, and actually create slightly MORE heat than just using the multiplier (even though it shouldn't).

103-107 is still around safe values, but I would not push anywhere near 110 Mhz. you have no idea how MOBO will react and how other components will work at 110Mhz or higher.
about performance, you might gain where you don't need bandwidth, as you have less overhead on protocol that saturates it's frames.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BJMe7DT59P0/USIblA2sp_I/AAAAAAAABA4/YHLZ82QMD6g/s1600/shoutcast-metadata.jpg
data is sent in packs simiar as this one, and gains are probably from head being limited in size.
I would not bother with such OC, gains are very small and possible errors problem list is incredible.
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/pci-express-3-0-vs-2-0-gaming-performance-gain/4/

 

[emailadress2018]

After buying an unlocked K i7 of the newest generation I would also advice all people that are asking me to only use Multiplier .
I can only imagine how it feels to buy the more expensive version of the same chip and then other people that bought the much more affordable non k one to even try to reach same frequency and performance as me.. that would drive me crazy..
Now in all seriousness, of course I want to use the multiplier, but because of Intels greed I cant. So I have to resort to these kind of hacks so that i don't lag in bf1. This website\forum is not sponsored by intel (as far as i know) so we should try to find solutions and compromises instead of blindly listening to what the big corporations are saying..

This is why we do multiplyer overclocking, as putting the bclk higher puts other components out of spec like pci-e/sata etc.

I would strongly advise against bclk overclocking, unless you have a motherboard which has a seperate clock generator.

 

[RobCrezz]

After buying an unlocked K i7 of the newest generation I would also advice all people that are asking me to only use Multiplier .
I can only imagine how it feels to buy the more expensive version of the same chip and then other people that bought the much more affordable non k one to even try to reach same frequency and performance as me.. that would drive me crazy..
Now in all seriousness, of course I want to use the multiplier, but because of Intels greed I cant. So I have to resort to these kind of hacks so that i don't lag in bf1. This website\forum is not sponsored by intel (as far as i know) so we should try to find solutions and compromises instead of blindly listening to what the big corporations are saying..

This is why we do multiplyer overclocking, as putting the bclk higher puts other components out of spec like pci-e/sata etc.

I would strongly advise against bclk overclocking, unless you have a motherboard which has a seperate clock generator.

Im not really sure what your getting at? I was telling you why BCLK overclocking doesn't work very well.

We aren't blindly listening to Intel, this is stuff us and other people have tested and tried. on the 6th gen there were some motherboards released which could BLCK overclock safely as they had separate clock generator for the cpu, and could still keep the other parts in spec.

Its not rocket science or "QUESTION NOBODY KNOWS The ANSWER TO", its quite clearly documented on the internet if you look...

If you wanted high overclocks you should have purchased the K edition, they are normally only 10% more than the non k.

 

[emailadress2018]

After buying an unlocked K i7 of the newest generation I would also advice all people that are asking me to only use Multiplier .
I can only imagine how it feels to buy the more expensive version of the same chip and then other people that bought the much more affordable non k one to even try to reach same frequency and performance as me.. that would drive me crazy..
Now in all seriousness, of course I want to use the multiplier, but because of Intels greed I cant. So I have to resort to these kind of hacks so that i don't lag in bf1. This website\forum is not sponsored by intel (as far as i know) so we should try to find solutions and compromises instead of blindly listening to what the big corporations are saying..

This is why we do multiplyer overclocking, as putting the bclk higher puts other components out of spec like pci-e/sata etc.

I would strongly advise against bclk overclocking, unless you have a motherboard which has a seperate clock generator.

Im not really sure what your getting at? I was telling you why BCLK overclocking doesn't work very well.

We aren't blindly listening to Intel, this is stuff us and other people have tested and tried. on the 6th gen there were some motherboards released which could BLCK overclock safely as they had separate clock generator for the cpu, and could still keep the other parts in spec.

Its not rocket science or "QUESTION NOBODY KNOWS The ANSWER TO", its quite clearly documented on the internet if you look...

If you wanted high overclocks you should have purchased the K edition, they are normally only 10% more than the non k.

First of all I still owe you a ''Thank you'' because you took the time to answer, even though I didn't like that answer.
Now to the part I didn't like:
well, the main question of the thread wasn't if i should bclk oc or not (i said i'll do it anyway) but rather:
why do i get better graphic benchmark results with pcie 2.0 x16 with 105mhz blck instead of pcie 3.0. and whether 105 is a high oc or not (the ROG bios has an option for '' high bclk'' to improve oc capability).
The fact that the first thing you said was that it is better to use multiplier although you knew very well I have a non k chip made me look at what you have (a 8700K that i can imagine was not cheap,bought with the clear intention to be better than 8700 non k):
Where i live, my USED 4770 that i bought 2 months ago, was 150€ and that was a VERY good deal. A 4770k or 4790k would cost ca. 250€ or more. A new one would be over 300€ . I checked, and for that price i could get a 8th gen i7..but then i would have to buy new ram too..which i dont want to do cus then my new cpu would cost me more than 400€ (470$).
I chose this thread title because i actually wrote and published the text 2 weeks ago but got no answer so i copy-pasted the text in a new thread with this name so it would be on top of the new threads list again and i know from youtube that ''AMAZING , YOU WONT BELIEVE THIS!, THE MOST IMPOSSIBLE TRICK\QUESTION ETC'' -kind of titles attract a lot of views..and it worked, i got the first answer in minutes..

P.S i dont think 4.095 GHz is a ''high overclock''.. and you did not manage to make me regret my cpu purchase decision even if i know i wont get to your 4.9ghz.
It may seem that i got a bit personal and angry, but from my perspective your answers were definitely not from an objective POV either, but rather very biased. I am not sure if you do this consciously or unconsciously but it sounded a bit like (and yes I am exaggerating ,but just so that you can see it clearly'' : ''hey look at me , i have the latest cpu and its also a K one, so it's (and then through association: I AM better than the people without a K cpu), this also means I am richer than the other ones without k''.

Rdslw gave a very objective answer in which he (just like you) also did advise not to use bclk oc , but the way he said it and the fact that he admitted that a compromise solution is possible (e.g not to go to 110mhz) made me pick him as the solution.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters is: does it work without a problem? if yes, then all is fine. I know it was not ''intended'' to be used that way.. but unfortunately the world isn't perfect, it needs tweaking and compromises..if it were perfect, I wouldnt be poor and I could buy an i9..a K one.

 

[RobCrezz]

Sorry you are taking it that way, but its not the case. I have been overclocking since the days of 486, using various methods. In the various generations overclocking by the FSB or base clock was the best way, thats just not the case any more. There was no bragging about having the 8700k - I bought it because I like to overclock, and currently having a cpu with an unlocked multiplyer is the best way. Previous to this I had the 2500k and 2600k.

As you have found, you can get additional performance with BCLK overclocking, my warning is that you may run into problems with other components in the system.

I couldn't care less about being picked as the solution, I just want to share knowledge.