Question RAM For AMD And 2 sticks vs 4

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I have a 3200 x2 kit of Samsung b die, but the latency is the odd 15, whereas about everything on the msi ace qvl is 14 or 16 latency.

There is a 3600 x4 kit with latency of 16 for only a couple hundred dollars.

Is it worth the trouble and losses to buy the 3600 kit and try selling my other kit on ebay?

Someone said you shouldn't use a 4 stick kit, you should only use a 2 stick one. is this true? I forget what his reaosnw as, but seems like he said it's slower when using a 4 kit one.

 

[Karadjgne]

Umm the Corsair 550w RMx is a seriously good psu and I don't see it in any way being incompatible with an ATX mobo. As regards the EPS, that's a real conundrum of a subject. It supplies supplemental 12v to the cpu, over and above what's given by the 20+4pin. For years you could slap a 4pin in an 8pin EPS and have no issues.

As is, the 3900x only pulls 150w or less, easily handled by a 4pin EPS, never mind an 8pin. An 8pin EPS connector is capable of 384w by itself, without help from the mains.

The extra pinouts on some mobo's are where things go nuts. There was a lot of supposition about actual power draws concerning the 3k series, so it's entirely possible the EPS headers are linked somehow, with some mobo designs that predate actual release. Or possibly it's just a X570 thing, since they all seem to be using 8+4/8+8 and it's not a power issue, but a thermal issue on the smaller amount of pins pulling higher amperage, so creating more heat per pin.

Yes, normally you'd not need extra EPS. The cpu won't be using that kind of power draw except in extreme cases, like LN2 super OC world record attempts etc. Even a good OC or hard usage isn't going to put that cpu over an 8pin+mains limit.

But maybe some boards don't see it like that and need it populated.

Newegg ships pretty fast. And you have credit. If all else fails, you have options for a larger psu, but I don't see the need. I pushed an i7-3770K at 4.9GHz (about 200+w OC) and a gtx970 @ 124%OC for the better part of 6 years on an Evga G2 550w, basically equitable to the 550w RMx, and have had 0 power issues.

I've not seen or heard any concrete evidence either way, from anywhere, what I do know is you can slap a 3900x in an X470 with a single 8pin EPS and not have compatability issues with such a good psu as the RMx.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Umm the Corsair 550w RMx is a seriously good psu and I don't see it in any way being incompatible with an ATX mobo. As regards the EPS, that's a real conundrum of a subject. It supplies supplemental 12v to the cpu, over and above what's given by the 20+4pin. For years you could slap a 4pin in an 8pin EPS and have no issues.

As is, the 3900x only pulls 150w or less, easily handled by a 4pin EPS, never mind an 8pin. An 8pin EPS connector is capable of 384w by itself, without help from the mains.

The extra pinouts on some mobo's are where things go nuts. There was a lot of supposition about actual power draws concerning the 3k series, so it's entirely possible the EPS headers are linked somehow, with some mobo designs that predate actual release. Or possibly it's just a X570 thing, since they all seem to be using 8+4/8+8 and it's not a power issue, but a thermal issue on the smaller amount of pins pulling higher amperage, so creating more heat per pin.

Yes, normally you'd not need extra EPS. The cpu won't be using that kind of power draw except in extreme cases, like LN2 super OC world record attempts etc. Even a good OC or hard usage isn't going to put that cpu over an 8pin+mains limit.

But maybe some boards don't see it like that and need it populated.

Newegg ships pretty fast. And you have credit. If all else fails, you have options for a larger psu, but I don't see the need. I pushed an i7-3770K at 4.9GHz (about 200+w OC) and a gtx970 @ 124%OC for the better part of 6 years on an Evga G2 550w, basically equitable to the 550w RMx, and have had 0 power issues.

I've not seen or heard any concrete evidence either way, from anywhere, what I do know is you can slap a 3900x in an X470 with a single 8pin EPS and not have compatability issues with such a good psu as the RMx.

That was what I was afraid of too is that somehow the mobos could tell one vs. the other on the 8-pins and that buildzoid and others were just assuming. After all, he said that you can ignore it simply by him looking at a diagrem, not based on actual testing himself.

What he claims, though, is that there's now ay that the mobo could know which it's getting the power from. I just had been thinking like you, that maybe manufacturers found some way to do something where it truly matters.

Now, on the msi forums, even moderators seem to be saying the second is optional, but they don't technically speak for msi.

As for 8/8 and 8/4, I saw a lot of mobos from asus and asrock that are solely 1 8-pin and that's it. Then a few 8/4. Then msi and gigabyte seem to be the only ones doing the 8/8. Kind of odd because msi and gigabyte are also the only ones lettting you turn the chipset fan all the way off under x temp.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

A g.skill 3200 kit that is on the qvl (I assume b-die since it's 14-14-14) is on sale for $220. Not sure if it's worth it to me to do it or not... since all I'd gain is 1 on latency and nothing on speed, but would just know it's guaranteed. Then I'd say i'd get about $150 after fees and shipping for my kit, so i'd be out $70 )or more really, due to tax...) just for peace of mind.

If it were 3600 Samsung b die I'd for sure do it at that price.

 

[Karadjgne]

To me, it's not worth it.

My ram defaults at 1600 9-9-9-27 2T. It xmp to 1866 10-11-10-30 2T. I've run it at 1866 9-10-9-28 1T, 2100 10-11-10-30 1T and 2400 11-12-11-36 1T, all stable, no errors, all at 1.505v.

Windows was the only way I actually saw any difference whatsoever. Granted I didn't benchmark, but gaming showed no difference. What I did see was the Windows 4 color logo at boot. With the slower set ram, I'd get all 4 colors would appear 1 by 1. With the fastest set ram, I'd get 3 before the OS popped up. Other than that, no visible change. If I gained a second or 3 when compiling or extracting with winzip/7-zip, it wasn't noticed.

I'd not spend $220 for ram just to drop timings by 1 Cas, when your ram will most likely do it anyways with manual settings.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

To me, it's not worth it.

My ram defaults at 1600 9-9-9-27 2T. It xmp to 1866 10-11-10-30 2T. I've run it at 1866 9-10-9-28 1T, 2100 10-11-10-30 1T and 2400 11-12-11-36 1T, all stable, no errors, all at 1.505v.

Windows was the only way I actually saw any difference whatsoever. Granted I didn't benchmark, but gaming showed no difference. What I did see was the Windows 4 color logo at boot. With the slower set ram, I'd get all 4 colors would appear 1 by 1. With the fastest set ram, I'd get 3 before the OS popped up. Other than that, no visible change. If I gained a second or 3 when compiling or extracting with winzip/7-zip, it wasn't noticed.

I'd not spend $220 for ram just to drop timings by 1 Cas, when your ram will most likely do it anyways with manual settings.

the lowering timing by 1 was just an "at least I'd get that" benefit, but the main reason to buy would be to guarantee the kit works. If I use this kit if anything EVER goes wrong, g.skill can say well you sued it on an incompatible mobo and refuse to do anything. I hate to chance that. I'd rather get a higher speed kit, though, because it indeed would suck to lose money just to get the same kit almost.

 

[DMAN999]

the lowering timing by 1 was just an "at least I'd get that" benefit, but the main reason to buy would be to guarantee the kit works. If I use this kit if anything EVER goes wrong, g.skill can say well you sued it on an incompatible mobo and refuse to do anything. I hate to chance that. I'd rather get a higher speed kit, though, because it indeed would suck to lose money just to get the same kit almost.

That is a valid reason, but just to let you know that from my experience with G.Skill, they are Very good about replacing a faulty RAM kit.
I recently had a stick of G.Skill RGB Ram fail due to corrupted SPD info caused by Asus Aura and they replaced the kit without question.
I sent it to them on a Monday and that Friday I had a new kit in my mailbox.
Just be sure to keep the original packaging in case you ever need to RMA it.
I have only ever RMA'd RAM twice in the last 30 years and both time it was G.Skill RAM and they replaced it without any hassle both times.

And just to clarify, I have had RAM fail a few times over the years but G.Skill was the only company to honor the lifetime warranty.
That is a big part of why you see me recommending G.Skill RAM whenever it is applicable.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

That is a valid reason, but just to let you know that from my experience with G.Skill, they are Very good about replacing a faulty RAM kit.
I recently had a stick of G.Skill RGB Ram fail due to corrupted SPD info caused by Asus Aura and they replaced the kit without question.
I sent it to them on a Monday and that Friday I had a new kit in my mailbox.
Just be sure to keep the original packaging in case you ever need to RMA it.
I have only ever RMA'd RAM twice in the last 30 years and both time it was G.Skill RAM and they replaced it without any hassle both times.

And just to clarify, I have had RAM fail a few times over the years but G.Skill was the only company to honor the lifetime warranty.
That is a big part of why you see me recommending G.Skill RAM whenever it is applicable.

do you remember if they asked which mobo you sued it in, though? I bet they ask for it ona form or something. And then they can deny it, although if the stick is flat faulty where it would have an issue on ANY mobo, I'd think they'd about have to replace it.

 

[Karadjgne]

Gskill is one of those companies who go above and beyond. They test all their ram on every mobo they can get, in house. I'd not like to say they welcome rma's as such, but they do, kinda. It's something else they can add to the list. Software that affects their ram? Sure they want to know about it. They benefit far more than the cost of sending you a replacement, overall. It's a very healthy way to look at things. Crucial is similar, as is Kingston and Corsair. Word of mouth goes a lot farther than an advertisement.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Gskill is one of those companies who go above and beyond. They test all their ram on every mobo they can get, in house. I'd not like to say they welcome rma's as such, but they do, kinda. It's something else they can add to the list. Software that affects their ram? Sure they want to know about it. They benefit far more than the cost of sending you a replacement, overall. It's a very healthy way to look at things. Crucial is similar, as is Kingston and Corsair. Word of mouth goes a lot farther than an advertisement.

I don't doubt their support level, but I have talked to them before and they flat told me for my kit I'd need an intel mobo or a particular high end x470 (I asked last year). I think their example was one of those asus crosshair ones. They said it "should" be able to hit 2933 for ryzen 2xxx, though, IIRC. I haven't asked about it with ryzen 3. But notice basically no cl15 3200 kits are on this mobo's qvl.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ryzen bios doesn't natively do odd number Cas timings. Everything in the infinity fabric is setup around the data rate, not the dual data rate, so odd number timings can get funky results. Some seem to really blossom, most don't. When vendors test ram on mobo's, it's at default settings, not adjusted settings, and in the bios is a switch, the geardown mode. GDM can make your pc more stable, but it disallows odd Cas.

It's a catch 22, disable GDM can increase instability, but allows Cas15 settings, or enable GDM for better stability, but run the ram manually set to Cas 14/16.

Since it's a switch, vendors aren't testing much odd Cas as they'll not tamper with stock settings on the ram or bios.

I'm not positive, but I don't think early release boards in 1st gen even had GDM, but they did have fits with Cas15 ram getting anything over 2933MHz.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

yeah and so we're right back to the maybe I should buy the other RAM where I don't have to deal with it. I'd much rather have RAM where enabling xmp or w/e it's called has it working right off, as the other kit does.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I am so confused. I could have sworn I saw a 3600 cl16 32gb kit on their qvl, but when I type in f4-3600c16d- there are no 32gb kits that show up. nless maybe its code was different than that.

Also, umm do they not test ANY 64gb kits? Doesn't seem to have any 64gb kits in 3200 cl14 or 3600 cl16.

edit: oh ok it's the q ones, ie the 4 stick kits. Btw, what's "Samsung 5wb"?

Also, as for odd timings, they tested a TON of cl17 3600 kits. So they do it... they just didn't do it on 3200 for some reason.

And check this bs out. That 3600 kit I mentioned for $250? the 2 stick version of the same exact kit is only $190, but.... of course not on the qvl.

This is getting REALLY annoying how often a kit almost on the qvl isn't on it. F4-3600C16D-16GTZSW is on it, but not the 32gb version. probably works, and is b die, but not officially on it.

There's not a single one of the 2 stick 32gb 2600 kits on the qvl, but tons of 4 stick ones and also 64 gb kits.

edit: I should just get the 3200 kit and be done. Since they have SO few kits on the qvl, that was pretty much the only 3200 kit I could get of 32gb and the b die 3600 kit isn't even on it! ure the ones close to the same (such as 32gb of same ones that are on the qvl for their 16gb counterparts) should work, but only guarantee that you're covered is that one kit for $220 basically.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

If I do buy one, here's one for people to chime in on... $220 3200 cl14 b-die vs $250 3600 cl15 non-b-die?

Normally 3600 cl16 would be slightly better than the 3200, but b die is better than the rest. If not OCing above listed speed, what does it even matter if it's b die or not, though?

I also don't get why people keep claiming b die is out of production, yet it's still readily available for not too crazy of prices. If I knew it was REALLY about to be scarce, I'd buy me some more and then hold on to my old kit until it goes up in value. But my luck would be that it's NOT going to be scarce until ddr4 is obsolete.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Hello? I really still haven't gotten an answer on how much difference Samsung b die makes, assuming a kit of it and a kit of something else are both on a qvl and also me not going to OC above specs listed. ie if 3600 something else would be better than 3200 b die.

Also, if there's really not a hge difference between speeds and timings, as people claim, well... 64gb of g.skill 3200 is about the same price as the 32gb b die 3200.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Hello?

Sale goes off soon. What's odd is I haven't seen newegg do a sitewide g.skill sale lately. Last year over and over they'd do x% off all g.skill one week then x% off all corsair the next or reverse order etc...

I guess I could wait a tad later, but now I have all parts except deciding on RAM and need an adaptor to still sue my old monitor that uses dvi-d DL.

 

[DMAN999]

Hello? I really still haven't gotten an answer on how much difference Samsung b die makes, assuming a kit of it and a kit of something else are both on a qvl and also me not going to OC above specs listed. ie if 3600 something else would be better than 3200 b die.

Also, if there's really not a hge difference between speeds and timings, as people claim, well... 64gb of g.skill 3200 is about the same price as the 32gb b die 3200.

I can say this:
I had a Hynix AFC based C16 kit and now I have a Samsung B die C16 kit and their performance is the essentially same on my system.
And I can't OC them any better than I could the Hynix kit.
So if you want slightly faster performance a c14 kit will perform slightly better than a c16 kit.
For me the price difference wasn't worth the extra cost but only you can say if it is worth it to you.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

At least this is finally my last decision... I got the upc code area cut off of my meg ace mobo, so no going abck on mobo choice now... And gave someone the define c case to ship back and so definitely going to sue the r6.

I would have rather got the aorus master mobo, but oh well... too late now. Probably will go on sale, of coruse, now that I am keeping the other.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

In a review on the Samsung 3200 cl14, he INTENTIONALLY set the timing to an odd one to make it 3600 cl15. So still confused what to do.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

cool. as if I didn't have enough issues with this build, now I have to permanently boycott amazon. Good thing other stores have started price matching those clowns where it won't be as hard to be done with them.

After I sent a define c case back to them for refund the idiots tell me courtesy credits aren't refunded. So I am returning an $80+ case for $11! Like I really would have done that had I known they'd try to get out of refunding the credits I used on it.

They NEVER told me the credits had to be used on the next purchase and wouldn't be refunded if you return the item. And now they ignored me in chat for 45 mins and tell me there is no higher department to contact.

If anyone happens to know of some department above their normal support, let me know. I think I[m going to keep returning stuff just to screw them over, too. Sadly, I have almost $200 in credit I have to spend with them. Then I may ask them how to close my account, so maybe they'll give me back money then when someone is asking to close an account. What kind of morons think someone would intentionally return an $80 purchase for a $11 refund?

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Another note on the original topic... G,skill says it's a lot easier to get high frequencies from 8gb kits than 16gb ones, thus another reason why 4x8 is more likely to be compatible than 2x16. Figures, since Newegg has the 2 stick kit for like $80 less than the 4 stick kit of the same model.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I'm seriously wondering now whether or not to get 64gb RAM. lol. If I feel like I should get RAM on the qvl, maybe I should Go the extra mile and get 64 instead of 32.

I saw a vid on youtube that showed that 64 gb speeds up rendering in adobe premiere and aftereffects by over 30%. Whereas 32gb barely does better in those programs than 16gb.

Or I could go the opposite direction in thinking and get only 16gb and figure who cares if rendering is slower since it wouldn't be for a business.

32gb b-die was on sale for $285
64gb of Hynix, but still on the qvl, is on sale for $360

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Now check this out... The 2 stick kit that wasn't on my qvl and they told me the reason for it was that it's easier to get 4 stick kits to high frequencies... I just noticed it IS now on the qvl (on g.skill's end).

And it's on sale for $170. But I still would rather get b die than crappy Hynix. Pretty ridiculous, though, that the cost goes from $170 all the way to $300 for the same speed and main latency just to switch from Hynix to Samsung.