Religious Magic -- Days of Strength & Weakness

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I'm attempting to define times when the magic of a particular religion is
easier or harder, along the lines of "Holy Days" in GURPS Religion. I want
the benefits and penalties to roughly balance out. I've run into two snags.

The Festival of Departure is a day of magical strength. It celebrates the
last day that long distance travel is possible before winter closes the roads
down. The problem is that it comes at different times in different areas and
a magical priest could, in theory, travel south to extend the period of
strength. Matching it with a moving period of weakness makes the problem
worse as a magical priest could then move to reduce the period of weakness.
How can I balance this out?

Another period of strength is during solar and lunar eclipses. How long would
a period of weakness need to be to balance this out, and what sort of thing
might be appropriate?

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
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"Jefferson" <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:41f96188$0$205$75868355@news.frii.net...
> I'm attempting to define times when the magic of a particular religion is
> easier or harder, along the lines of "Holy Days" in GURPS Religion. I
> want the benefits and penalties to roughly balance out. I've run into two
> snags.
>
> The Festival of Departure is a day of magical strength. It celebrates the
> last day that long distance travel is possible before winter closes the
> roads down. The problem is that it comes at different times in different
> areas and a magical priest could, in theory, travel south to extend the
> period of strength. Matching it with a moving period of weakness makes
> the problem worse as a magical priest could then move to reduce the period
> of weakness. How can I balance this out?

I guess it depends on what sort of things go on in your campaigns. In my
campaigns, it is unlikely that it would do any good for the priest to move
south to maintain his day of strength, because chances are that it would
rarely be in the direction that he had things to do, or the things he had to
do would delay him or her.

But if you're worried about it, you could just say "you only get one day of
strength, started where you are when the day arrives."
>
> Another period of strength is during solar and lunar eclipses. How long
> would a period of weakness need to be to balance this out, and what sort
> of thing might be appropriate?
>
How often do these occur in your campaign? I think on earth, the effect
would be so rare that it wouldn't be worth worrying about.

> Jefferson
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
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Scooter the mighty wrote:
> "Jefferson" <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:41f96188$0$205$75868355@news.frii.net...
>
>>I'm attempting to define times when the magic of a particular religion is
>>easier or harder, along the lines of "Holy Days" in GURPS Religion. I
>>want the benefits and penalties to roughly balance out. I've run into two
>>snags.
>>
>>The Festival of Departure is a day of magical strength. It celebrates the
>>last day that long distance travel is possible before winter closes the
>>roads down. The problem is that it comes at different times in different
>>areas and a magical priest could, in theory, travel south to extend the
>>period of strength. Matching it with a moving period of weakness makes
>>the problem worse as a magical priest could then move to reduce the period
>>of weakness. How can I balance this out?
>
> I guess it depends on what sort of things go on in your campaigns. In my
> campaigns, it is unlikely that it would do any good for the priest to move
> south to maintain his day of strength, because chances are that it would
> rarely be in the direction that he had things to do, or the things he had to
> do would delay him or her.

A very good point. The religious organization as a group might still be able
to make use of it . . . I think you're right, the hassles involved to do
something effective with the effect mostly offset the ability to do it in the
first place.

> But if you're worried about it, you could just say "you only get one day of
> strength, started where you are when the day arrives."
>
>>Another period of strength is during solar and lunar eclipses. How long
>>would a period of weakness need to be to balance this out, and what sort
>>of thing might be appropriate?
>
> How often do these occur in your campaign? I think on earth, the effect
> would be so rare that it wouldn't be worth worrying about.

Same as on our world, averaging about 2 hours per year. This isn't a lot, but
it isn't trivial either.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

You don't think 2 hours a year is trivial? I do, unless you're talking
about god-like powers during those 2 hours, or abilities that can only
be summoned during those two hours that have long lasting effects.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Scooter the Mighty wrote:

> You don't think 2 hours a year is trivial? I do, unless you're talking
> about god-like powers during those 2 hours, or abilities that can only
> be summoned during those two hours that have long lasting effects.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Casting permanent spells in 1/2 the
normal time, summoning divine servants who can stick around after the period
is over, and a bunch of other things as well.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Jefferson wrote:

> I'm attempting to define times when the magic of a particular religion
> is easier or harder, along the lines of "Holy Days" in GURPS Religion.
> I want the benefits and penalties to roughly balance out. I've run into
> two snags.
>
> The Festival of Departure is a day of magical strength. It celebrates
> the last day that long distance travel is possible before winter closes
> the roads down. The problem is that it comes at different times in
> different areas and a magical priest could, in theory, travel south to
> extend the period of strength.

It could be a festival day that no longer has an exact connection with
the end of travel; eg. the festival would be the last full moon of
Autumn, even though travel may not be impaired for a few more weeks in
the warmer areas, and may already be done in colder ones.

> Another period of strength is during solar and lunar eclipses. How long
> would a period of weakness need to be to balance this out, and what sort
> of thing might be appropriate?

Make religious rituals to make use of these periods.
"The eclipse is coming my son; remember to abstain from spells, meat,
and use of the letter "e" for the rest of the week."

> Jefferson

Tom A.
Fat Tuesdeeeee - the day before the fast before the equinox.
 
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Scooter the Mighty wrote:
> You don't think 2 hours a year is trivial? I do, unless you're talking
> about god-like powers during those 2 hours, or abilities that can only
> be summoned during those two hours that have long lasting effects.
>
If the benefits are comparable to magic used with the aid of a deamon
(see GURPS Magic) it's not trivial. Magic (or Wonders in this case)
could be cast with 1/30th cost.
In conjunction with a very high level of sanctity - for example in a
very ancient temple could mean a crouded house during these 2 hours
because every one wants to get his beloved ressurected, arms regrown and
such. And several dozens of people could actualle get what they want.
 
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:48:13 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>I'm attempting to define times when the magic of a particular religion is
>easier or harder, along the lines of "Holy Days" in GURPS Religion. I want
>the benefits and penalties to roughly balance out. I've run into two snags.
>
>The Festival of Departure is a day of magical strength. It celebrates the
>last day that long distance travel is possible before winter closes the roads
>down. The problem is that it comes at different times in different areas and
>a magical priest could, in theory, travel south to extend the period of
>strength. Matching it with a moving period of weakness makes the problem
>worse as a magical priest could then move to reduce the period of weakness.
>How can I balance this out?
>
>Another period of strength is during solar and lunar eclipses. How long would
>a period of weakness need to be to balance this out, and what sort of thing
>might be appropriate?
>

What's the religion? What opposes it?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Jefferson wrote:
> Scooter the Mighty wrote:
>
>> You don't think 2 hours a year is trivial? I do, unless you're talking
>> about god-like powers during those 2 hours, or abilities that can only
>> be summoned during those two hours that have long lasting effects.
>
> That's exactly what I'm talking about. Casting permanent spells in 1/2
> the normal time, summoning divine servants who can stick around after
> the period is over, and a bunch of other things as well.

So charge points for it as a set of limited access advantages, not
that I'm up to speed on G4 enough to suggest exactly how. If you want to
balance it with disadvantages, add other limitations for the powered-up
time to reduce cost, and stick some limits on the regular advantages.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
 
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:39:34 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>David Johnston wrote:
>
>> What's the religion? What opposes it?
>
>What I have is written up at
>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_main.html

404 Not Found
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:39:34 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>David Johnston wrote:
>>
>>>What's the religion? What opposes it?
>>
>>What I have is written up at
>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_main.html
>
> 404 Not Found

Sorry, the correct address is
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html

Jefferson
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:21:34 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:39:34 -0700, Jefferson
>> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>David Johnston wrote:
>>>
>>>>What's the religion? What opposes it?
>>>
>>>What I have is written up at
>>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_main.html
>>
>> 404 Not Found
>
>Sorry, the correct address is
>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html
>

OK so essentially this god's primary sphere is what a Californian
would call "self-actualisation". Perhaps more traditionally he'd be a
god of knowledge and travel. That being the case, why would eclipses
have any positive effect on his magic whatsoever? To the contrary, it
seems to me that eclipses would be times of weakness because, as they
obscure light sources, they would be symbolic of ignorance.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:21:34 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>The correct address is
>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html
>
> OK so essentially this god's primary sphere is what a Californian
> would call "self-actualisation".

Ah, no. Though that is a good statement about the religion. For Exquaestio's
major gods; Feroze has the spheres of Discovery, Dimensions, and Imagination,
and Demerhaze has the spheres of Absence and Beginnings. They are likely to
soon pick up a third god with the spheres of Magic and Protection.

For more about how I work with divine inter-relations see
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/myths/Pantheon.html -- particularly the
"Mythic Structure" section at the end. Note that, of _this_ pantheon, only
Demerhaze and Feroze are known to Exquaestio.

> Perhaps more traditionally he'd be a god of knowledge and travel.

Feroze serves as god of travel, yes. The office of god of knowledge is
currently vacant but is held more by Demerhaze in her aspect as goddess of
inescapable darkness. ("No ill shall escape her notice, Vengeance Goddess
Demerhaze.") Should Miracradsa accept alliance, the office of goddess of
knowledge is a natural for her.

What changes need to be made to make it clear that Demerhaze is just as much
worshipped as Feroze?

> That being the case, why would eclipses
> have any positive effect on his magic whatsoever? To the contrary, it
> seems to me that eclipses would be times of weakness because, as they
> obscure light sources, they would be symbolic of ignorance.

Exquaestio theologians would say these times are special because they
represent changes in the "unchanging stars" and new beginnings. They are
"events to be learned from." A more prosaic explanation is that eclipses have
always been periods of strength for Demerhaze and became periods of strength
for espiri magic when Demerhaze and Feroze recently allied their sanctity.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:02:34 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:21:34 -0700, Jefferson
>> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The correct address is
>>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html
>>
>> OK so essentially this god's primary sphere is what a Californian
>> would call "self-actualisation".
>
>Ah, no. Though that is a good statement about the religion. For Exquaestio's
>major gods; Feroze has the spheres of Discovery, Dimensions, and Imagination,

Yeah. Whatever. You know this is an enormously abstract religion.
It has no real mythology associated with it, and it doesn't seem like
an apt tool for rulers to teach submission to their authority the way
Confucianism is or Christianity was. It would never gain much of a
following except among people who have no day to day survival concerns

>and Demerhaze has the spheres of Absence and Beginnings. They are likely to
>soon pick up a third god with the spheres of Magic and Protection.
>
>For more about how I work with divine inter-relations see
>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/myths/Pantheon.html -- particularly the
>"Mythic Structure" section at the end. Note that, of _this_ pantheon, only
>Demerhaze and Feroze are known to Exquaestio.
>
>> Perhaps more traditionally he'd be a god of knowledge and travel.
>
>Feroze serves as god of travel, yes. The office of god of knowledge is
>currently vacant but is held more by Demerhaze in her aspect as goddess of
>inescapable darkness. ("No ill shall escape her notice, Vengeance Goddess
>Demerhaze.") Should Miracradsa accept alliance, the office of goddess of
>knowledge is a natural for her.
>
>What changes need to be made to make it clear that Demerhaze is just as much
>worshipped as Feroze?

Well she's female and he's male. The obvious thing to do is to marry
them to each other and give Feroze an association with the moon.
They are worshipped as a couple.

>
>> That being the case, why would eclipses
>> have any positive effect on his magic whatsoever? To the contrary, it
>> seems to me that eclipses would be times of weakness because, as they
>> obscure light sources, they would be symbolic of ignorance.
>
>Exquaestio theologians would say these times are special because they
>represent changes in the "unchanging stars" and new beginnings. They are
>"events to be learned from." A more prosaic explanation is that eclipses have
>always been periods of strength for Demerhaze and became periods of strength
>for espiri magic when Demerhaze and Feroze recently allied their sanctity.

Then the period of weakness is obvious. It must be the summer
solstic.
 
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David Johnston wrote:

> Yeah. Whatever. You know this is an enormously abstract religion.

No.

It is a _realistic_, _complicated_, religion of which only the parts that I
can work on have been presented. It's not a "there's a sky god, and an
agricultural goddess, and the main city has a goddess of its own, and that's
enough about religion let's go" simplistic and unrealistic sort of religion
that all too many RPG worlds proffer.

Where's it's possible to be concrete, I'll be concrete, but that's certainly
not by primary concern.

> It has no real mythology associated with it,

Then you didn't pay attention to the History page.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:00:53 -0700, Jefferson
<Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:


>
>Then you didn't pay attention to the History page.
>

Sure I did. This guy showed up, taught stuff including a philosophy
and a religion, and after he moved on they discovered he was really
the god he was teaching about. But where's the drama and romance?
The marvels to behold? Or at least the origin story.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:00:53 -0700, Jefferson
> <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>Then you didn't pay attention to the History page.
>
> Sure I did. This guy showed up, taught stuff including a philosophy
> and a religion, and after he moved on they discovered he was really
> the god he was teaching about. But where's the drama and romance?
> The marvels to behold? Or at least the origin story.

As I said, you didn't pay attention to the History page.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Jefferson wrote:
> Scooter the Mighty wrote:
>
> > You don't think 2 hours a year is trivial? I do, unless you're
talking
> > about god-like powers during those 2 hours, or abilities that can
only
> > be summoned during those two hours that have long lasting effects.
>
> That's exactly what I'm talking about. Casting permanent spells in
1/2 the
> normal time, summoning divine servants who can stick around after the
period
> is over, and a bunch of other things as well.
>
> Jefferson
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

I guess it's kind of hard to say without the specifics. Casting
permanent spells in half the time doesn't sound like a very big deal to
me. Usually time to cast is not a big factor for premanent spells,
because you can just cast them in your free time and be good to go.

As far as summoning divine servants goes, to me the real question is
what benefit they're getting from the eclipse. I generally think of
time contraints as falling into 3 categories: can be done on combat
time, can't be done on combat time, and taking years so you probably
don't want to bother after character creation (like getting the trained
by master advantage). If you're moving up from one category to the
next, it can be a huge bonus. But if something only takes 5 minutes
instead of 10, it really isn't going to have much practical game
effect. While it's possible that you'll find yourself in a crunch time
where you've got 5 minutes but not 10, it's rarely going to happen, and
probably never during an eclipse unless you somehow cleverly planned it
that way.

With something like fatigues cost discounts, the same kind of thing
applies. If you're talking about a long ritual, you're probably going
to have time to sit around resting afterwards, since you won't be doing
it on combat time. Fatigue costs are not all that important in such
situations, unless you're takling about moving from not being able to
do the ritual at all to being able to do the ritual.
 
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