Review Raspberry Pi 5 Review: A New Standard for Makers

[jcyr]

According to whom was this the policy?

BTW, anyone who had a pre-existing supply contract doesn't count. You can't realistically expect them to break contracts they already had in place. Unless you don't care if they go bankrupt from having to litigate numerous lawsuits.


You said it's "inferior value in every way". I never said it didn't have deficiencies. My point was just that there are some notable advantages it has, which make it not inferior in every way.


If we're talking about the Orange Pi 5 Plus, that costs well over $100. Talk about comparing Raspberries to Oranges...


Actually, Orange Pi 5 is now offering up to 32 GB.


Raspberry Pi didn't use 40 nm since 3. Version 5 reportedly uses 16 nm.


I think we don't yet know what the Raspberry Pi 5's capabilities are, in this area. They haven't said anything about it, as far as I've seen.

And if you want to use the HW encode/decode from the RK3588, you'll have to use proprietary drivers. Not necessarily a big deal, but important for some.


Not everyone needs a NPU or the extra A55 cores. Not everybody can afford the additional expense of a higher-spec machine like Orange Pi 5 - especially if you need add-on features like wi fi, or if you're buying thousands of them for a school district. The fact is that the Raspberry Pi has some advantages, and you really can't make value-judgements for other people.

The Raspberry Pi prioritizes price and functionality over performance. That's the deal. It's not trying to be the perfect product for everyone, but rather prioritizing the masses who can't necessary afford something better.


You might get lucky, but a lot of people have been burned by poorly-supported Raspberry Pi wannabees. You don't have to look very hard to find some horror stories. And no, Google will not always bail you out.

RP's policy to prioritize commercial is well documented in their own forum.

The RP5 main processor is 16nm technology. The RP1 kludge chip is 40nm.

"RP wannabes" Ha! It's RP now finds itself in that role. If you can afford $80 for an RP5, you likely can afford the extra $30 for a much better product.

 

[bit_user]

RP's policy to prioritize commercial is well documented in their own forum.

An authoritative source would be nice. Even if it's an admin or staff member's forum post.

The RP5 main processor is 16nm technology. The RP1 kludge chip is 40nm.

Okay, so 40 nm for the I/O processor. Do we believe that's an issue?

x86 motherboards frequently use older process nodes for their south bridge. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I don't think it's a problem.

If you can afford $80 for an RP5, you likely can afford the extra $30 for a much better product.

According to the article you're commenting on, the 4 GB model is intended to sell at just $60. Again, that might not be a big difference to you or me, but you can't say that's true of all the customers they're trying to serve.

From the sound of it, the Raspberry Pi 5 isn't the right product for you. You should definitely pursue a RK3588 or Alder Lake-N board. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise - the Raspberry Pi community will do just fine without you.

You might think I'm some sort of Raspberry Pi fanatic, but I'm not. I have version 1 and 3, but I bought an ODROID N2+ instead of a 4. It's great, except that the manufacturer-supported kernel doesn't provide either GPU or video decode acceleration. I've been following the RK3588 and Orange Pi 5, for at least a year, but I'm hoping Hardkernel/ODROID releases a board based on that chip.

The reason I'm replying to you is just to help you & others understand what the Raspberry Pi is and isn't. It's not a premium product and it's not trying to be everything to everyone (which is probably only a false promise leading to failure and despair).

 

[jcyr]

An authoritative source would be nice. Even if it's an admin or staff member's forum post.


Okay, so 40 nm for the I/O processor. Do we believe that's an issue?

x86 motherboards frequently use older process nodes for their south bridge. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I don't think it's a problem.


According to the article you're commenting on, the 4 GB model is intended to sell at just $60. Again, that might not be a big difference to you or me, but you can't say that's true of all the customers they're trying to serve.

From the sound of it, the Raspberry Pi 5 isn't the right product for you. You should definitely pursue a RK3588 or Alder Lake-N board. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise - the Raspberry Pi community will do just fine without you.

You might think I'm some sort of Raspberry Pi fanatic, but I'm not. I have version 1 and 3, but I bought an ODROID N2+ instead of a 4. It's great, except that the manufacturer-supported kernel doesn't provide either GPU or video decode acceleration. I've been following the RK3588 and Orange Pi 5, for at least a year, but I'm hoping Hardkernel/ODROID releases a board based on that chip.

The reason I'm replying to you is just to help you & others understand what the Raspberry Pi is and isn't. It's not a premium product and it's not trying to be everything to everyone (which is probably only a false promise leading to failure and despair).

Would an Upton interview Youtube video be authoritative enough for you?

 

[bit_user]

Would an Upton interview Youtube video be authoritative enough for you?

Sure, it would be interesting to see what he's actually said about the matter.

 

[Stu6162]

Looking to use the Pi5 as a solution to overheating Pi4's (I can't use a fan in our application due to noise). For an exactly similar computational load, would I be correct to assume the Pi5 will run at a lower temperature than the Pi4? Given the overall efficiency improvements I would expect this to be the case - but with higher max power and greater compute power - will that stop the benefit being seen.
Should we consider Underclocking as a way of avoiding peaks in heat generation (processing speed on Pi3B+ and Pi4 is perfectly suitable for our current application).
Any suggestions appreciated.

Need to make a decent sized order - but hard to know if its going to help or just stick with the Pi4 (that is still not great in the application).

Will also need to check HAT compatibility.

 

[bit_user]

For an exactly similar computational load, would I be correct to assume the Pi5 will run at a lower temperature than the Pi4? Given the overall efficiency improvements I would expect this to be the case - but with higher max power and greater compute power - will that stop the benefit being seen.

The 5's idle power is higher. So, assuming you have more than enough ambient airflow to keep it cool at idle, there might be enough headroom to keep it cool under your defined load.

Should we consider Underclocking as a way of avoiding peaks in heat generation (processing speed on Pi3B+ and Pi4 is perfectly suitable for our current application).

I was going to suggest that. I've personally seen the difference it can make to restrict the max clock speed. However, you obviously need enough headroom in your workload to accommodate the performance impact.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Beyond what you said, I'd look at cases designed to conduct the heat out to the shell, which itself acts like a giant heatsink.

Here's one that's even made by another forum member. Ignore the part about liquid nitrogen - the case works fine with ambient air temperatures, also. I just couldn't find a more relevant post.

Can any of them cool the Pi with liquid Nitrogen like CooliPi? 😉

LN2 video URL:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbzKM5XxlOA&feature=youtu.be

Here's their website:

CooliPi 4B heatsink info

CooliPi 4B support site

www.coolipi.com

Perhaps @CooliPi can provide any further information you require.

Good luck.

 

[attn1]

The new Raspberry Pi 5 features a faster CPU, built-in real-time clock, better video and a power on / off button.

Raspberry Pi 5 Review: A New Standard for Makers : Read more

I have one, and I am not impressed. I bought the board, the official ugly red and white case with the supplied cooling fan, loaded up the latest RASPBERRY PI OS, and within ten minutes started getting lockups playing with the supplied Chromium browser.

It's still sluggish, and only suitable for projects, and even then, not reliably (assuming heat was the source of my lockups).

I think specs and real experience may not be aligned. I don't think it's desktop ready, and I think most project applications are probably going to work better on earlier generations that don't have the heat issues.

 

[bit_user]

I have one, and I am not impressed. I bought the board, the official ugly red and white case with the supplied cooling fan, loaded up the latest RASPBERRY PI OS, and within ten minutes started getting lockups playing with the supplied Chromium browser.

It's still sluggish, and only suitable for projects, and even then, not reliably (assuming heat was the source of my lockups).

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I do wonder how much RAM yours has and how fast its SD card is, as those could account for a good amount of sluggishness.

I think most project applications are probably going to work better on earlier generations that don't have the heat issues.

Uh, even the Pi 3 had heat issues. You'd have to go all the way to the Pi 2, or maybe The Pi 3B+ to find the most recent example without heat issues. I guess the Pi 400 can dissipate enough heat that it doesn't thermally throttle.

 

[alf550]

At this time Raspberry pi 5 needs a V2.0 that introduces:

Replace an HDMY port with a USB-C Port that supports video output, because if one needs to connect a portable monitor these days that is the standard port. And powered accordingly.

16GB Ram Would be nice.

A Power adapter that can suport the power needed for a Portable monitor+ the raspberry pi 5 needs.

PS I Have a Raspberry pi 4 8GB, and will not consider buiyng the 5 until this occurs.
Right now I can use the raspberry pi 4 8GB as a replacement Desktop Low cost, but it could improve and a small change on the pi 5 would boost sales.

 

[bit_user]

At this time Raspberry pi 5 needs a V2.0 that introduces:

Good suggestions, but I recommend not holding your breath. It seems to me the USB4/Thunderbolt idea definitely won't happen with the current SoC, although that's perhaps your most compelling point.

Right now, supply seems to be so scarce you might have trouble buying a Pi 5, even if you wanted to!