Question RAM upgrade

[MarQs1010]

Thinking about buying 2+ RAM sticks 4gb each to add to my other 2x4 gb sticks that i already have. The kit that im thinking of buying is the exact same one as the one i already have (
HyperX Kit 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4 2666MHz Fury Black CL15 ) because i thought that it would be easier to reach peak performance and wouldnt have to deal with compatibility issues. Now the problem is that some random dude comented on a post of mine which said i was going to get new RAM sticks cuz i've getting a lot of stutters in gta v , and he just comes and says that it isnt guaranteed that it will work without any issue. What issues might i have? Or is he just trynna act smart?

 

[PC Tailor]

Welcome to the forums my friend!

I know who you are referring to, and they could easily find see this thread as a heads up! However they are not just acting smart.

Unfortunately RAM is only guaranteed in the form sold (from the same pack) as the manufacturing process and materials (silicon/solder paste etc.) changes frequently, and even dust particles in the air can influence the nature of the module.

Making sure they are the same make / model / timings is just a way to try and minimise risk, not eliminate it, and ultimately 2 of the exact same model from 2 different packs could technically completely misbehave with one another. It becomes a little more difficult when you are running a different number of mixed modules too.

Realistically, if you are going to mix modules, just try and make the timings, voltages, speed etc. the same, but in reality, even choosing the exact same model would yield the same risk.

It's for this reason that it's always best practice to buy a whole new pack of RAM. Not saying it never works, but it's a 50/50 gamble. So it might work, it might not. And sometimes it can cause instability down the road - like in a game.

HAVING SAID THAT, the stutters could be a variety of things (including mixed RAM modules) so it's a case of identifying and eliminating the possible causes.

 

[MarQs1010]

Welcome to the forums my friend!

I know who you are referring to, and they could easily find see this thread as a heads up! However they are not just acting smart.

Unfortunately RAM is only guaranteed in the form sold (from the same pack) as the manufacturing process and materials (silicon/solder paste etc.) changes frequently, and even dust particles in the air can influence the nature of the module.

Making sure they are the same make / model / timings is just a way to try and minimise risk, not eliminate it, and ultimately 2 of the exact same model from 2 different packs could technically completely misbehave with one another. It becomes a little more difficult when you are running a different number of mixed modules too.

Realistically, if you are going to mix modules, just try and make the timings, voltages, speed etc. the same, but in reality, even choosing the exact same model would yield the same risk.

It's for this reason that it's always best practice to buy a whole new pack of RAM. Not saying it never works, but it's a 50/50 gamble. So it might work, it might not. And sometimes it can cause instability down the road - like in a game.

HAVING SAID THAT, the stutters could be a variety of things (including mixed RAM modules) so it's a case of identifying and eliminating the possible causes.

Jeez never thought adding the same exact pair of RAM would be such a gamble. Is it rlly a 50/50 gamble? I would be down to just buy a 2x8 kit but then i would not use the ones that i already have. Buying new ones and selling the current ones would'nt be as worth it as having 4 sticks from the same 2 kits i think.

 

[PC Tailor]

Jeez never thought adding the same exact pair of RAM would be such a gamble. Is it rlly a 50/50 gamble? I would be down to just buy a 2x8 kit but then i would not use the ones that i already have. Buying new ones and selling the current ones would'nt be as worth it as having 4 sticks from the same 2 kits i think.

It is a gamble, now is it as strong as 50/50, maybe, maybe not, but it is to build the point that there really is no guarantee.

The manufacturing of RAM (and almost any PCB or chip) is actually a very delicate process, it is performed in very highly regulated clean rooms, and the material that goes into those components are also very delicate to change.

Each chip is cut out of silicon, and that silicon can be prone to various impurities or contamination even simply from dust, which can affect the compatibility of the modules. The point being, is they pre-determine the modules that will go in a pack, manufacture accordingly, and then test them on a system together at the end, so by all accounts, there are no guarantees thereafter.

You can actually buy 2 of the EXACT SAME MODEL RAM, but from 2 different packs, and they can (and have) not been compatible.

So does it not work all of the time? No, there are plenty of times where it does work.
But is it a gamble? Absolutely yes.

They may place nice, or they may stop your PC from booting at all, and in many cases, they work fine, and then cause instability later when you start overclocking, or changing platforms for example.

I would be down to just buy a 2x8 kit but then i would not use the ones that i already have. Buying new ones and selling the current ones would'nt be as worth it as having 4 sticks from the same 2 kits i think.

In regards to this, I will stick by my original comment, it certainly is best practice to buy a whole new pack when upgrading just to avoid the potential headache - having said that, i can't say for any certainty that the mixed RAM is what is causing your stutters.

 

[sizzling]

The above covers it very well, this is just to add some support. Over the years I have mixed RAM on occasions without issue, however a couple of years ago I got caught with an issue mixing 2 sets of 2x4gb which were the same make model. The system was completely unstable, I did manage to get the system running by loosening the timings, over volting and running at stock speed and not rated speed. So I have first hand experienced issues mixing the same make and model.

 

[MarQs1010]

It is a gamble, now is it as strong as 50/50, maybe, maybe not, but it is to build the point that there really is no guarantee.

The manufacturing of RAM (and almost any PCB or chip) is actually a very delicate process, it is performed in very highly regulated clean rooms, and the material that goes into those components are also very delicate to change.

Each chip is cut out of silicon, and that silicon can be prone to various impurities or contamination even simply from dust, which can affect the compatibility of the modules. The point being, is they pre-determine the modules that will go in a pack, manufacture accordingly, and then test them on a system together at the end, so by all accounts, there are no guarantees thereafter.

You can actually buy 2 of the EXACT SAME MODEL RAM, but from 2 different packs, and they can (and have) not been compatible.

So does it not work all of the time? No, there are plenty of times where it does work.
But is it a gamble? Absolutely yes.

They may place nice, or they may stop your PC from booting at all, and in many cases, they work fine, and then cause instability later when you start overclocking, or changing platforms for example.


In regards to this, I will stick by my original comment, it certainly is best practice to buy a whole new pack when upgrading just to avoid the potential headache - having said that, i can't say for any certainty that the mixed RAM is what is causing your stutters.

With that being said im now more tempted to buy a new 2x8 kit, but i currently have a Asus prime b450m-a motherboard which says it supports 4 x DIMM, Máx. 32GB, DDR4 3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2933(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666/2400/2133 MHz Un-buffered Memory . The kit im intending to buy advertises 3000mhz, so will i have any problem with this or i just simply need to turn on XMP or whatever it is for AMD (i think it is not actually called XMP on AMD motherboards) ?

Btw : RAM G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3000MHz CL16

 

[MarQs1010]

In regards to this, I will stick by my original comment, it certainly is best practice to buy a whole new pack when upgrading just to avoid the potential headache - having said that, i can't say for any certainty that the mixed RAM is what is causing your stutters.

Oh no you missunderstood me there, i dont have mixed RAMs i simple have a memory kit and was thinking of getting one more. The 8gb that i currently have are most probably the reason im stuttering in gta v as the game is known to use up to 12gb of RAM

 

[PC Tailor]

Oh no you missunderstood me there, i dont have mixed RAMs i simple have a memory kit and was thinking of getting one more. The 8gb that i currently have are most probably the reason im stuttering in gta v as the game is known to use up to 12gb of RAM

In which case, I would personally recommend getting a new pack and selling the old, just to avoid the headache, as there is not much worse than buying components just to find they don't play nicely.

To get up to 3000 you will simply just OC the RAM using XMP or DOCP (on some AMD systems). Ryzen will usually run at 2933, not 3000 just as a note.

 

[MarQs1010]

To get up to 3000 you will simply just OC the RAM using XMP or DOCP (on some AMD systems). Ryzen will usually run at 2933, not 3000 just as a note.

That is just a BIOS option that i need to turn on right?

 

[PC Tailor]

That is just a BIOS option that i need to turn on right?

Correct.

 

[MarQs1010]

Correct.

Well, thanks for everything

 

[dorsai]

With that being said im now more tempted to buy a new 2x8 kit, but i currently have a Asus prime b450m-a motherboard which says it supports 4 x DIMM, Máx. 32GB, DDR4 3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2933(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666/2400/2133 MHz Un-buffered Memory . The kit im intending to buy advertises 3000mhz, so will i have any problem with this or i just simply need to turn on XMP or whatever it is for AMD (i think it is not actually called XMP on AMD motherboards) ?

Btw : RAM G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3000MHz CL16

One thing to consider when buying memory for Ryzen cpus is the memory wiring of the motherboard itself...which is either T topology or daisy-chain...im pretty sure the b450-m is going to be daisy-chain topology so adding 4 sticks of memory to the board will limit the memory speeds. The daisy-chain topology is what almost all AMD motherboards use because they are dual channel and meant to be used with 2 memory sticks...the faster the better. When memory shopping for Ryzen cpu's faster speeds and tighter timings are what you are looking for...3200mhz @ cas 14 is ideal and will provide the same performance as 3400 @ cas 16.

 

[MarQs1010]

One thing to consider when buying memory for Ryzen cpus is the memory wiring of the motherboard itself...which is either T topology or daisy-chain...im pretty sure the b450-m is going to be daisy-chain topology so adding 4 sticks of memory to the board will limit the memory speeds. The daisy-chain topology is what almost all AMD motherboards use because they are dual channel and meant to be used with 2 memory sticks...the faster the better. When memory shopping for Ryzen cpu's faster speeds and tighter timings are what you are looking for...3200mhz @ cas 14 is ideal and will provide the same performance as 3400 @ cas 16.

I'm buying a new pair and gettin rid of the current one so i wont have to deal with what ur talking about

 

[PC Tailor]

I'm buying a new pair and gettin rid of the current one so i wont have to deal with what ur talking about

In short what they're trying to say is that each motherboard can have a different layout with how it uses memory. A daisy chain is typically indicated by 4 RAM slots, with 2 different colours, this is a typical Dual Channel layout and means if you fully populate it with 4 RAM modules, you could actually reduce the performance of your RAM (without going into detail, you're putting 2 RAM modules in 1 channel to the CPU).

That and if it is a Ryzen system, it tends to prefer faster RAM, so if you can opt for 3200, you would get better gains, 3000 RAM with a CAS Latency of 14 (CL14) is shown to be best, but frankly, the cost can often outweight the benefits.

TL;DR, depending on the motherboard, buy 2 RAM modules (2x8GB), not 4 (4x4GB) e.g, as it can reduce performance, and if you can go for 3200 RAM, the better.

 

[MarQs1010]

In short what they're trying to say is that each motherboard can have a different layout with how it uses memory. A daisy chain is typically indicated by 4 RAM slots, with 2 different colours, this is a typical Dual Channel layout and means if you fully populate it with 4 RAM modules, you could actually reduce the performance of your RAM (without going into detail, you're putting 2 RAM modules in 1 channel to the CPU).

That and if it is a Ryzen system, it tends to prefer faster RAM, so if you can opt for 3200, you would get better gains, 3000 RAM with a CAS Latency of 14 (CL14) is shown to be best, but frankly, the cost can often outweight the benefits.

TL;DR, depending on the motherboard, buy 2 RAM modules (2x8GB), not 4 (4x4GB) e.g, as it can reduce performance, and if you can go for 3200 RAM, the better.

yeh yeh got it, i've seen that too, that AMD Cpus like fast RAM but i just dont have the budget, plus the RAM kit im bout to buy is on sale.