News Reddit reportedly selling its users' content to an AI company for $60 million per year

Status
Not open for further replies.
"Creators" never own their content. The platforms do.

If you have a problem with that, then good luck raising the few dozen million dollars you'll need to get regulatory approval to start your own server farm. I hear the strict environmental regulations big tech keeps pushing can be a real challenge for startups to navigate.

But it will be worth it in the end when you finally have a place you can freely post your personal pictures and tell people what you *really* think.
 
I don't really mind if my github projects are being used to train AI. I opensourced that code for the benefit of others, so I don't care too much whether they benefit by using it directly, or via an AI service of some kind.

I sure hope nobody is using posts from these forums to train AI models...
: O

Actually, I think the posts marked "Best Answer" might not be a terrible way to educate an AI about general PC troubleshooting, but even those aren't consistently great. For sure, I'd filter out the rest of the posts...
 
"Creators" never own their content. The platforms do.

If you have a problem with that, then good luck raising the few dozen million dollars you'll need to get regulatory approval to start your own server farm. I hear the strict environmental regulations big tech keeps pushing can be a real challenge for startups to navigate.
...
That is not correct. I.e. Taylor Swift songs are not YouTube's (/Google's/Alphabet's) property. The terms and conditions of such sites, usually stipulate some details about what licence the creator gives to YouTube. In this case in details, see: https://www.youtube.com/t/terms#27dc3bf5d9

But yeah, if there is something, such as in the case of Reddit, a creator does not want, then they sure do not have to use it. And it actually isn't that difficult to set up some hosting - the exposure is then a bit different topic though.
 
Given the nature of much of the hosted content, I question what of value the models will "learn".
In my view, there is great diversity between "subreddits" (subforums) on Reddit. Some are mostly silly, others are very serious. Different ones have different rules of conduct, and different tones.

I would question the value of the posts as is though. There would need to be some kind of filter, perhaps based on an already highly trained model, to even start understanding how to train on forum posts.
 
Last edited:
"Creators" never own their content. The platforms do.
AFAIK, international copyright laws dictate that both the web site and the user owns copyright on each post. Neither can decide for the other what the other does with their copy of a post.
I'm allowed to collect my Reddit posts, and sell e.g. printed books with them if I want. But so is Reddit.

... Unless a post consists of something that was already under copyright owned by someone else, say: song lyrics, an image, a video, etc.
 
AFAIK, international copyright laws dictate that both the web site and the user owns copyright on each post. Neither can decide for the other what the other does with their copy of a post.
I'm allowed to collect my Reddit posts, and sell e.g. printed books with them if I want. But so is Reddit.

... Unless a post consists of something that was already under copyright owned by someone else, say: song lyrics, an image, a video, etc.

The law in any country could say anything about anything... But at the end of the day, the platforms operate outside of geographical borders, set the rules, and in-effect do whatever they want.

More importantly to my point, the creators simply do not exist without the platform. For %99.999+ of people the platform is the kingmaker. Maybe someone with major diversified connections with old-media publishers like a Taylor Swift could survive on some level if Apple decided to remove her albums from iTunes or if her music videos were demonetized on YouTube . But would she sell nearly as many concert tickets if even one of the biggest news aggregators decided to stop promoting her brand with their 10+ stories a day in everybody's feeds? I'm not so sure. Maybe, but that would at least result in way fewer people talking about her.
If Mr.Beast had his YouTube account banned he could probably walk into any TV broadcaster and get signed to a multi-season deal hosting a primetime game show, or something. He has major broad-appeal celebrity.

But for the rest of us? We're dead.

The creators have the choice between consenting to give the platform anything they want, say what the platform wants, do what what the platform wants, think how (you hope) the platform wants you to think, give them any cut of ad revenue that the platform automatically keeps. They want a 30% cut of a fan's direct donation just to flash an image or change the color of some text? Awesome, take it! They deserve it! Please take more!
As a creator you choose do this.... or you will be de-platformed and be replaced tomorrow with the next disposable creator willing to play by the ever-changing rules and work for free.
If you lose your account or even just lose priority listing in people's feeds, that's equivalent to throwing years or even a life's worth of work directly into the trash. The fans won't/can't find you again. An entire career could be gone overnight. So it's not really a choice, it's an offer they cant refuse.
Trying to find a way to make money as a creator feels like being a background extra in the Godfather.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CorpRebel
But for the rest of us? We're dead.
In fairness, you should disclose that you're speaking as a disgruntled, ex-creator.

I think you have some legit complaints about platforms' algorithms and some of the ways they exploit creators. In other parts, you post sounds quite paranoid. Platforms are not psi-ops campaigns. They don't have a narrative they want you to push, but they are businesses that want to maximize profits, while steering clear of controversy, illegal content, copyright infringements, etc.

Basically, it's a lot more banal and a lot less nefarious than you make it sound. Yes, there are horror stories of content moderation gone horribly wrong, but they're the exception and not the norm. There are also plenty of reasonable explanations for how they get these things wrong that don't involve conspiracies or the like.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TJ Hooker
In fairness, you should disclose that you're speaking as a disgruntled, ex-creator.

I think you have some legit complaints about platforms' algorithms and some of the ways they exploit creators. In other parts, you post sounds quite paranoid. Platforms are not psi-ops campaigns. They don't have a narrative they want you to push, but they are businesses that want to maximize profits, while steering clear of controversy, illegal content, copyright infringements, etc.

Basically, it's a lot more banal and a lot less nefarious than you make it sound. Yes, there are horror stories of content moderation gone horribly wrong, but they're the exception and not the norm. There are also plenty of reasonable explanations for how they get these things wrong that don't involve conspiracies or the like.

Personally, I believe that the only difference between Elon Musk and his other industry peers, is that his peers don't spend all day tweeting about what they're doing.

In the very least, these platforms are in no way neutral. Companies are led by people who have their own personal opinions, but lets ignore that. Even if the position is as simple as "Go click on the ads" and the censorship is "Everybody must use the exact language standards of a daytime toothpaste commercial" - Those community standards are still a structure specifically designed to control what people do and say. It's not paranoid to read what's spelt out in the terms of service.
The word narrative makes my skin crawl. It's a weighted weasel word. But to my point: narratives created to sell products are still narratives. The top of the best selling results for marketing/sales books on Amazon is titled "The Story Selling method". It's a trendy buzzword.
But story selling is probably a different definition of narrative. In this case I would say company culture, or more specifically community standards applied to the non-employee members of the company (aka creators). Every ad supported platform will design their standards to, at a minimum, sell ads. They all push this very hard. No disagreement here that companies primarily want money.

It really does affect what you say- which affects how you think about things. It can take you from "there is something bad that needs to be discussed and fixed" to "we have to treat almost everything as equally acceptable", or it can take you to "I really need to go as hard in one direction as possible, because that's what sells" - it depends on what works for the platform.
Content is product and every business will control the quality of their product. I don't think that part is controversial. But the carrot and stick methods used to control quality messes with peoples heads, and it's done on purpose. "To sell ads" is still a purpose.
Any account and its related business can be deleted or hacked in an instant, with no recourse whatsoever. People are under a lot of pressure.

But anyways, the more relevant rant here is that you don't own anything you post publicly to any social media platform, and we've all known that for a long time. I think it was maybe 15 years ago people were mad that Facebook updated their TOS to retroactively give themselves the right to use any previously posted photos in ads. Maybe 10 years ago people were mad because Google decided they could read your emails (and also that they owned the content of those emails). Was it 5 years ago everyone was mad when they found out that secret voice recordings from digital assistants were being handed over to 3rd parties to train voice recognition algorithms? That seems like a pretty close analog to selling off posts to trail AI. But who knows the timelines anymore. It's all become a mush and these things have gotten hard to look up.
Reddit might stop temporarily, and then they'll start doing it again when everybody stops caring. Old hat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bit_user
60 million $$$ per year??

I really doubt there is a single social platform whose content is worth a pitiful fraction of that.

Well maybe LinkedIn or similar, but even that's a stretch, especially lately.
 
60 million $$$ per year??

I really doubt there is a single social platform whose content is worth a pitiful fraction of that.
Maybe platforms with pictures and videos. Reddit is still text-only, no?

Even if you can embed other media types in your posts, wouldn't you still have to host it somewhere else? In that case, the actual hosting platform would be the one who controls that media.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PEnns
Maybe platforms with pictures and videos. Reddit is still text-only, no?

Even if you can embed other media types in your posts, wouldn't you still have to host it somewhere else? In that case, the actual hosting platform would be the one who controls that media.
You can upload images/video for a post that become directly hosted by reddit. Although many posts are still just links to a 3rd party site (e.g. imgur, YouTube, etc).
 
  • Like
Reactions: bit_user
Status
Not open for further replies.