Question Rad to Outlet Pump A240G AIR/Gap in Tube - Watercooling issue help!

[jamieinthejar]

Hi Guys,

Firstly, thanks in advance for any advice/troubleshooting ideas you can offer.

Recently changed over to a new MB, RAM, CPU etc. flushed the system a few times with distilled water and then put in my new Mayhem Pastel White liquid.

The problem is as follows:

As you can see from the photos, pretty much after the CPU block, the flow stops circulating, meaning it's running really inefficiently and recycling the same liquid rather than running through the entire system/rad.

https://imgur.com/a/PFbFgl0

View: https://imgur.com/a/PFbFgl0

https://imgur.com/a/35SIfJF

View: https://imgur.com/a/35SIfJF


After the CPU block there is liquid - although it looks like it isn't moving at all, and after the RAD there's no liquid. I knew there may be a little trapped air, but this seems more like perhaps the pump isn't strong enough or, there's a block/clogging in the CPU block/RAD.

It's also worth noting that there's a tiny little buzzing sound coming from the pump at the moment, almost like a slight vibration.

I've taken the loop pretty much mostly apart and re-assembled, tried tilting, running with the cap off/open etc. but no joy, any suggestions?

Cheers

 

[AllanGH]

This looks like it's down to a blocked radiator, or a bunk pump head.

 

[jamieinthejar]

I'm always very careful to make sure it never drops low, so i'll either do it in bursts, or be pouring as it's going round the system, never letting air get sucked in.

I guess I try the rad and cpu alone next!

 

[rubix_1011]

I wouldn't necessarily do that - you need to make sure you can blow air through the radiator, eliminate it as a blockage, Step 1.

Step 2. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure the CPU block isn't the cause of blockage? Did you test it? Blow air through it? If coolant rushes to it, but trickles OUT...this is an indicator.

This loop is pretty simple and non-restrictive, so the fact you're having so many problems indicates a problem - start with where the coolant stops flowing and work your way around.

You are almost to the point of pulling all the components and testing them individually. This is where experience pays off and learning will help you for the future.

 

[jamieinthejar]

I can definitely blow air through the radiator, if I disconnect the system from the pump and blow air through the tubes, albeit a little tough, air goes through and pushes remaining liquid out.

I only saw the fittings and the inner rings, without taking the CPU block completely apart I wouldn't be able to say for certain, but it could well be.

I've had it running open-cap for the past 3-4 hours and the fluid has gone down slightly (couple of mm), although I can't really tell if the tube has filled up much.

 

[jamieinthejar]

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=eUg3X2REQmdWME9nYm8wNkR4ZGh1TmZZN0h2MWxR

That's a video of it powering on/off a couple of days ago, it's a tiny different now, but similar principle.

 

[Karadjgne]

Have you tried pumping through with the inlet side to the resevoir disconnected and sitting in a bowl? There should be enough back pressure that air bubbles should be constantly rising into the res.

 

[jamieinthejar]

That's quite a good point, I haven't actually yet taken the inlet out first, I could probably do that and then run the pump for a couple of seconds to see if it pushes through or not.

If memory serves from yesterday, when I did something similar I got a little bit of dribble from the tube, but then nothing further, but that was without the pump running, I'll give it a try!

 

[Karadjgne]

Just seems rather suspicious that according to the video, the coolant right before the res will push into the pump, but as soon as that air hits it, it comes to a screaching halt. Almost as if there's something backwards in the pump head itself and is barely allowing coolant back into the pump chamber, and is cavitating once air hits it. That initial turn on should have lowered the res coolant, it's a small res after all, but that didn't happen

 

[rubix_1011]

Could also pull the rad off the mounts and tip it so that you can control which end is up, while leaving the tubing in place. This might help you dislodge air from the radiator. Just a thought.

 

[jamieinthejar]

@Karadjgne Yeah, I'm as baffled as you unfortunately! Running the pump with the inlet unplugged for a couple of seconds is probably a pretty good shout, we shall see, although as soon as it's unplugged from the pump, I suspect the pump will just start to drain and i'll be a little stuffed after a couple of seconds, and I really don't wanna end up sucking in air and or running it dry.
@rubix_1011 Yeah not a bad shout, I was hoping I'd be able to find a way to fix it without having to actually take the RAD off, or CPU block apart or GPU block apart etc. but that may no longer be an option!

Thanks for the advice and suggestion guys, I'll let you know how I get on shortly!

 

[jamieinthejar]

Ok, so cosmetically... it's fixed. The fluid LOOKS like it's going through the tubes and you can't visibility see any bubbles/gaps.

https://imgur.com/a/JabO4l4

View: https://imgur.com/a/JabO4l4


Unscrewing the RAD and then turning it over and around seemed to eventually do the trick after about 15 minutes of faffing. It also only seemed to really do the trick when the RAD tube that goes to the INLET on the pump (right hand side) was lower than the pump itself.

My temperatures are still suffering a little, sitting at 60C idle right now for CPU (was playing games 45 minutes ago and only fixed the system 5 minutes ago). I'll see how temperatures do tomorrow and see if it's any better.

Thanks for the help so far! Homestretch?

 

[jamieinthejar]

Just to add, when I hit around 50-60% load on the CPU it seems to jump to almost 70C...

I've had temperatures really low before so I know at somepoint the system was working, oh the days...

This is also with all fans on max RPM (1900-1960).

Also worth noting that CAM alerted me a couple of times in the past two days whilst I was using the system that my CPU temp exceeded 81C

 

[rubix_1011]

Something isn't right if those are your temps. How are your GPU temps during gaming?

Your idle temps should be in the mid-20s to 30's C unless you have a really high overlock and high vcore.

If you gently squeeze the tubing leaving and entering the pump, can you tell if there is movement? If you open the reservoir cap, can you see if there is movement or swirling of coolant?

You said it was difficult to blow air through the radiator? Like, was it a difficult struggle? It should be easier than blowing up a balloon, if I were to try and compare it...radiators are some of the least restrictive components in a cooling loop.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ya know, there's prolly something really simple that's being overlooked, but for the life of me I don't see anything wrong. Flow is now right, inputs/outputs according to directions, coolant obviously moves through everything, only 3 things left. 1) cpu block was made on a Friday at 4:59pm and that stupid flapper is not set right. 2) that whole system just really does not like pastels. 3) forgot to pull the plastic from under the cpu block. 4) pump really isn't doin its job, should be strong enough to shoot coolant several feet away, shouldn't have any issue priming a 240mm rad.

This is supposedly one of EK's easy diy, no brainer type setups. You'd think a company like EK would know an easy setup when it saw it. You'd also think that if it wasn't an easy setup, pro reviewers like rubix would be all over just how easy it isn't, but that hasn't happened, in fact just the opposite. Good reviews for what it is.

So what's missing.

 

[jamieinthejar]

@rubix_1011 Yeah, I think although I've managed to now physically get liquid into the right tubes and fill up the system more, the actual pushing and pumping of the coolant is still suffering, hence the nasty temps. The temps used to be around 25-30c as you've said, prior to this coolant changeover.

I'll test GPU temps tonight to see how high they go, but generally speaking it looked to be about 10c less than the CPU most of the time and pretty steady.

I can see movement and swirling of coolant so it looks like the pump is giving it some, just maybe not enough? Or maybe the Mayhem white pastel liquid is that frickin' bad. Tried gently squeezing the tubing and leaving it, can't reallyyy see much or any movement, difficult to tell.

Brilliant, I would probably say a little easier than blowing up a balloon.

@Karadjgne Made me lol a bit, the system used to work fine, so I have to assume that somethings happened as part of me bleeding and then re-setting up the system. All of the tubing and setup was how I was running it for the past 12 months or so, therefore it definitely worked before, which leads me to believe that the CPU block is fine (flapper), definitely not the plastic from under the CPU block, I'd deserve to be drowned for that, I think it gets shortlisted to:

1. Blockage in CPU block, worst case something like this:
https://i.redd.it/cicnxy8ppo801.jpg

1. Pump isn't doing it's job (although it was running @ around 2800 RPM which seems fine, doesn't necessarily mean it's doing it's job but still, seems unlikely the pump is on the fritz).
2. The Mayhem Pastel is like glue and not worthy of staying in the system and I should switch it out.

Think I'll order some new coolant tonight along with another 5L distilled water and see what I can do when it arrives. I'm quite tempted at this point to just take apart the CPU block entirely.

All of the above aside, I highly rate the A240G, getting it setup was super easy especially seeing as I'd never touched water cooling prior to it and the first/second setup worked like a dream, it's only on this third changeover that it's gone a little downhill.

 

[jamieinthejar]

Distilled water should be here Saturday, considering doing a decent clean with vinegar etc. Mayhem Pastel's do apparently get quite mixed to bad reviews for clogging up systems and my pump did need a little cleaning.

 

[Karadjgne]

Lol, yeah rubix admitted that even he had a brain fart and stuck the flapper in backwards one time, so I'm guessing that if someone as experienced as him can do it, anyone can. Murphys Law strikes again.

But I've also seen multiple posts on the subject of coolant and ppl using the pastels and chalky coolants and even wanting to use car anti-freeze since if cars use it and not water, obviously it's better, right? Well no, it isn't. The given answer is that when it comes down to it, the simplest, easiest, often cheapest and best coolant for a loop is just plain old distilled water. Those pastels/chalks look cool, even better in multiple loops and colors, but are pulled apart right after the photoshoot because for everyday usage, plain water is far better. Well colored water is the same thing or even with a UV additive.

What I'm waiting to see is thermal reactant UV or something like it, like a mood ring that changes color with temps.

 

[jamieinthejar]

Haha yeah, makes sense, I think with the amount of gunk I saw laying around in the tubes and pump, taking the CPU block apart probably isn't a terrible idea, just a little time consuming and I've not done it before!

Yeah, seems that alot of people have had issues with Mayhem Pastel specifically, Mayhem UV seems fine, but the pastels specifically seem chalky and breakdown quite nastily even in a short period, looks like I'll be ordering some new coolant too! EKWB recommended?

That would be pretty nice, sounds like a million dollar idea you have there, thermal reactant UV!

 

[rubix_1011]

While you are waiting on the distilled water, you can use tap water if you wanted to empty the loop and try that.

And yeah, you might want to check the CPU block and radiator, seems like there's something gunked up or causing poor flow between those 2. Otherwise, maybe there's blockage inside the pump - can test that with a bowl of water and tubing...see if the pump can pump water to/from a bowl to make sure if moves coolant correctly.

 

[jamieinthejar]

Did consider it, but think I'm going to wait for the distilled, hate the idea of putting normal water in the system for some reason haha, besides only another day to wait!

My gut is that the CPU block is gunked up, think I'm going to take it apart tonight, but realistically what I actually need to do is do a proper clean with some vinegar too as no doubt there's white gunk laying around in the RAD and pipes still, not to mention what's in the GPU/CPU that I can't see.

The tiniest drop of dish soap has also been mentioned to try and help it along, but I'm not going to try that just yet.

Testing in a bowl is probably a good shout right now just to eliminate it's the pump - although I'm pretty sure the pump is doing the best job it can.

 

[rubix_1011]

Using tap water isn't going to cause any issues for a short-term test; its leaving it long-term that would be an issue. My idea is that you'd simply test with water and drain once you figured out the problem.

That little pump moves a lot of liquid - so you should see rapid flow if you are only testing the pump.

I question whether your GPU block is clogged, especially if coolant goes in and exits as quickly as you mention. Be careful opening GPU blocks, especially if they are not see-through plexi. It can be nearly impossible to get the rubber gasket to seat correctly if you aren't able to see that it might be slightly popped out and the gasket isn't cooperating by going back into the notched groove.

Easier test would be to test the pump and GPU block, pump and CPU block, pump and radiator individually.

This is perplexing to me and equally frustrating because so many little things I would attempt if it were me....including testing each component with the pump, individually.

 

[Karadjgne]

Perplexing, good word that. Frustrating too. Cuz I'd like to see this resolved and running smooth but the Aspy in me is dying to why it isn't. Worse than reading a series of books only to find the conclusion won't be written for another year or more.

 

[jamieinthejar]

Is running it with a combination of vinegar/water going to clear out the gunk if it's in there? I'm not sure how effective the vinegar is at properly cleaning the system.

Haha I feel your pain! I'll be home in about an hour so I'll get to work and run a test with just water, see how it is and I guess a long night of testing each component isn't a terrible idea.

From what I understand, the GPU block for the A240G is one that's quite universal (fits around 40-50 different cards) so it's a little more forgiving in terms of fit. I shall update you guys as to progress!

 

[jamieinthejar]

Quick update, came home and resovoir had leaked slightly purely due to the air pressure pushing coolant further in and air to the top with the cap on, I just ran water through the system and same issue, I'm now 99% sure I've got a blockage of some kind, but it does look like it may well be GPU rather than CPU...

 

[rubix_1011]

Might be time (and worth it) to pull the CPU block, GPU block (can leave mounted to GPU) and radiator and see if the pump pushes through all of these independently.

Vinegar and water (can be tap, also) is meant to help clean off anything that might be built up on the surfaces inside the components. I wouldn't run more than 50% water/vinegar solution, especially with aluminum. Be sure to rinse well as vinegar can really do some damage to aluminum if left in contact (pitting/etching).

I'm almost to the point of asking if you can ship me everything and let me check all this out for you - but I won't...its very good learning experience for you.