Really BAD tom's article, Take TWO

[darkstar782]

I thought it was an interesting atricle that I could really identify.

You have said the guy didnt know the full situation and that it may have been 'these laptops or no laptops', well I'd submit that NO LAPTOPS would have saved alot of money and made a whole lot more sense here.

They are not using electronic filing, the laptops are not much help in the field, some of the places social workers go these are simply a theft magnet.

From the sounds of it the IT system could have been designed alot better, to the extent that I'd question if there was ANY benefit to it at all in its present form, but alot of Govt organisations just seem to want to throw technology/money at a situation for the sake of it these days!

As for 'oh the laptop came off badly' I'd disagree. I've seen people say here that it would affect their buying decision if they were looking at one of these.

If you'd seriously be swayed after seriously considering one of these, from just a headline without reading the entire article, then i pity you.

 

[Junkman]

I'm brand new here, and I have to agree with ONE thing said... A waste of bandwidth, Indeed!
The whole blinking batch of bellyaching and flaming going on back and forth over this is ALL a waste of bandwidth, and now, I've been sucked in, wasting even more.
I didn't even read the orginial article, if that's the right word. And I don't think I will, or even need to.
Apparently, flaming, name calling, and generally acting like a bunch of prima-donnas is acceptable behaviour here. That's too bad, cause there were many good points made, and some actual contributions contribuited, during all this mess. But it tends to get lost in all the yelling.
Makes a newbie like me almost afraid to post anything, for fear of being blasted.
And THAT, friends, is my message. If this is to be a free forum, for the free exchange of ideas and information, I think it ought to be kept POLITE. And that's about all I have to add, to waste even more bandwidth on this subject.
Wasn't it Jerry Sienfield who said: "Much ado about nothing"? 11 pounds vs 10.4 or 8 pounds??? Who cares!? The weight of all the electrons making up all this forum thread would almost weigh that much. (I know, don't flame me, they wouldn't really... It's an expression)
Yea, TOM'S HAS changed. I reserve judgment as to wether it's for the better. If ANY thing good has come of all this bellyaching, it's this: I signed up just to write this. Now, after I get flamed, I'll change my mind about how good an idea that was!

Junkman

 

[njrpeter]

StrangeStranger - in the beginning of the article, the author talks about how the original system was horrible as well.

"In the past my friend did her job, took notes in a spiral notebook and then came home and spent another 2-4 hours filling in the forms by hand. Non-profit jobs don't pay enough to justify all these extra hours, but she felt she had no choice. When I first heard about all of this, I asked her as you might have guessed by now, "Who designed this crap?""

And he then goes on to recommend other laptops for the job later in the article.

I didn't take away that the author thought there should be NO laptops - My understanding was that the author thought there should have been better laptops with a more efficient digitized filing system.

 

[darkstar782]

@Junkman

How nice of you to insult not only the author of the article, but everyone who posted before you on this thread. It also interests me how you issue a blanket statement to the effect that anyone that posts after you in disagreement is 'flaming' you, when you are insulting and making stupid exaggerations yourself.

If the 'only good thing to have come of this' is that the great JUNKMAN has signed up *just* to write this, then its got to have been worth it.

I'd take issue with your whole point about bandwidth:-

The cost in terms of bandwidth for the link on the main page to the article is 6.66kb for the little picture, and approximately 87 bytes for the text 'Who Designed This Crap? The Case of the 11 Pound Pencil 5 Mar 2006 23:17'

I think you'll agree this is so small it doesnt matter in terms of 'wasted bandwidth'. I doubt this much bandwidth is much of a factor in the entire page size, and even viewing the page on GPRS or similar, this is negligible in terms of bandwidth cost. Added to that is the fact that were this link and picture not there, another would be, so I'd submit that No bandwidth was being wasted here

Moving on to the main article, the fact that THG exists and I assume is not operating at a huge loss, seems to indicate to me that each page and each article generates enough advertising revenue to at least pay for its bandwidth costs. As such, from THG's point of view, I doubt this is a 'waste of bandwidth'.

From the induvidual users point of view, as they only read/load the article if they want to, it is also not a waste of bandwidth.

One could I suppose argue that the only way to know if you want to read the article is to open at least the first page (therefore wasting some bandwidth that is apparantly so precious to you), however the only way this will never be the case is if we vet and modify the entire internet to your tastes, even then someones bandwidth will always be slightly wasted.

I guess the point I'm getting to is that you might not like the article, others do, if you dont like it, dont read it, just leave it for those that do!

 

[Guest]

Just to throw my 5 cents into the ring, too;

I also think it was a stupid article. Smehow I am missing the ole toms...

 

[vhawk]

Ok, so now apparently THG is now the soapbox for the THG authors that don't get enough hits on their BLOG.

Enter article #2: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2006/03/05/who_designed_this_crap/

This provides no real information of value other than the author's personal (and obviously biased) opinion of the dv4000. It provides no real comparison of products, and a great (and useless) personal opinion of how the government works within his friend's workplace.

Really the bottom line is that to the casual reader, this article singes the dv4000, when in reality the dv4000 is a great notebook. The irony is that this author stated that this was a "very good notebook computer" in a previous article, with the weight of the notebook being slightly above standards. Those standards being (and let me know of anyone else has a problem with this): 'Over 4 to 6.5 lbs (1.8 to 2.9 kg) or less'. I guess they can weigh anything. The author goes from calling the notebook a "very good notebook computer" in one article to "an 11 pound pencil." With a title like that, what conclusion is a person to draw about that notebook? I know the first thing I did was open the article and look at the make and model number.

{Cut}

Going back to the original post, Whizzard9992, sorry to say, I think you are missing the point of the whole article. To simply put it, the article is about excessive red tape being 'automated' by someone with no or less systems analytical skills. An all to often seen scenario in govermental circles.

The fact that he selected to use heavy general purpose notebooks is just one part of the bigger picture. And just before you get going again - I own a big heavy desktop replacement HP notebook myself.

Realy - stop throwing toys about a side issue.

 

[SidVicious]

The thing is that the user, a social worker who mostly fill forms and documents on the DV4000, could have done her work on PDA instead, the computing prowesses of the 3.4GHz CPU was not wanted nor needed.

Last summer, I worked for the city of Montréal (student job) doing data collection on the status of every single business, restaurant, café, charitable organisation and what not found in the downtown area, that meant walking, a lot of walking.

All I had to do was to conduct an interview with whoever was in charge while filling a relatively short form, that was done on a Palm handheld using a stylus, that was the extent of my computing need for that particular task, the data collected was uploaded to the office twice per week.

I spent most of my time standing or walking along with the person that I inverviewed, sitting was not an option. It would'nt have been possible for me to do that job if I had to use anything bigger than a handheld, even a 4 pound Ultra Portable would have been too cumbersome and too expensive.

Chosing to replace paper forms with a 3.4GHz DTR weighting 11 pound is sheer stupidity, a frickin' 300$ handheld would have done the job without being an inconvinience to the user.

I totally agree with the author, that DV4000 was indeed an 11 pound pencil !

 

[Whizzard9992]

I'm brand new here, and I have to agree with ONE thing said... A waste of bandwidth, Indeed!

{...}

Junkman

I have to agree with Junkman here, regarding this thread. This thread has become as bad as an AMD vs. Intel thread, with posters nitpicking words and phrases from the article and other posts and pulling them apart like a med student and a frog.

There have been good contributions to this thread, and to those people who have posted, I thank you. You know who you are. Debate is a good thing: it acknowledges a problem and is the first step to a solution. When people start getting offended and statr name-calling, this becomes and advernture in futility.

I'm not arguing laptop types, whether his solution was good or bad, or even whether or not the article was interesting. I found it interestnig enough to make a post about it...

The purpose of this thread was to voice concerns about the article and raise a few, small red-flags:

1) The title can be misleading. Whatever THG is 'considered' by it's fans, the name is still "Tom's Hardware Guide." The picture of the dv4000 still appears next to "Who designed this crap?" Saying that someone is a moron for not reading an entire article is out of line. A different title would have made this a moot point, if that title put emphasis on the contents of the article rather than putting a picture of a laptop up where 90% of the sibling articles ARE indeed hardware reviews.

2) I personally though that the author was wrongly critisizing someone else's work by saying "I could have done better," but provided no REAL information why, other than listing laptop models that are twice the cost of the existing solution (For a non-profit, nonetheless). Again, this is more of a personal grudge because I don't like it when IT professionals critisize thier collegues work, even when they don't have all of the information.

3) The content of the article is more like a personal blog entry than a professional article because it's composed entirely of personal experiences and OPINIONS, with few facts, and very little research. I don't dispute this article being written as much as I do where it is located. Everyone is entitled to an OPINION, but it should be labeled as such.

All other points brought up I probably agree on. The solution sucked. The corporate structure sucks (Unless you're wal-mart and you've got it down to a science). Change is good. I come to THG to read articles. I'll come to the msg boards for rants.

 

[Whizzard9992]

One final point:

If THG is going to post professional reviews, the post professional reviews. If THG is going to post personal opinions, then post personal opinions. If you blur the line between the two then you degrade the value of your "Professional Reviews" and become a biased source (biased being reviews based on opinions). We all know how that story goes.

This will ultimately destroy the THG reader base UNLESS you distinguish the two, THG becomes just another over-rated blog with the reader base consisting of people who completely agree with your opinions or are bitterly opposed and do nothing but rant.

 

[Whizzard9992]

re·view ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-vy)
v. re·viewed, re·view·ing, re·views
v. tr.
- To look over, study, or examine again.
- To consider retrospectively; look back on.
- To examine with an eye to criticism or correction: reviewed the research findings.
- To write or give a critical report on (a new work or performance, for example).
- Law. To reexamine (an action or determination) judicially, especially in a higher court, in order to correct possible errors.
- To subject to a formal inspection, especially a military inspection.

So this article is not a review of some pro-bono process? Wait, it is, with a picture of a laptop on Tom's HARDWARE Guide's home page (or was yesterday) with the word CRAP in the title. Maybe I'm not the one missing something...

I'm trying to make a distinction between FACT and OPINION, so people know what they are reading, otherwise no one wll take the FACTS seriously.

Saying someone did one thing but you would have done it another way in 45743902857 places in an article IS saying your opinion is better.

And I quote from the article, "My blood is boiling." Right. So I guess he doesn't think he knows more than the original consultants. He just has anger issues and likes to make suggestions where he doesn't fully understand the problem.

 

[Rustol3um]

I have a suggestion for you don't come to the website anymore, if you don't like what is being printed. you have the choice as do all the readers on this site. I really think that given the intellectual level of most readers of this site, they could draw their own conclusions of what this aritcle was about. And if THG has changed the way they allow a journalist to write an article then so what? A little personal insite is sometimes appreciated. I think you are just butt hurt cause there is a picture of your HP at the beginning of the aritcle that says 11 lb pencil and you resent it. Time to snap out of it and move on.

 

[Whizzard9992]

of course people could just read an article and use their brains, and odd suggestion i know.

Quality contributions like these are always helpful. *sarcasm*
If I read the entire contents of every article I've come accross online I'd never leave my chair. It is plausible that some people skim articles.

i suppose aaron mckenna and all the other's should have a disclaimer at the top of each and every article to make sure that no one misunderstands what is being said

Changing the title/picture or seperating hardware reviews from non-hardware reviews would be a start. Setting up author blogs for content such as this would preserve the integrity of actual reviews.

 

[Whizzard9992]

I have a suggestion for you don't come to the website anymore, if you don't like what is being printed.

Maybe the THG change isn't for the better. Maybe I feel like speaking out because I feel like I'm losing what used to be a good source of information. Maybe I'm doing exactly what the author that you're defending is doing: speaking up about a problem.

 

[hergieburbur]

Just for a nice change of pace, how is it possible to have a waste of bandwidth while downloading/uploading Anything?

Bandwidth is something that is fundementally transient. You can't store it. If you don't use it immediately, it is lost. Therefore, I propose that the only way to actually waste bandwidth is to not download anything at all. Anytime you are transfering anything at all, whether rubbish or the forumal for the cure for cancer, you are lessoning your amount of wasted bandwidth and its an improvement right??

:lol: :twisted: :lol:

 

[hergieburbur]

If I read the entire contents of every article I've come accross online I'd never leave my chair. It is plausible that some people skim articles.

I just skimmed the article and had no trouble picking up what it was actually about. Especially that it was not a review or critique of the laptop pictured. Strangely, I never thought it was.[/quote]

 

[Whizzard9992]

if someone makes an opinion about anything in an article without proper time being given to it then it is not the responsibilty of the author as to the conclusions they draw

It is the responsibility of the author to present the information in such a way that is not misleading. It is the responsibility of the author, ethically, to show some amount of respect to his fellow collegues by not trashing some implementation he does not fully understand.

It is the responsibility of the publisher (TG Hardware) to its readers to distinguish between factual articles and articles that are purely opinionated.

 

[hergieburbur]

It is the responsibility of the author to present the information in such a way that is not misleading. It is the responsibility of the author, ethically, to show some amount of respect to his fellow collegues by not trashing some implementation he does not fully understand.

It is the responsibility of the publisher (TG Hardware) to its readers to distinguish between factual articles and articles that are purely opinionated.

Is it not also the responsibility of the reader to exercise some critical thinking skills as well?

You sound like a lawyer in the famous McDonald's hot coffee cse "Sure he/she was driving down the street while illegally holding a beverage between his/her legs that he/she would have returned if it had not been hot, but it was McD's RESPONSIBILITY to warn him/her that the coffee was hot and hot things burn."

This country has gotten all to full of disclaimers and warnings to stupid/lazy people who won't think for themselves.

Before you get all heated, I am not implying anything about you personally.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Hergieburbur,

I think you and I just have 2 different points of view.

I see and understand your point of view, though I disagree.

Sorry if my last post came off like I was upset.

Can we just agree to disagree at this point? We're really not going anywhere

 

[hergieburbur]

I have no problem agreeing to disagree.

Your last few posts discussing misleading and disclaimers are just frustrating, because I know how many people out there are to stupid/lazy to stop and think about anymore.

As I said, I have had to fix quite a few "Let's through money at it" solutions, and I am sure you have too.

 

[SciPunk]

Wow, 4 pages of oppinions on this topic. I only read the first page, so these comments only apply to those comments.

I agree that the article was a waste of time and space. Sure, the author's point was true enough, but he didn't offer any useful information. So maybe managers make bad decisions... what else is new? Did the author give any method to making good decisions? No, he didn't. No general rules, no check list, no method whatsoever. Therefor this article was just somebody whining about something without offereing a solution. Heck, everybody who posted on these four pages can do that (obviously).

Did the author go to several succesful IT managers and look for their oppinions on how to make these decisions? Did he do any research whatsoever? Nope, he just told a story about something that bothered him and his friend. Talk about phoning one in !!!!


On a different subject, the producers and manufacturers don't call these things "Laptops", they call them "Notebooks" because they are about the size of a notebook. The ability to sit on one's lap is not part of the design criteria.


On yet another subject, if you read the article you will see that the primary function of the computer was to fill out forms. As such, an IBM Stinkpad w/ a Celleron processor would have PLEANTY of power, good support, and a decent chance of finding replacement parts down the road. Heck, you could almost do this funciton without a hard drive... and just save everything to a USB fob (except that damn OS has to sit somewhere).

And finally, the most assinign comment was from FITcamaro:
"You are obviously someone who has never had a job or are really poor at yours."

This information couldn't possibly (never mind obviously) be extrapolated from the comments posted.

 

[Whizzard9992]

i hate to keep going on about this but you wizzard you mentioned skimming an article? you cannot blame an author if readers are to lazy to bother reading and/or are not educated enough to make fair judgement (no that is not a judgement on your mental capabilites although in this case you are way off the mark and i think it is pride that forbids you to back down)

also for the final time NO I.T PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED, SO THEREFORE NO COLLEGUES WERE THOUGHT OF AS INFERIOR it was uneducated managers who railtracked an idea into being.

Not really interested in arguing at this point. I made my points: you can agree or disagree. Opinions are welcome, but I don't care at all to get into a pissing contest about it.

 

[CCanadian_Bacon]

Wow i'm surprised how far this article discussion has dragged on to the point of disgust.

This discussion was started due to how a reader felt towards a writers opinion about a laptop which WASN'T the case afterall qoute:

HP's luggable dv4000 makes a great desktop replacement, but it's not for busy workers on-the-go in the field.

so could we end this conversation? i wish i were a moderator so i could lock this damn thread 8O

Parlee, STFU you scrawny little bastard i didn't happen to insult you in the other thread. Although you do have a good point :?

 

[parlee]

i dont remember complaining about u insulting me? nor do i remember even talking to u before, i guess thats what happens when u dont care who ur posting to

 

[Whizzard9992]

This discussion was started due to how a reader felt towards a writers opinion about a laptop which WASN'T the case afterall qoute:

HP's luggable dv4000 makes a great desktop replacement, but it's not for busy workers on-the-go in the field.

Not to continue to drag this on, but if you actually read what I posted, I didn't care about his opinion about the laptop as much as I though the article was misleading about the DV4000, with the pic and all. Even then it was a really small point that got blown up in this thread somehow...

As I stated in my first 'roast', a good article provides clear, unbiased facts that allows a reader to form an objective opinion of thier own. This article does not. The author made assumptions where he was missing facts, and formed conclusions based on those assumptions.

www.tomshardware.com has a picture of a DV4000 next to "Who designed this crap?", next to numerous hardware articles. I'm just saying this should have been taken into consideration. If people want to blast me for it: whatever. It's just an opinion. Hopefully after 3 days no one cares enough about this thread to argue...

Since I'm replying anyway, StrangeStranger, I was wrong about the collegues or whatever. I got sidetracked during this thread. It doesn't change my original point that the author drew conclusions and became angry about a solution in which he dind't have all of the information. That's unprofessional and, as I said before, denotes an article based on opinion and not fact. You mentioned Aaron mckenna before: I actually like his articles a lot. It's a shame to think that his articles might be considered biased because this author has decided to make TG his own personal soapbox.

 

[Whizzard9992]

i dont remember complaining about u insulting me? nor do i remember even talking to u before, i guess thats what happens when u dont care who ur posting to

CCanadian_Bacon is probably hergieburbur, based on his last comment and sudden interest in a 4 page post...