Question RAM For AMD And 2 sticks vs 4

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I have a 3200 x2 kit of Samsung b die, but the latency is the odd 15, whereas about everything on the msi ace qvl is 14 or 16 latency.

There is a 3600 x4 kit with latency of 16 for only a couple hundred dollars.

Is it worth the trouble and losses to buy the 3600 kit and try selling my other kit on ebay?

Someone said you shouldn't use a 4 stick kit, you should only use a 2 stick one. is this true? I forget what his reaosnw as, but seems like he said it's slower when using a 4 kit one.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Here is an interesting article for you: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-3000-best-memory-timings,6310-2.html

Talks about latency, speed, and dual rank/single rank and 2 or 4 dimms. It might give you some pointers.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Here is an interesting article for you: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-3000-best-memory-timings,6310-2.html

Talks about latency, speed, and dual rank/single rank and 2 or 4 dimms. It might give you some pointers.

thanks. only thing now is since my kit is so old, I don't know what I can sell it for. it's unopened Samsung b die, though.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Those B-die 320mhz DIMMS are sought after. They OC well. I'd say you'd get near to retails price for them. Stick them on local sellers and see what you can get. About 100$?

Embarrassingly enough, I didn't even ask what mobo you have, and have listed a Ryzen based artcile! DOH 🙄 Hopefully there's some relevance there haha!

 

[GeorgeGod]

I have a 3200 x2 kit of Samsung b die, but the latency is the odd 15, whereas about everything on the msi ace qvl is 14 or 16 latency.

There is a 3600 x4 kit with latency of 16 for only a couple hundred dollars.

Is it worth the trouble and losses to buy the 3600 kit and try selling my other kit on ebay?

Someone said you shouldn't use a 4 stick kit, you should only use a 2 stick one. is this true? I forget what his reaosnw as, but seems like he said it's slower when using a 4 kit one.

Maybe have 2 i have 2 maybe its better that but i dont know about that yet

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Those B-die 320mhz DIMMS are sought after. They OC well. I'd say you'd get near to retails price for them. Stick them on local sellers and see what you can get. About 100$?

Embarrassingly enough, I didn't even ask what mobo you have, and have listed a Ryzen based artcile! DOH 🙄 Hopefully there's some relevance there haha!

the article was very relevant because I am going to use a ryzen 3900x and an msi ace x570 mobo.

It's a 32gb kit, so most of those go for over $200 normally, but most are CL14 or CL16 and mine is CL15, so it may scare people off.

By the way mine is 3200 15-15-15-15 and the one I am tempted by is 3600 16-19-19-19. I wonder if those higher timings at the end make it where it would not be enough of a jump to be worth the trouble and cost?

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Deleted a couple posts where I was rambling. Trying to get to the point where someone can give me advice.

1. for some reason even though on ebay pre-owned kits of 32gb Samsung b-die sell for well over $200, Newegg still has my kit listed brand new for $200, so I am not going to get much if I sell it. 🙁

2. on Newegg, the kit I wanted is $250, but has 16-19-19 timings. The Samsung b die version is $350! Surely I shouldn't pay an extra $100 for that one when I am not going to OC above the listed speed?

3. so is it even worth the cost and trouble going to the 3600 x4 kit when those timings at the end will be higher? My kit isn't on the qvl so I would also feel safer getting the new one, but then it's no longer b die and has those higher timings.

 

[DMAN999]

If it was me, I would keep the RAM kit you have and manually OC it to 3333 Mhz or 3400 Mhz (or possibly higher) using Thaiphoon Burner and the Dram Calculator:

Info - Announcing DRAM Calculator for Ryzen with an Integrated Benchmark

1usmus just released a new version of the DRAM Calculator: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/announcing-dram-calculator-for-ryzen-v1-5-0-with-an-integrated-benchmark.255229/ Version 1.70: https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/ Added functionality to read current...

forums.tomshardware.com

I doubt you would notice any real world difference between the C15 3200 Mhz (running at 3400) vs the C16 3600 kit.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

If it was me, I would keep the RAM kit you have and manually OC it to 3333 Mhz or 3400 Mhz (or possibly higher) using Thaiphoon Burner and the Dram Calculator:

Info - Announcing DRAM Calculator for Ryzen with an Integrated Benchmark

1usmus just released a new version of the DRAM Calculator: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/announcing-dram-calculator-for-ryzen-v1-5-0-with-an-integrated-benchmark.255229/ Version 1.70: https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/ Added functionality to read current...

forums.tomshardware.com

I doubt you would notice any real world difference between the C15 3200 Mhz (running at 3400) vs the C16 3600 kit.

I'd just rather not OC or use a kit not on a qvl because then as soon as something doesn't work properly, they'll say "too bad. not on the qvl and also we don't guarantee OCed RAM". But if it's on the qvl, they'll have no excuses if it doesn't work at listed speed.

So I am wondering the real world difference between 3200 and 3600 in this situation. And even then I'd still have that not on qvl problem.

Oh also another reason I'd rather not OC that or the cpu is because this is my first build and I shouldn't really start messing with that stuff right off.

I am so confused why my kit is still $200 on newegg sealed, but other kits with around the same specs go for $240 use don ebay. If I could sell it on ebay for enough it would be more clear I should get the new kit... Maybe if I keep it a while then sell, but by then 3200 speed may be considered worthless to everyone.

This really sucks. My original budget was $1k and I am getting close to DOUBLE that because I am trying to get everything perfect and then overspending. 🙁 Originally had a $120 mobo and returned it and getting a $330 one. Now this RAM situation. Bought THREE gpus before deciding to be ok with only the 1070 ti since I don't game much.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

I doubt you would notice any real world difference between the C15 3200 Mhz (running at 3400) vs the C16 3600 kit.

You're right. There' practically no difference other than in synthetic bench's that have no real world relevance.

On a sidenote, Ryzen seemingly doesn't like odd numbered timings for CAS. Ill see if I can find the article.

 

[DMAN999]

On a sidenote, Ryzen seemingly doesn't like odd numbered timings for CAS. Ill see if I can find the article.

Disabling Gear Down Mode should allow the use of CL15, otherwise it gets rounded up to CL16 IIRC.

 

[logainofhades]

Disabling Gear Down Mode should allow the use of CL15, otherwise it gets rounded up to CL16 IIRC.

This is true. My CL17 Patriot 3733, would run at 18, until I disabled gear down mode.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

You're right. There' practically no difference other than in synthetic bench's that have no real world relevance.

On a sidenote, Ryzen seemingly doesn't like odd numbered timings for CAS. Ill see if I can find the article.

yeah someone told me about that odd number issue, as well. Also, I wish someone knew how those timings after the first one affect overall speed. In other words, someone told me that 3200 15-15-15 is FASTER than 3600 16-19-19, but I don't think that's true. Also, crucial has a webpage that says that the latency numbers listed are worthless and that the higher speed is always going to be faster RAM than a lower speed with better latency listed because real latency is not what those numbers are showing.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

This is true. My CL17 Patriot 3733, would run at 18, until I disabled gear down mode.

what does gear down mode do? I assume something related to when your gear is down? lol.

 

[logainofhades]

When disabled, it allows you to run odd CL timings. I don't know what it actually does though.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

When disabled, it allows you to run odd CL timings. I don't know what it actually does though.

I'm on the fence as to what I am going to do at this point. People say 3600 is the sweet spot for ryzen now and I just don't like changing OCing myself (above listed speed), so it's 3200 cl15 vs. 3600 cl16. Also 2 stick kit vs 4. I DOUBT it would be enough difference for me to care about, BUT I like the idea of getting a kit on the qvl where there's no excuse manufacturers can give me if it doesn't work right. And my kit is intel optimized, whereas the 3600 says ryzen optimized.

I may wait a week or two and see if anything good goes on sale. Like maybe if that $350 Samsung b die 3600 kit would go on sale, i'd get it. I got my original kit when Newegg had a 20% off all g.skill memory sale, I believe. If only they'd do that now...

 

[DMAN999]

what does gear down mode do? I assume something related to when your gear is down? lol.

Gear Down Mode adds an extra Clock cycle to RAM access to ensure stability.
If your RAM is set to 2T instead of 1T then Gear Down Mode is disabled by Default.

A Reliability, Availability and Serviceability (aka RAS) feature more clearly documented in the new JEDEC DDR4 Rev B spec, Gear-down mode, allows the DRAM Address/Command and Control bus to use every other rising clock of the DDR4 Memory bus clock.

From here:

What is DDR4 Memory Gear-Down Mode?

What is DDR4 Memory Gear-Down Mode?

www.futureplus.com

 

[TJ Hooker]

I'm on the fence as to what I am going to do at this point. People say 3600 is the sweet spot for ryzen now and I just don't like changing OCing myself (above listed speed), so it's 3200 cl15 vs. 3600 cl16. Also 2 stick kit vs 4. I DOUBT it would be enough difference for me to care about, BUT I like the idea of getting a kit on the qvl where there's no excuse manufacturers can give me if it doesn't work right. And my kit is intel optimized, whereas the 3600 says ryzen optimized.

In the link in the first reply to this thread, Tomshardware found in their testing that 3600 MHz vs 3200 MHz only made 5% difference in the few most memory bound benchmarks in their test suit (the majority of the benchmarks showed so little difference as to not be worth talking about).

A two DIMM kit is generally preferable than a 4 DIMM kit, as it's typically easier to run 2 sticks than 4. I wouldn't be overly worried about compatibility, 3200 MHz isn't really all that fast for Ryzen 3K CPUs. In fact, if you're only running 2 DIMMs then 3200 MHz is actually the official rated speed for Ryzen 3K.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

In the link in the first reply to this thread, Tomshardware found in their testing that 3600 MHz vs 3200 MHz only made 5% difference in the few most memory bound benchmarks in their test suit (the majority of the benchmarks showed so little difference as to not be worth talking about).

A two DIMM kit is generally preferable than a 4 DIMM kit, as it's typically easier to run 2 sticks than 4. I wouldn't be overly worried about compatibility, 3200 MHz isn't really all that fast for Ryzen 3K CPUs. In fact, if you're only running 2 DIMMs then 3200 MHz is actually the official rated speed for Ryzen 3K.

ok thanks for your opinion. I am still considering about anything at this point. I definitely don't like that it's not on the qvl and has an odd number though. But I also of course am tired of sinking more money in.

On the page linked to, it said 4 stick kits do better, speed-wise, though. Also, gaming benches don't matter to me, but if it's well above 5% in common tasks I'd do it would matter. If it's indeed 5% why do people rush to OC memory at all? Seems odd that they'd do it for 5% improvement unless they are wanting every ounce of performanc ein a game maybe.

 

[DMAN999]

ok thanks for your opinion. I am still considering about anything at this point. I definitely don't like that it's not on the qvl and has an odd number though. But I also of course am tired of sinking more money in.

On the page linked to, it said 4 stick kits do better, speed-wise, though. Also, gaming benches don't matter to me, but if it's well above 5% in common tasks I'd do it would matter. If it's indeed 5% why do people rush to OC memory at all? Seems odd that they'd do it for 5% improvement unless they are wanting every ounce of performanc ein a game maybe.

Most people don't OC their RAM or their CPU, but this is a forum frequented mostly by PC Enthusiasts which means we like to tinker with/tweak our PCs because we enjoy doing it.

 

[TJ Hooker]

On the page linked to, it said 4 stick kits do better, speed-wise, though.

It's not the number of sticks that matter but the number of memory ranks, as explained in the article text. 4 ranks perform better than 2. Recent 8GB sticks are typically single rank, so you'd need 4 DIMMs to get four ranks (which is what they did in the article). But your 16GB sticks are very likely dual rank, so you can get four ranks with just two DIMMs.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Most people don't OC their RAM or their CPU, but this is a forum frequented mostly by PC Enthusiasts which means we like to tinker with/tweak our PCs because we enjoy doing it.

yeah, I may do so myself over time, especially since I went overboard on mobo.

It's not the number of sticks that matter but the number of memory ranks, as explained in the article text. 4 ranks perform better than 2. Recent 8GB sticks are typically single rank, so you'd need 4 DIMMs to get four ranks (which is what they did in the article). But your 16GB sticks are very likely dual rank, so you can get four ranks with just two DIMMs.

Thanks. Good point. Yes I remember seeing they are dual rank. HOWEVER, I was watching a video by Steve from gamersnexus where he did say even though the optimized for intel or optimized for amd doesn't really matter, it MAY matter if you get a kit not on a qvl. He said kits on the qvl mean the mobo manufacturer could have tweaked things to where it will work fine right off without messing with timings yourself. So I am still leaning getting a different kit and selling this one. I hate to test it first because even on pc parts you get more money for sealed ones than used on ebay.

 

[TJ Hooker]

MAY matter if you get a kit not on a qvl. He said kits on the qvl mean the mobo manufacturer could have tweaked things to where it will work fine right off without messing with timings yourself.

I don't know about the mobo manufacturer doing any tweaking, but yes, if RAM is on the QVL list that means the manufacturer guarantees compatibility whereas if it's not that means the particular RAM kit in question has not been tested with that mobo so they can't guarantee it works 100%. The number of kits that aren't on the QVL is obviously much larger than the number that are, given how many kits are out there. For what it's worth the last two kits I bought weren't on my mobo's QVL list and I've never had any issues.

What exact RAM model do you currently have?

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I don't know about the mobo manufacturer doing any tweaking, but yes, if RAM is on the QVL list that means the manufacturer guarantees compatibility whereas if it's not that means the particular RAM kit in question has not been tested with that mobo so they can't guarantee it works 100%. The number of kits that aren't on the QVL is obviously much larger than the number that are, given how many kits are out there. For what it's worth the last two kits I bought weren't on my mobo's QVL list and I've never had any issues.

What exact RAM model do you currently have?

I have F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW. It's Samsung b die, supposedly, but even g.skill acted like I'd need a good mobo when I was wanting an x470.

For x470 a kit with that same model number EXCEPT the color code at the end was on the asrock fatal1ty mobo qvl. But I haven't seen a kit even close to that model number on others and now I ordered the x570 msi ace. I do know that the msi ace is known for handling RAM well, but who knows as far as this kit...

And, as you see, it has the 15 latency. At the time I didn't know about the whole odd number latency situation and I just thought "most kits on sale now are 16 latency, I know... I'll get this 15 one to be even slightly better".

Prices are pretty nice to buy another kit, but the problem is I bought this kit when it was freakin $330. And that was ON SALE when it was normally $410. Now its price is all the way down to freakin $199, so I am losing a bundle reselling it after shipping and fees.

 

[TJ Hooker]

But I haven't seen a kit even close to that model number on others and now I ordered the x570 msi ace.

There's a very similar kit on the MSI ACE QVL: F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW. Looks to be identical (also dual rank Samsung B die) other than that all the primary timings are one lower. Given that tighter timings are harder to run, if it can run that kit it seems like it ought to have a good chance of running yours.

And, as you see, it has the 15 latency.

Pretty sure it'll just default to 16 rather than 15 when you enable the XMP profile. Not a big deal.