Red List, Trophy and Anathema

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <etherial@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
> I don't care what the reasoning is. I just want to know what it is.

Trophies are for (D) action burnings and combat burnings.

They shouldn't be for diablerie, as noted already.

But that was too much unnecessary complication (and too stifling
as well), so diablerie was accepted (and made explicit in an
attempt to avoid having people wonder about it).

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:31:38 -0600, Colin McGuigan
<maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote:

>Morgan Vening wrote:
>> As an additional, when exactly does wounding happen? As the last act
>> of Combat, or a state-based effect after combat? Namely, would
>> Amaranth still permit a Trophy? I'd think yes, but some of the timing
>> issues have had me scratching my head (Anathema/Cryptic Mission not
>> gaining it, or Anathema/Amaranth or Anathema/Agg/Decapitate), that I'd
>> figure I'd ask.
>
>Nit: Cryptic Mission doesn't trigger Anathema. Not in combat.

Right, but why does reducing him to zero blood in combat generate, but
reducing him not in combat, not? Why does diablerizing with Amaranth
do it, but diablerizing without combat, not? Little techniwierdos.

>Amaranth and (superior) Decapitate would trigger it; they're combat
>cards, ergo, you have to be in combat to play them.

Anathema
Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card
on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero
blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling
the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity.

I don't see how. Neither reduce the vampire to zero blood, and that
seems to be the trigger. the burning, and the gaining of the pool, as
written, work off that. Again, techniwierdos. All games have them, to
get around "Well, it SHOULD be like this, because that's more
'realistic'.".

Morgan Vening

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:09:48 +1100, Morgan Vening
<morgan@optusnet.com.au> scrawled:

>On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:31:38 -0600, Colin McGuigan
><maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote:
>
>>Morgan Vening wrote:
>>> As an additional, when exactly does wounding happen? As the last act
>>> of Combat, or a state-based effect after combat? Namely, would
>>> Amaranth still permit a Trophy? I'd think yes, but some of the timing
>>> issues have had me scratching my head (Anathema/Cryptic Mission not
>>> gaining it, or Anathema/Amaranth or Anathema/Agg/Decapitate), that I'd
>>> figure I'd ask.
>>
>>Nit: Cryptic Mission doesn't trigger Anathema. Not in combat.
>
>Right, but why does reducing him to zero blood in combat generate, but
>reducing him not in combat, not? Why does diablerizing with Amaranth
>do it, but diablerizing without combat, not? Little techniwierdos.
>
>>Amaranth and (superior) Decapitate would trigger it; they're combat
>>cards, ergo, you have to be in combat to play them.
>
>Anathema
>Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card
>on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero
>blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling
>the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity.
>
>I don't see how. Neither reduce the vampire to zero blood, and that
>seems to be the trigger.

i think when colin said 'trigger it', the 'it' he was referring to was
Trophy, not Anathema.

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

salem wrote:
> i think when colin said 'trigger it', the 'it' he was referring to was
> Trophy, not Anathema.

Yes. Sorry for the confusion.

--Colin McGuigan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:52:01 +1100, salem
<salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>> As an additional, when exactly does wounding happen? As the last act
>>>> of Combat, or a state-based effect after combat? Namely, would
>>>> Amaranth still permit a Trophy? I'd think yes, but some of the timing
>>>> issues have had me scratching my head (Anathema/Cryptic Mission not
>>>> gaining it, or Anathema/Amaranth or Anathema/Agg/Decapitate), that I'd
>>>> figure I'd ask.
>>>
>>>Nit: Cryptic Mission doesn't trigger Anathema. Not in combat.
>>
>>Right, but why does reducing him to zero blood in combat generate, but
>>reducing him not in combat, not? Why does diablerizing with Amaranth
>>do it, but diablerizing without combat, not? Little techniwierdos.
>>
>>>Amaranth and (superior) Decapitate would trigger it; they're combat
>>>cards, ergo, you have to be in combat to play them.
>>
>>Anathema
>>Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card
>>on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero
>>blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling
>>the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity.
>>
>>I don't see how. Neither reduce the vampire to zero blood, and that
>>seems to be the trigger.
>
>i think when colin said 'trigger it', the 'it' he was referring to was
>Trophy, not Anathema.

Ahh, fair enough. I was just meaning techniwierdos in general. The
Anathema one came to mind when I was trying to figure out how to work
my Brujah Prince Intercept deck, and found the technicalities
surrounding Anathema to be quite counterintuitive.

Morgan Vening

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 10 Feb 2005 06:27:05 -0800, <jnewquist@difsol.com> wrote:

> In other words, the rule could have had three cases (diablerie, burn in
> combat, burn as (D) action). Instead it has two (burn in combat, burn
> as (D) action). The idea was probably that hunting down and destroying
> a Red List minion or defeating them in glorious combat were the ways to
> gain trophies, and sometimes this includes diablerie.

Well said. The active effort of hunting down the vampire is a good point.
It's not flawless, as combat can occur when blocking or being blocked,
but it goes as far an RPG parallel should IMHO.

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

[Wes]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"LSJ" <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote
>
> And remember that in the RPG, diablerizing a Red List gets you
> only one reward: a place on the Red List yourself.
>
> Sending a Red List to Final Death is OK. Taking his powerful
> blood to yourself makes you a threat, just as he was.

Hmm, I think this may be wrong, Scott. I believe diablerizing a Red List
vampire (or a Bloodhunted vampire in general) is an exception to the rule
against Camarilla diablerie.

I know that one of the reasons that other vampires join the hunt is that
it's the one chance they can get to diablerize another vampire without being
prosecuted.

Or does this vary by domain? It's been a few years.

Kind of irrelevant to your argument, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

Cheers,
WES

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Hmm, I think this may be wrong, Scott. I believe diablerizing a Red List
> vampire (or a Bloodhunted vampire in general) is an exception to the rule
> against Camarilla diablerie.
>

Not exactly.

> I know that one of the reasons that other vampires join the hunt is that
> it's the one chance they can get to diablerize another vampire without being
> prosecuted.
>

That's correct. If you really want the generation or the disciplines, they
will Emrace a vampire of equivalent generation for you to Diablerize. You
need look no further than what went on between Tremere and Goratrix to
know that Diablerie of a Red List vampire does not necessarily end the
threat.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:09:50 -0500, "Wes" <ghost@NYETSPAMmnsi.net>
wrote:

>"LSJ" <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote
>>
>> And remember that in the RPG, diablerizing a Red List gets you
>> only one reward: a place on the Red List yourself.
>>
>> Sending a Red List to Final Death is OK. Taking his powerful
>> blood to yourself makes you a threat, just as he was.
>
>Hmm, I think this may be wrong, Scott. I believe diablerizing a Red List
>vampire (or a Bloodhunted vampire in general) is an exception to the rule
>against Camarilla diablerie.
>I know that one of the reasons that other vampires join the hunt is that
>it's the one chance they can get to diablerize another vampire without being
>prosecuted.
>Or does this vary by domain? It's been a few years.
>Kind of irrelevant to your argument, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

As far as I remember, the right to diablerize a Red List vampire is
granted in a case-by-case basis when the hunt begins - hence the
trophy for 'sanctioned diablerie' mentioned in the Quarterly's
article. But free diablerie is not a norm in regard to the Red Listers
(that is more usual on local Blood Hunts, unless explicit proihibited.
These often involve lesser vampires than the Red Listers, and provide
less risks of a given vampire becoming overpowered).

I have the impression that Valerius Maior was included in the List
exactly because of that. He is a former Alastor who diablerized one or
two Red List targets he encountered. Have to flip through the Gehenna
book to check the details, though.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Wes wrote:
> "LSJ" <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote
>
>>And remember that in the RPG, diablerizing a Red List gets you
>>only one reward: a place on the Red List yourself.
>>
>>Sending a Red List to Final Death is OK. Taking his powerful
>>blood to yourself makes you a threat, just as he was.
>
>
> Hmm, I think this may be wrong, Scott. I believe diablerizing a Red List
> vampire (or a Bloodhunted vampire in general) is an exception to the rule
> against Camarilla diablerie.
>
> I know that one of the reasons that other vampires join the hunt is that
> it's the one chance they can get to diablerize another vampire without being
> prosecuted.
>
> Or does this vary by domain? It's been a few years.
>
> Kind of irrelevant to your argument, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

Well, in designing the set, I took the novel approach of reading
the source material first. 🙂

"The sureset way to become an Anathema is to commit diablerie on one".
[KMW p12]

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <cuibeu025qc@enews2.newsguy.com>, Wes
<ghost@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> writes:
>"LSJ" <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote .
>>
>> Well, in designing the set, I took the novel approach of reading
>> the source material first. 🙂
>
>I want your job. Can I have your job?

I can pay you one shiny penny a week to be a hatstand, if it'll help.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/